Has anyone mastered MN/PE2 yet?

I think it's come up in this thread.  Basically if you don't build up the technique at the earlier progressions, you will stall out later in the program.

At which point? It definitely does not happen at HLL.

Keegan said:

Didn't Ravn recently make a thread where he had hit a seemingly impassable wall in the MN progressions and it was eventually decided on that it was because he had not correctly mastered MN PE2 and PE3?

I might be wrong though, so Ravn can correct me if I'm mistaken.

Can't say. I've been stretching a lot, and went back to try MN6 yesterday, and it was much better, although far from perfect. Still baffled about this pike compression business. The stretch that has worked best is an active seated pike stretch, where nothing but hip flexors and abs are flexed hard to pull the torso to the knees, switched up by contractions in the hamstrings, done by grabbing the feet.

Well I guess this is the official Manna topic, so form check!

I've improved since last manna video, both form and endurance, but still a long way to mastery. My concern is about form.

If you see, sometimes I do a weird movement (0:02, 0:12, 0:33 this I did correct it) due to my tailbone... I think is something impossible to correct 100% because its form, just like a tiny ball that when I go up is like I have to balance on it... For example, this static position of Pilates is hard to me to get

I have the strenght and flexibiliy to do it, but because of my tailbone is a hell try to stay balanced. Somebody with the same problem?

Even thought, I have improved my active flexibility and above all the tempo of the exercise because I was doing too fast and now I see more under control. I have in mind the phrase of: "you demonstrate control when you can stop at any point during the exercise". Sometimes is correct, others don't, but I keep trying.

Another good thing is now I can do at least 2 sets of 12 reps with more or less the same form and endurance. Ah, and the most important: I'm started to love this little devil

Any advice guys? 

Thanks!

Adriano,

Why do you think that you haven't mastered this? Is it because your hands are not touching the ground?

Nice shoes Adriano! I have been using the same ones after my ankle injury to strengthen it.

Much better than mine, that's not bad at all I don't think anyways.

Things that have been helping me with this have been putting my feet on a table and doing v-ups and straddle ups, and also doing wushu type stretching, dynamic front leg kicks and forward bends side bends etc, no more static stuff.

I don't think there is a long way to mastery Adriano. Here is what helped me a lot : at the top phase of each rep, I maintained the position during 2 seconds and tried to compress at maximum (imagine you want to pass your chest, not the head - to keep a flat back, between your legs). I worked like this during 8 weeks. It improved my active flexibility so much that I passed mastery for MN/PE3 at the end of the first week.

Well, maybe I've been too hard with myself and maybe I'm more close to mastery than I think, but I know for sure that at this moment I can't achieve the mastery scheme same as these two sets (endurance issue, abs burning like hell). But maybe in a month or two I'll be close.

Nash, long time ago I started to not try to touch the ground basically because when I tried it I lost my balance due to my tailbone, and it's not neccesary so...

MattProulx, same to me, no more static stretching, all dynamic (straddle leg raises, ballet stuff, etc). A lot of improvement doing it.

And jaz, I heard you about that, I'll try but to me stay there is a hell, even so I'll give a try.

Thanks guys! After all this time I see the light at the end of the tunnel!

Awesome Adriano. I think you just need to work the reps in and it's off to MN/PE3. Do you find that along with abs burning like hell the failure mode for this is also not being able to lock out the leg ? 

What ballet drills did you find usefull if I may ask ?

Well, another element I've been almost for a year with it, and now is when I'm starting to feel that I'm close to master it, because is funny but I feel comfortable doing the actual movement of straddle up, now I just have to pass the endurance test that suppose doing 5x15 reps maintaining form. 

Any input would be really appreciated. 

And... Yes friends, MN/PE2 can be mastered! It just takes patience and perseverance!

Cheers.

Much more stable than the last video! Good work

You should be touching the floor on every single reps.  Compression is about actively folding the body in half, by only focusing on bringing the legs up in half, what about the other half coming from your upper body?  By being able to touch the floor, you'll achieve even more compression

alan tseng said:

You should be touching the floor on every single reps.  Compression is about actively folding the body in half, by only focusing on bringing the legs up in half, what about the other half coming from your upper body?  By being able to touch the floor, you'll achieve even more compression

I feel like this cue is more likely to cause bending in the upper back than actual folding at the hip, giving only the illusion of compression. If it works for you, by all means use it, but I like to think of pulling my navel to my thighs, or pushing my chest forward and looking up as I tap the floor to avoid collapsing my posture.

trw said:

I feel like this cue is more likely to cause bending in the upper back than actual folding at the hip, giving only the illusion of compression. If it works for you, by all means use it, but I like to think of pulling my navel to my thighs, or pushing my chest forward and looking up as I tap the floor to avoid collapsing my posture.

