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ForzaCavaliere

Reverse Planche!? Street Workout vs Gymnastics

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ForzaCavaliere

Hi guys! 

 

In your opinion, what would be the major differences between proposed "street workout" (calisthenics in public facilities) vs traditional gymnastics training? 

 

I myself considered gymnastics as an end goal in itself, whereas street workout really is just preparing the body for whatever it goes through in daily life (which gymnastics itself also does). 

 

I used to think that the quality of work in the street workout was far behind gymnastics, but in a short time frame they've quickly developed and maybe the average strength of street workout proponents exceeds even elite level gymnasts. 

 

I say this because I have seen some techniques recently that blew my mind, such as: 

 

Reverse Planche (skip to 0:37): 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfug6Y7MKE0&feature=share

 

One Armed Muscle-Up (first 10 seconds): 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vFASzKBoJ7I

 

Close to Impossible (CTI) (second closest attempt after Jasper Benincasa's original): 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir4WMCp1vuA

 

These are all techniques which I've never seen even elite level gymnasts perform. I understand that the CTI probably doesn't have a place in any of the current men's events, maybe even the OAMU, but Reverse Planche should've been achieved by them!!! 

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FREDERIC DUPONT
 (...) I used to think that the quality of work in the street workout was far behind gymnastics, but in a short time frame they've quickly developed and maybe the average strength of street workout proponents exceeds even elite level gymnasts. 

(...)

 

LOL.............. Street workout is to gymnastics what tricking is to authentic martial arts ---> all hat and no cattle! :)

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Briac Roquet

A few of them can indeed perform certain moves that go 'beyond', but the problem with that kind of video is that you can never see if the guy that does a one-arm muscle-up can also do a strict no kip no lean slow muscle-up (I honestly can't say if that is harder or easier than a one-arm muscle-up with kip and lean) or if he's good with different moves altogether.

The reverse planche was pretty crazy, but again, I don't really know what other moves that guy can achieve with good form. Maybe it's the only thing they do very well?

 

While it's true that the street workout community has progressed a lot (you do see more guys with good form on their planches for instance), it's very hard to claim that their average strength is now greater than this of gymnasts. 

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Jake Lawrance

They cheat, these Russians drink a lot of vodka, it's the ultimate pre-workout.  :mellow:

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ForzaCavaliere

LOL.............. Street workout is to gymnastics what tricking is to authentic martial arts ---> all hat and no cattle! :)

I don't fully understand the analogy.!!! 

 

 

A few of them can indeed perform certain moves that go 'beyond', but the problem with that kind of video is that you can never see if the guy that does a one-arm muscle-up can also do a strict no kip no lean slow muscle-up (I honestly can't say if that is harder or easier than a one-arm muscle-up with kip and lean) or if he's good with different moves altogether.

The reverse planche was pretty crazy, but again, I don't really know what other moves that guy can achieve with good form. Maybe it's the only thing they do very well?... 

 

 

Good point on not being able to see their complete skillset. I'm confident that if I trained exclusively for a high end technique I could get it too without too much trouble. But is the perfect muscle-up that you described really so difficult that the strength required rivals that of a one-arm muscle up, however much kipping/swinging is involved?

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Redwan Haque

You probably don't get gymnasts training stuff like reverse planche and one arm muscleups because they're not recognized as moves in the books and thus wouldn't get them any points in competition. Also, it may well be that they can do them, but don't do them in competition because they're too hard to do consistently with quality form as part of an entire routine - so you don't see them. I highly doubt the strongest guys in those videos could come even close to performing some of the ridiculous ring routines elite competitive guys do with multiple malteses, planches, crosses one after another on rings, all while making it look completely effortless. 

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Mikael Kristiansen

Good gymnasts are very strong. So are the dudes who are good at calistethics. You get good at what you do a lot, thats why you see the street guys do things that the gymnasts dont and vice versa. Same goes for gymnastics vs. bboying, tricking, circus, whatever. Of course the absolute best of the best like Kohei Uchimura, Chen Yibing on rings and Cai Yong on balancing, will be people who have done structured training within certain systems all of their lives. These systems are for most also the best way of approaching such skils. Still, I see no reason to downplay what people are doing if they do it good. Some brutal people are around and I find it awesome and fascinating that people with no coaching can reach this far.

