Newbie help

[Fryk]

Hey

First of all, I am new so treat me gently. I have tried to read quite a few threads just to get a feel of it all.

I am here because I'd like to increase my flexibility and learn and improve my strength via the old school skills: Planche, lever, handstands, muscle ups etc.

I don't know how I fit the bill. I am 23, 5'11 and about 183lb. Body fat is low probably around 10%. I have always been physically active one way or the other. I did gymnastics as a kid. Being scrawny I started lifting some weights about three years ago, and lately I've tried some CrossFit. Having found this incredible site and the WODs, I thought it would be a good opportunity to get back in to gymnastics for good.

My questions primarily concerns programming.

First of all how many times a week should I do a WOD? I read that 2-3 times a week for 30-60minutes would be sufficient. Currently I am doing 4-5 times a week, and I really enjoy working out, so I don't like the whole idea to cut back, unless it is absolutely mandatory.

How about other stuff on top of the gymnastics? Do I need cardio? Heavy weights?

Just of the top of my head I was thinking about some stuff that I've discovered through CrossFit: Deadlifting, Squats, Tabata intervals, Long Cycle Clean etc.

And in this whole game where does volume come in? - I've never bothered to think about before...

I was thinking something like:

m: WOD

t: Deadlift + Squat

w: WOD

t: rest

f: WOD + tabata squats

s: WOD + LCCJ

s: rest

Best Regards

[Fryk]

I will try to be a little more specific. What I was hoping for in terms of help is really just some sort of program or examples on designs that others have used previously - a template for a beginner such as myself could really help in the startup phase, as program design is a little out of my league, for the time being.

I have been trying to do the WOD, but I am subbing quite a bit - and still I haven't quite gotten to understand the concept "embedded" - is it just a static hold, or is it something more?

I purchased BtBG and I've swallowed it raw - I like the concept of progressions, as opposed to more weight (read: as in traditional weighted work outs). However, one of the chapters I was looking forward to the most - programming wasn't very clear, at least for a dummy such as myself. I couldn't really understand how many exercise (static and ehmm.. non-static) you could do a day, exatcly how intergrated training should be implementated and steady state. I have looked through a bunch of threads and essays, but I haven't really found the answer. Maybe I am just not quite good enough at searching - or the answer(s) is to obvious, however help would be greatly appreciated.

As far as other types of exercises goes I really want to go all-in on the gymnastics, I don't like 50%.

best regards.

[Blairbob]

currently I do:

M: GB WOD

Tu: GB WOD+heavy DL

Wed: generally rest

Th: GB WOD+heavy BS ( though I subbed this for pistols and glute hams last Th )

F: GB WOD

Sa: generally rest since it's my social night but may workout if I'm a shutin. MA training in the morning.

Su: metcon, run intervals, at home workout possibly CF WOD.

Somewhere in there is 1-2 days of MA training at home, basics generally. I consider this more active rest/play than anything else though it will get me sweaty. Sometimes to go with GB WOD is a mini metcon or some tabata rounds or intervals. I'd like to throw some Olympic lifting at seperate times in there somewhere as well. Sometimes I work on some events before the GB WOD such as FX or apparatus, right now just basics versus doing an event for 20-45m.

I've posted on some basic movements that beginners should use but I'll post it very soon. We are just about to go into off-season mode and most of my guys will be doing ground zero L1 strength stuff ala mostly GB. One boy, is a little farther ahead but not much and another is very far ahead in static strength but nor really dynamic or isokinetic strength ( I think of dynamic as explosive while rather when I say isokinetic I refer to strength over a ROM ).

Coach Sommer has commented on the board on his own running regimen and possibly what other programs have in them. I'd have to look them up to be sure. I like to run 1.5 or 3m sometimes or do sprint intervals ( 50, 100, 200 ) or distance intervals ( 400, 800 ) from my days in T&F.

Starting next week, I think I will implement my boys to do a variety of movements 3x a week which will be a lot of the basic strength stuff coupled with the DrillsandSkills WOD's as GPP. I've already used those before with success in a program. I actually like the GB WOD's but I think they are too advanced for most of them as some are little guys even when scaled down. They are also very unfamiliar with many of the movements within a ROM and I'd like to use the first cycle to start introducing the progressions of these movements. I'll post this in a seperate thread possibly just stickying it so I don't keep on having to search for it. I may even do some metcons with them just for variety though the DrillsandSkills WOD's fit this bill and we may even do some CF WO for fun since they are familiar with it.

I think I've actually posted my boy's warmup, workout, conditioning and cooldown before on DrillsandSkills and CF to comment on but I'd have to dig it out and this will be revamped with the spice of GB ( though quite a bit is based on my exposure to gymnastics training in years prior and my mentors including http://www.usa-gymnastics.org/home/publications/technique/2006/8/pdf/GetFit.pdf ). In general we do joint mobility/prehab, HS stuff, hit events with strength stations, do some final specific conditioning (GPP) and stretch. A lot of this is tweaked depending on how much time is available to workout. If I only have 1 hour, then I build it to that timeframe versus if I have 2, 3, or 4 and include moving around the gym, break time or coach blabbing time.