Based on video, touching floor is required for mastery

I'm not saying don't touch the floor. What I'm saying is I can touch the floor with bad form or with good form. That cue alone doesn't necessarily guarantee good compression. But if I focus on keeping the chest high and the knees locked, bad form will be impossible and compression will be practiced properly with every rep, which is why those are the focus points. If I follow those cue I can wave my hands in the air and still have good compression.

EDIT: Adriano knows this, I'm writing more for anyone else unfamiliar with the exercise who might be reading. Looking good, Adriano, much better control.

Adriano Augusto said:

Well, another element I've been almost for a year with it, and now is when I'm starting to feel that I'm close to master it, because is funny but I feel comfortable doing the actual movement of straddle up, now I just have to pass the endurance test that suppose doing 5x15 reps maintaining form. 

 

 

Any input would be really appreciated. 

 

And... Yes friends, MN/PE2 can be mastered! It just takes patience and perseverance!

 

Cheers.

Looking damn good man. Great work.

Looking good Adriano!

Jon Douglas said:

Looking damn good man. Great work.

So as a guide, you'd say that it's enough ROM for mastery?

trw said:

I'm not saying don't touch the floor. What I'm saying is I can touch the floor with bad form or with good form. That cue alone doesn't necessarily guarantee good compression. But if I focus on keeping the chest high and the knees locked, bad form will be impossible and compression will be practiced properly with every rep, which is why those are the focus points. If I follow those cue I can wave my hands in the air and still have good compression.

 

EDIT: Adriano knows this, I'm writing more for anyone else unfamiliar with the exercise who might be reading. Looking good, Adriano, much better control.

What cue are you referring to?

All I'm saying is that based on the videos, you have to touch floor to count as a rep

thecolin said:

Looking good Adriano!

So as a guide, you'd say that it's enough ROM for mastery?

I would, although id say there are a couple borderline reps at the beginning before he gets into the rhythm of it. I see balance, compression, lifting from legs and torso together. In testing I'd emphasise a little.more work on the balance to sit up fully and being particularly careful not to throw the arms forward (which will be fine with a little more endurance). A cycle on higher reps and I'd expect Adriano to move on, and find the next element straightforward.

That's my opinion; Coachs is the one that counts of course

Jon Douglas said:

That's my opinion; Coachs is the one that counts of course

Always,  thanks.

Great info here. I've been "stuck" on straddle ups for a year now as I've been under the impression based on the video in the course that one's feet must come up nearly in line with one's head. This seemed like an extraordinary level of flexibility required. My reps look very much like Adriano's.

So is it or is it not required to bring feet up in line with the head during each rep?

Not to give anyone a free pass but remember these will stay in your warm up where they can still improve. My MN:PE1 compression is still improving even though I'm on PE:2.

Could someone comment on my form please? I've been stuck on this one for a long time and don't feel like I'm getting anywhere. I'm on a three workout per week schedule, so I feel that maybe I'l just not stretching frequently enough to improve, but I don't know.

Any advice would be great!

M K Mossop said:

 

Any advice would be great!

 

I can see that you lift your legs first, then follow with your body. Then once your upper body is at the top, your legs drop a bit.

One thing to work on is to try and start both movements at the same time. Try and get your feet and shoulders coming up at the same time (or if you want to be really strict, lift your hands and feet and the same time).

Don't let your legs drop as your body lifts up. Try pausing briefly at the top and use your hip flexors to pull your legs up and out as hard as you can.

Try building active flexibility as well as passive. You can't move into a ROM that you can't do passively, but you'll also need to build active strength through the whole motion.  

Here are something you can play with. Try sitting on the floor in a pancake position in front of something you can grab onto. Pull yourself forward (keeping your back flat, pulling your stomach to the floor, not your head). Try and get as deep as you can for a count of ten or so. Then let go of the bar (or whatever you're holding on to) and try to keep yourself in the same position actively pulling with your hips for another count of ten. Then grab the bar again and try and relax into a deeper position, then let go and try and hold yourself in the new, deeper pose. Rinse and repeat.

Cool thanks a lot for the reply. I was lifting my legs first on purpose because that seemed to be what lots of other people were doing, so I'll go back to lifting legs and torso at the same time.

Would you say I'm anywhere close to proper form or still way off?

I also tried the stretching technique described in this video (posted in another mn/p2 thread) which seems to be useful. I think I was placing my hands in the right place.