 

One other very big thing which I credit the "street" stuff with, like bboying tricking and calistethics, is coming up with unorthodox and new stuff. Of course a lot of this is uninteresting to people not involved it, but there is a lot of creativity in it. Gymnastics and circus for example, as much vocabulary as they have there is little innovation in the structure of their technique. The main reason being that the technique is very very developed and efficient. People have been doing all kinds of flips for hundreds of years, but the amount of new things tricking has come up with the last 10 years is astounding. Same goes for bboying. The vocabulary and variations that exist there is ridiculous and new things pop up all the time. In calistethics they seem to play around with a lot of stuff too and thats why there will be occational moves that havent really been done before. Of course the quality varies. You have those who play epic music to back levers and the real deal who seem to be asleep in maltese.

 

In the end it all comes down to the fact that these forms are based on different principles and that gymnastics is a developed sport with a specific system while in the street versions anything goes. Injury prevention, etc. is another chapter of course, but I feel its important to recognize excellence no matter where it comes from.

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Matti Lehto

It's the CTI again, guys :unsure:

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Connor Davies

Okay that reverse planche was pretty cool.  Wonder if he can do a manna...

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Frahebede

 I highly doubt the strongest guys in those videos could come even close to performing some of the ridiculous ring routines elite competitive guys do with multiple malteses, planches, crosses one after another on rings, all while making it look completely effortless. 

Did you watch the whole first video? If not then watch it =) Ð”митрий Кузнецов can maltese like a joke and Anton Andruskhin is doing malteses throughout the whole video (Hes the guy on the thumbnail)

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Sven Ravnstag

Anyone else giddy with anticipation regarding what Coach Sommer's response to this might be?

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Joshua Slocum

Reverse Planche (skip to 0:37): 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfug6Y7MKE0&feature=share

 

One Armed Muscle-Up (first 10 seconds): 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vFASzKBoJ7I

 

Close to Impossible (CTI) (second closest attempt after Jasper Benincasa's original): 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir4WMCp1vuA

 

 

The reverse planche is an amazing accomplishment, but the athlete demonstrating it has severely atrophied legs: it's not something that can be accomplished by a person with normal musculature. You don't see gymnasts doing that because you can't do gymnastics without working legs. 

 

The one-armed muscle up is done with a massive kip. And it's been done by many people (just search youtube). 

 

The CTI video is in all likelihood a fake. 

 

The street workout community has produced some fantastically strong individuals. And the free-form nature of the sport leads to people seeking unique skills to differentiate themselves. However, hypothesizing that the average street workout proponent is stronger than an elite gymnast is frankly ridiculous. Most of them can't even hold a cross. As of about a year ago, Ð”митрий Кузнецов couldn't hold a maltese on rings (there was a video of him trying: he arched like hell and basically just fell through). Also, I've never seen any street workout athletes press from floor maltese to Japanese handstand, yet that's not an exceptionally rare move among elite gymnasts. 

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Brian Li

Well said, Handbalancer and Joshua Slocum!

 


Also, I've never seen any street workout athletes press from floor maltese to Japanese handstand, yet that's not an exceptionally rare move among elite gymnasts. 

 

I think Maxim Ananyev probably can. I know he can hold a floor maltese and there is a video of him doing a somewhat maltese press to Japanese HS (The grip width seems to be more like a wide grip planche and he was piked with high hips at the beginning). It's at 0:50 in the following video.

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Joshua Slocum

Well said, Handbalancer and Joshua Slocum!

 

I think Maxim Ananyev probably can. I know he can hold a floor maltese and there is a video of him doing a somewhat maltese press to Japanese HS (The grip width seems to be more like a wide grip planche and he was piked with high hips at the beginning). It's at 0:50 in the following video.

 

I hate to sound like a pedant, but that's very far away from the real thing. He doesn't hold the bottom position, and he pikes through the hardest part of the press. Still very hard, but much easier than doing a full press after holding the swallow. 

