MN/PE6 for so long time

Ravn said:

Ok, thanks Keegan. I knew that pike can't be performed with a ruler down the back, I just thought that the primary focus should be the hamstrings. Your explanation gives some consolation, because I think that I can still gain quite a bit of spinal flexibility, since I haven't focused as much on that yet.

Cool.

For the record I think that the initial focus of Pike flexibility should be on hamstrings, but once your stomach is touching your thighs in a strong Anterior Pelvic tilt you aren't going to get any more out of Hamstring work. At that point you need to start flexing from the spine.

Ravn said:

You may have a point, but I have been trying to keep a flat back in the pike, to divert the stretching to the hamstrings specifically. I'm no expert, but it is often mentioned on this forum that people will compensate in the pike for tight hamstrings by rounding the back, thereby stalling their hamstring flexibility progress.

 

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong...

 

As I tought this explain the paradox, it was impossible that someone had mastered those Ims exercises with the same high level of hip flexion showed in the videos and instead had problems with the straddle pike position.

You have only apparentely mastered them and their rom with the expedient of using principally the flexion of the high part of the spine but in this way you haven't progressed in the pelvis to femur flexion that is what is needed to go on with the subsequent elements.

I don't think that this compensation that you used and to which you refer to is correct and can be accepted, and your difficulties and lacking of progress are a proof of this to me.

Maybe the ones of which you have read who have done so had however achieved an accettable level of pelvis to femur flexion and the conseguences of this error were not so serious to compromise their training.

Progress update:

I think the feet are at the right height relative to the bar, I just need to go on and touch the bar. A month ago, my shoulders felt like they would explode doing this. Now it involves much less effort, but I've also been pike stretching a lot.

Lots of good information here! Just my $0.02

Ravn I was wondering, I was comparing mine PE2/PE3 to yours. Your PE2 looks actually identical to mine but PE3 looks like you have very little control in top position pushing really hard forward at the end. I do not seem to have this problem or doing HLL. I believe that concentrating on PE3 will help you much more than PE2. Also PE3 is very similar to HLL, more open shoulders slightly and more ROM but same movement.

Again just my $0.02.

Have you noted your hand placement compared with the course video, Ravn?

Yes, Mats Trane suggested I do it. It's just a reminder to not use lats. I'll use proper hand placement for mastery, but form and ROM first.

Just to revive this thread...

I found a little tidbit that is helping me a lot with this element.  The last couple workouts I've come up into the top position, and then done "pulses" of lower 1 foot, pull back up, lower 1 foot, pull back up, etc x 5, then a slow negative back down.  The part I'm having trouble with is getting that last few inches to touch the bar with my toes.  This seems to really isolate my hip flexors and my abs in my weak point, and work on that, and it's less taxing than the full negatives, which means i can train it more than i was before.  I wonder if anyone else has tried focusing on this narrow range of motion at the sticking point?

Update:

I'm moving forward with this, just two months ago, I'd have sworn that it would be impossible for me.

Is the form good enough to begin building volume? Have been working 4x2 for ages.

Rom is best in the first video, I lose some rom in the last one due to fatigue.

Nice! What a huge improvement! I think you're fine to start adding volume, but keep in mind your feet are coming up over the bar a bit which usually indicates using a lot of lats to help you up. Focus on keeping extended in the arms as you crunch up. Well done, I'm envious of you ROM. I'm still working on this myself. I'm also impressed at your focus with that cute little gal climbing up next to you

Your pike position is greatly improved compared to the one in the v-ups video of two-three months ago, you have done very well in this area, my compliments.

For me your form is good, your flexibility is so improved that you look like another man.

Thanks guys.

I'm aware of the issue of the height of the feet relative to the bar. In the first set, it is usually the top of the big toe hitting the bar, while in the last set the foot touches the bar near the ankle. I expect this to get better as I get accustomed to higher volume.

Some of these elements require so much patience, it's just unreal, but it's sort of reassuring to know that the body progresses at its own tempo, and that it will not be rushed.

Awesome progress Ravn. It's hard to believe you were ever skinny fat

Skinny fat is perhaps a bit strong, but I was definitely skinny with emerging lovehandles

MT Nordic said:

I'm less concerned with progress on this one than the others because i really don't foresee ever doing manna and it's not a major goal of mine.  As long as i have good ab workout and improve my flexibility i'm happy.  If you're really concerned with progressing faster I'd spend a lot more time working on the iM for this and trying to get the hands and feet as close together as possible (that is, doing it 1 or 2 bars apart, instead of 3 or 4).  good luck.

Not disagreeing with your assessment, but trying to understand you reasons better, could you share the reasons that made you conclude never foreseeing yourself doing manna? 

strme said:

good points.  feel free to send a news from your future of pe6 here..  how long you will be stuck there with perfect form and IM.. 

It was around 10 months, mastered it this week!

jj, aj belivit. aj em der tu, sun

There are some topics that we have for those difficult ones exercises on Foundation. I just feel this is for MN/PE6, that ravn created long time ago.

I want to share my progress with this element, that I clearly decided when I started that I wouldn't stay with it more than with PE2 lovely straddle ups, that was 1 year. In this almost 3 month period, progress has been slow but steady. At least I didn't have any mobility issue to perform the exercise, but my grip strenght and fatigue have been and still are my main issue. Even though I'm happy to manage 5x3 with no rest and almost no fatigue except for some groans here and there obviously.