To end strength biased WOD's generally take quite a bit of time much like SS workouts compared to GPP WOD's consisting of intense metcon which are typically way shorter even with warmup and cooldown time.

[Fryk]

By the sound of it, it does seem that there are wide variety of things I could do... The schedule you currently do was something in the ballpark of what I was thinking of initially, when I found this board.

Having read the book or at least most of it, and tried the WODs has made me realize that I suck, hard. And that the WODs are some-what out of my league.

Reading the book you are left with an urge, to do all of the different categorizes of body weight feats, at the same time. Whereas in the book Coach suggests, that the exercises such as planche / front-lever progresssions could easily be adapted to an existing fitness-program. Also the work should be coupled with a great deal of patience and dedication. From where I am standing I don't want to do the gymnastics work as secondary work - I want it to be the primary work out, though not really knowing where to start from.

I am not expecting instant results - nice and steady will do just fine. It is more a case of finding, constructing a program of sorts that can put me down the right path, which eventually should lead to full no-sub GB WODs.

The book suggests that by far the most effective training method is integrating static and dynamic exercises. How many exercises and how often? and should this support a number of exercises done on a daily basis followed by the work-out it self?

L-sits, straddle L, L-pull ups, Levers - as a warm-up / intro to the actual daily routine?

How about concepts such as pre-hab and GPP? - what do they even mean... ehmm... I feel, I have too many stupid questions.

[Blairbob]

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1047 read this.

Most of the statics should be trained to be held for sets of 3-5s till they become easier. Most of the dynamic or isokinetic movement should be done in the 3-5 rep range and I'll say 3-5 sets.

Prehab would be building joint strength and flexibility. Stabilize and mobilize.

General Purpose Programming I guess is just general conditioning versus specific. Basically CF stuff.

[Fryk]

The linked article is good, the amount of insides on how to design is greatly appreciated. However I still have some questions. Mainly because the article puts emphasis on hierarchy of the exercises. I am not looking to do much besides gymnastic exercises, maybe a little GPP and some heavy lifts. Not much however.

1. Can I do more than one static exercise a day?

2. Due to the full body character of gymnastics, there is bound to be a cross-over between exercises. For instance Levers and Planche - both put stress on shoulders, though levers are a pulling exercise whereas the planche is a pushing exercise. Is this something to bothered by? Should I avoid planche and levers on consecutive days?

3. Amount of daily work / times a week. The suggested design is mainly a three times a week split, much like Starting Strength with alternating workouts.

While I can understand this is a good way to start, for beginners - I think that is a little on the safe / easy side since I have been working out between 4-5 times a week for quite a while. Though I am bothered by the possible problem with cross-over see question 1.

Yesterday I did:

5x Super-set:

5sec. hold. Flat tuck front lever

5 rep tuck front lever rows

5x Super set:

5 sec Straddle Back Lever

5 rep Inverted Chin Ups

Finished of with some grip strength training and 10 wall extensions?

Today I was planning something similar with the planche super setted w/ pushing plus another static super-setted w/ another dynamic exercise.

I was thinking something like 3/1/2/1 - Could this be a way to proceed??

Have I missed a point??

[Blairbob]

1. Yes, you can work on more than 1 static a day. Notice how often the planche/lever combos are talked about and supersetted.

2. Not really a problem unless you are too fatigued. Original SSC was for M, Tu, Th, Fri I believe.

I like 3-1-2-1. It's easier to plan for in a week vs 3-1. Today, I might work out, though I might also workout Sunday. It might just be something light. I only did 3 worksets of DL instead of 5 so I don't feel like hiding under the covers today.

The GB WOD is currently 4x a week which probably infers that it is ok to work out 4x a week. Realize that high level gymnasts workout 30-50 hours a week, though not all of that is conditioning and it's skill work. At 4x a week, my gymnastics workouts currently equal about 6-8 hours a week total, which I'm hoping to bump up by getting in 1-2 hours a day of event time when I can schedule it. Additionally I train in MA 1x per week in a group class and 1-2x by myself ( which I consider mostly active rest because of the system and training that I do [some of it is old stuff from my past] ). I run 1x per week and add in a short metcon ( may do something CF/gymnastics like with the boys today ).

[Fryk]

Great!

You do 3x work set on Dead Lift? Any theory behind this approach? I have been looking to increase my deadlift, but my grip is crap. There seem to be a general consensus that work set ( at least max number work outs ) should be kept in one work set. Not that it makes much difference to me, when lifting at 3-5RM more sets isn't really an option.

Concerning the planning:

The 3-1-2-1. Makes the whole 5-number-complete: 5 days a week, 5 exercises, 5 sets and 5 reps. Very easy to remember.

