how strong can you get without gaining any msucle mass?

[DiTi]

can you hit a point that you cant get stronger anymore without getting bigger muscles?

 

[Daniel Burnham]

Yes. Eventually neuromuscular efficiency will get to a point where gains are small. Mechanically force is a direct function of muscle cross section.

[Connor Davies]

Of course, it can take a while before you hit this point, especially if you don't get the right nutrients.

 

Is there a reason you're trying to avoid gaining muscle mass?

[DiTi]

how to know when you hit this point?

[Connor Davies]

When.. um... when your muscles start getting bigger?

[Aaro Helander]

It is a somewhat general consensus in the bodybuilding mainstream, that a person who has lifted hard for a couple of years (aka. used up his noob gainz) can only get stronger by gaining muscle.

 

Regarding gymnastics for non-gymnast adults it's hard to say, since most of us are so lacking in neural optimization that we will spend years gaining huge amounts of neuromuscular efficiency doing this stuff.

 

Still, I think we get both, I experienced serious growth in my upper back, traps and shoulders when my main upper body pressing movement were static chinese handstands!

[GoldenEagle]

Yes. Eventually neuromuscular efficiency will get to a point where gains are small. Mechanically force is a direct function of muscle cross section.

Just adding to the above quoted post:

 

The only way to "Lose" mass without losing strength is to stretch out your muscles. Other wise you are looking into muscle atrophy while losing strength.

[Daniel Burnham]

Just adding to the above quoted post:

 

The only way to "Lose" mass without losing strength is to stretch out your muscles. Other wise you are looking into muscle atrophy while losing strength.

I don't think that is true.  At least I have never seen any information about stretching that would make sense of this.  Also it doesn't line up with the plasticity of muscle and the biomechanics.  Stretching is kinda like strength: there is a neural component and an actual tissue component.  It is accompanied by hypertrophy at the ends of the muscle, however this wouldn't add strength (to a great extent) except in that new range of motion by allowing optimal sacromere alignment.  If you are thinking that stretching makes the muscle longer without adding more muscle then you are mistaken.  The muscle fiber length is nearly constant across all humans and even  different species.

[GoldenEagle]

I don't think that is true.  At least I have never seen any information about stretching that would make sense of this.  Also it doesn't line up with the plasticity of muscle and the biomechanics.  Stretching is kinda like strength: there is a neural component and an actual tissue component.  It is accompanied by hypertrophy at the ends of the muscle, however this wouldn't add strength (to a great extent) except in that new range of motion by allowing optimal sacromere alignment.  If you are thinking that stretching makes the muscle longer without adding more muscle then you are mistaken.  The muscle fiber length is nearly constant across all humans and even  different species.

Have you ever done a series of yoga asanas, on a consistent basis for a year or more? I still do. After I am done with the series of asanas that I do my muscle are always longer and I usually look smaller.

 

Here is my current yoga routine. Feel free to try it.

 

Advanced Sivananda Yoga:

1. Headstand "Salamba Sirsasana"

2. *Scorpion "Vrischikasana" (Without using a wall)

 

3. Shoulderstand "Salamba Sarvangasana" 

4. *Plow "Halasana"

 

5. Fish "Matsyasana"

6. Sitting Forward Bend "Paschimothanasana"

7. Cobra "Bhujangasana"

8. *Upward Facing Dog: "Urdhva Mukha Svanasana"

 

9. Locust "Shalabhasana"

10. Bow "Dhanurasana"

11. Downward Dog "Aduho Mukha Svanasana"

12. Half Lord of the Fishes "Ardha Matsyendrasana"

13."Revolved Head to Knee: "Parivrtta Janu Sirsasana" (With one exception: I do this while sitting in half lotus pose "Ardha Padmasana")

14. Crow "Kakasana

 

15. Upward Salute "Urdhva Hastasana" (I do this with tops of my hands facing the other side of my body, palms together, while squeezing my ears with my shoulder caps and Feet together.)

16. *Standing Back Bend "Anuvittasana" (I usually go into a Deep Standing Back Bend with feet together)

17. *"Chest Expansion 3"

18. *Deep Standing Forward Bend "Uttanasana"(From the end of Chest Expansion 3 I release my hands to complete the standing forward bend)

19. *Mountain Pose "Tadasana" (With one swift movement from standing forward bend while flinging my dreadlocks back)

20. Corpse pose "Savasana"

(*)Denotes an asana that was moved directly into from the previous asana

Pictures will come later.

[GoldenEagle]

Here is some supplemental reading material for you.

 

Yoga and Muscles [Part 1-Strength]

Yoga and Muscles [Part 2-Endurance]

Yoga and Muscles [Part 3-Hypertrophy]

[Josh Tate]

My guess is a muscle *might* be like a ball of dough. You can roll/stretch it out thinner but the mass/substance is still there. It didnt shrink, just changed form.

I dont know if this is medically correct in the least but it sounds good to me.

[Daniel Burnham]

My guess is a muscle *might* be like a ball of dough. You can roll/stretch it out thinner but the mass/substance is still there. It didnt shrink, just changed form.

I dont know if this is medically correct in the least but it sounds good to me.

Not correct.