I know that going from 5x3 to final scheme is going to be rough, but I feel that I am more close to it than few months back.

Last set of 5.

Hope to see some of your improvements on this exercise.

Cheers family!

Cheers, looking good Adriano! While you're killing time, may I suggest you move your feet up one rung?

I'm at 5x5 currently, but with a minute+ between sets. For me the main thing is that the shoulder discomfort had completely vanished, now it's just a matter of battling my napalm-doused abs. Possibly mastery before the new year?

I don't know why but every time I see an ab exercise in front of the computer screen I automatically contract them as if to support the one who is working out.

Also, cheers on progress. I'm working on straddle up but I am looking forward to leg lifts!

Looking good as always Adriano!

I wouldn't be worried about spending a lot of time on this one, to me it's been hard and slow (lots of time spent with 5-5-5-5-4! ), but then PE7 was conversely easier, to the point that when I mastered PE6 I was able to do mastery on PE7 straight away!

Grip was a HUGE issue for me as well.

Ravn, do you mean in the iM? My max in the iM are just one rail in between hands and feet, but I don't usually do at this session rather I prefer do it on another session paired with jefferson curls when I'm more fresh. What do you think about that? You do your max at the iM on each session?

Alex, has I said, abs are not a problem to me. It's tough, definitely, but I feel more the difficulty on my general endurance and grip strenght. Keep it up with straddle ups! Took me a year to master it, but then I realise it was a time well spent.

Thanks Maolu. Woh, lot of time with just one rep away of mastery has to be... grrrrr! You inspired me to pushing harder on this PE when you posted your mastery! I learn a lot of things in this exercise, but I'm not going to spent a lot of time on it... I'm going to destroy myself everytime I do it, Im not going to follow the scheme except from deload, I'll do 5x3 until it will be super easy and then I will progress to 4x4 and so for.

Thanks for the support guys. We will see by Christmas!

Adriano Augusto said:

Thanks Maolu. Woh, lot of time with just one rep away of mastery has to be... grrrrr! You inspired me to pushing harder on this PE when you posted your mastery! I learn a lot of things in this exercise, but I'm not going to spent a lot of time on it... I'm going to destroy myself everytime I do it, Im not going to follow the scheme except from deload, I'll do 5x3 until it will be super easy and then I will progress to 4x4 and so for.

What was for me doesn't necessarily apply for you!

I'm pretty sure it'll take you much less than me

How much frustration I had accumulated during this PE has been paid back in the satisfaction of seeing PE7 and PE8 being *very* manageable in return (passed PE7 straight away, started from last cycle of PE8).

PE9 instead is a totally different devil, I've got the sensation I'll be on it for quite a while given how it feels at the moment!

I will still contract my abs even though it may only seem like a futile gesture I guess it is like dancers who hear a good song and cannot sit still.

Adriano Augusto said:

Ravn, do you mean in the iM? My max in the iM are just one rail in between hands and feet, but I don't usually do at this session rather I prefer do it on another session paired with jefferson curls when I'm more fresh. What do you think about that? You do your max at the iM on each session?

 

Haha, feel kinda embarrassed now, should've known you could do better!  I like going close to my max, but not fully. It helps with the execution of the movement, I think.

I think in some way I agree with all of you. 

I understand the point of Ravn cause I've felt the same as him. I'm a person who likes to have a plan to follow and put all my effort in. But what happens if the plan fails and you don't have any plan B? 

I have my own share of mobility and strength issues that prevent me from advancing in the elements. And while I still keep doing them to the best of my ability I feel I should be doing some focused work on addressing the specific limitation that is preventing me to get proper form. There are two problems in this:

1.- Spot which is the specific problem that you are having. Many times I don't know what is going wrong. For example in my tuck ups is not obvious for me why Im not getting enough compression or good form. It might be I have seevral problems at the same time: some specific tight muscles, lack of strength in others... Many times even after posting in the forums I don't have very clear what the problem could be, so I practise every single solution they propose. But you can only do so much every day so at the end you end up working in a bit of an 'unfocused' way, doing this and that to see with enough time if that solved the problem. 

2.- Determine how to address that particular limitation. I assume this is easier once you know exactly what is holding you back. Normally this comes in the advices of the forum as some supplementary work you can do with the specific element. Do some of this extra stuff every day that adresses your particular problem and see your element improve.

I have the feeling that many times the forum is not the best resource to address these things. First because you have to spend literally hours data mining information on them to see from all the people that had posted any problem in the same element you're having trouble, if there is any with a problem that resembles to yours and if someone has proposed a solution that makes sense for it. Many times after searching I have the feeling I haven't clarified anything really, so as I said I end up keep doing the element and maybe trying some of the solutions I found in a very kind of 'unfocused' manner.

As I don't like to talk about problems without proposing solutions I've thought maybe including in every exercise possible limitations people have encounter and a plan to adress them (so there is an official common place where these problems are solved ). Like a FAQ on common problems on each element people can refer to.

For example for tuck ups, compression seems to be a problem with many people. For deck squats as well compression and getting your feet under seems to be a common issue. And so on... It could be an extension to the tips provided with each element