Though I planned a Planche-day, yesterday (090311) I thought about how to cycle the whole thing, and decided that a leg-day would be a better fit, I took a GB WOD and modified it a little:

3x5 BS ( though I think it'll be 5x5 next time, seemed much to easy )

3x5 Single Leg arch-up weighted. ( They don't seem hard, maybe I am not doing them right ).

60 second of straddle L

The Cycle:

M: Static + dynamic

T: Heavy BS, other leg / core work

W: Static + dynamic

Th: Rest

Fr: Static + dynamic

S: Heavy DL

Su: Rest

I was thinking: Wouldn't it be the main criteria to do the important statics on a 3 times a week basis, if not more. Front Lever and Back Lever primarily, but also the Planche - and then just fill the vacant slots with what-ever.

I mean at least for me as a beginner in gymnastics, wouldn't it accelerate progress in every other exercise just to work on the basics?

[Blairbob]

Probably always do HS-something and planche and front or back lever of some sort.

I remember the SS programming does 1 set of DL with a whole bunch of other stuff like BS, BP, and assistance stuff. I was thinking more along the lines of OLAD by Dan John. I usually do 5 work sets of DL, but I've been feeling like such shit on Wednesday that I decided to back off to 3 work sets ( I typically do a light 10r warmup and cooldown set though I did 1 light set of GM and SLDL after the 3 heavy sets ).

I figure doing the GB WOD probably taxes my CNS a bit and the DL just lay down the smackdown on it. I felt pretty bushed today on 3 sets but it's hard to guage since Tuesdays and Thursdays are typically the days that are quite a bit stressful while coaching and also when it's hardest to find time to get a snack or hydrate because I have no breaks for 5 hours.

It also seems silly to just do 1 set of DL. Maybe if I did a bunch of other stuff. However, I'm only DL 1x per week unless it comes up in some CF Metcon.

Fryk, that's kind of what I planned when I wrote my Beginner's routine and stickied it in the Beginner Forum.

[Fryk]

Ok. I always do Dead Lift together with other exercises, maybe I'll try to do a dead lift day instead. I think I'll give it a go, I love dead lifts. Have you got any idea as to what percentage your work sets are? From a personal experience there is a hell of a difference from 1-3RM to 3x5.

If you do HS, FL, PL and BL in one work out then it is a total upper body work out, right? I cannot really think of a single muscle left in the dark.

Do you think that doing these four exercises together, given that they are paired with a dynamic movement, would be too much?

One thing that has bothered me a little, was where to put the HS. I did however consider to do them alone at another point during the day, i.e. 15minutes handstand 2 times a week and 25-30 negatives on another day for instance. ( I can't do a HSPU yet ).

[Blairbob]

HS first so long as you don't overdo it.

If you look at my log you see what reps I've been doing. Typically reps of 4-6. It's hard to guage since it's typically after I've done the GB WOD. If I remember correctly, so far with that weight, I've managed 8r maybe 10 before.

[Fryk]

First of all, dead-lift day is a good day.

Secondly, I have given the whole routine a thinking, and still have a few questions, so I can get the design right. My main concern still is how to make a good lay-out. Blairbob your sticky is great though.

I realize that no one can tell me exactly how to program. Sadly the book isn't very elaborate on the subject, for instance is steady state only one time a week per exercise? - Or is 2-3-4 times of Back Lever a week Steady State styled beneficial?

So the lay-out problem really boils down to: Which static / dynamic progressions to do, which not to, and especially how often.

Is there any point in taking some time in the beginning to see where I am at in the different progressions, in order to make programming easier?

PS. HS could it be done separately off the rest of the scheme?

[Kenneth Manning]

As someone new to Gymnastic Strength Training™, I'll just throw my 2 cents in. I've been doing each of the 4 fund static positions plus static handstands every workout, 4 workouts/week. Currently, this is what my workout looks like:

A1) Tuck planche 6 sets x 6 second holds

A2) Straddle back lever 6 sets x 6 sec

A3) Front lever with 1 leg extended straight 6 sets x 4 sec (alternating which leg is extended)

A4) kick-up wall handstand 6 sets x 10 seconds with wall support + however long I can maintain the free standing position

B1) Upper body pulling fund bodyweight exercise (different one each workout)

B2) Upper body pushing FBE (different one each workout)

C1) L-sit 6 sets x 10 seconds

C2) core work, alternating between abdominal focus and lower back focus

*also, on Tuesdays I work front squats, currently at 5 sets of 5 reps, and on Fridays, Trap bar deadlifts, currently 6 sets of 3 reps

On when working these 2 exercises, I usually omit L sit and core work, as I don't want my lower back/abs to be overly fried going into those exercises

[Blairbob]

SSC is typically M, Tu, Th, F. So 4x a week say for planche, back/front lever.

I need to add straddle L work right before the WOD. Afterwards I'm toast as my abs are typically too fried.