 

 

Edit - in case it's not clear, I'm not in any way dissing these street workout athletes or trying to disparage their achievements. I have a great deal of respect for anyone with the work ethic and tenacity required to achieve these sorts of high level skills. 

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Brian Li

Okay that reverse planche was pretty cool.  Wonder if he can do a manna...

A manna even a high manna would be a progression towards that inverted planche. He can still lack the pike or hamstring flexibility to do a perfect manna though.

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Frahebede

Дмитрий Кузнецов is 18 years old now and last year his maltese wasn't that good but judging by his amazing floor maltese now, he's problably a lot closer to a maltese on rings.

The one muscle up was not with a massive kip, he barely kipped at all and was barely swinging. Here's a better video of it:

One arm muscle up is at 0:18


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJlEmy95A5k
And also, Carucyn (youtube channel name) can maltese on rings for like 10 seconds. Hes never done gymnastics before and his planche is incredible as well:

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Brian Li

The transition of the one arm MU looks like it requires more technique than strength. He also did use some substantial momentum just before the transition with that giant kick and the transition was a jerking motion.

 

How long did you also see Ð”митрий Кузнецов hold a maltese?

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ForzaCavaliere

One other very big thing which I credit the "street" stuff with, like bboying tricking and calistethics, is coming up with unorthodox and new stuff. Of course a lot of this is uninteresting to people not involved it, but there is a lot of creativity in it. Gymnastics and circus for example, as much vocabulary as they have there is little innovation in the structure of their technique...

I'm not entirely familiar with scoring on gymnastics elements but it's disappointing if it does not encourage the development of new techniques. 

 

Also, there seems to be a certain stigma attached to the CTI in this forum? People say it's impossible on here, but there's a reason it's only called the Close to Impossible, and not the Impossible! I'm assuming everyone has seen Jasper Benincasa's photographs of the technique? 

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FREDERIC DUPONT

I'm not entirely familiar with scoring on gymnastics elements but it's disappointing if it does not encourage the development of new techniques. 

 

Also, there seems to be a certain stigma attached to the CTI in this forum? People say it's impossible on here, but there's a reason it's only called the Close to Impossible, and not the Impossible! I'm assuming everyone has seen Jasper Benincasa's photographs of the technique? 

 

 

Gymnastics has formally been at it since 1881 (132 years!); you really expect street workout can teach them something?

It's like a high school math club wondering why the academy of science does not consult with them!

 

Yes, there is the "enough is enough" stigma attached to each new CTI thread that pops up showing the latest new pictures or movies that we've all seen 20 times - nothing personal! :)

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Boban Ilievski

Those street workout guys, although fairly strong, suffer from a poor form. They perform the moves either with slightly bent arms, or without a completely straight body, or they're arching, or with momentum...

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mrpraktic

 

 

Gymnastics has formally been at it since 1881 (132 years!)
 I'm not entirely familiar with scoring on gymnastics elements but it's disappointing if it does not encourage the development of new techniques. 

There are a lot of elements in gymnastics named after gymnasts who invented them. Some of them are today's modern gymnasts.

My question is: How does some element become part of the code? Do you present that element to some committee or something else...? 

 

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Connor Davies

There are a lot of elements in gymnastics named after gymnasts who invented them. Some of them are today's modern gymnasts.

My question is: How does some element become part of the code? Do you present that element to some committee or something else...? 

 

Not sure.  I know the azarian was done in competition, and only named after the fact.  Badass story behind it as well.

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Joshua Slocum

To get a new skill named after yourself, you must compete it in an international, FIG-sanctioned competition (twice I believe). Before competing you submit the skill to the judges and they determine whether it will be allowed (some kinds of skills are considered too dangerous) and how many points it will be worth. 

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Jon Douglas

To get a new skill named after yourself, you must compete it in an international, FIG-sanctioned competition (twice I believe). Before competing you submit the skill to the judges and they determine whether it will be allowed (some kinds of skills are considered too dangerous) and how many points it will be worth.

Yeah, I also tried to register the Douglas 1 through 5, but unfortunately elite gymnasts thought I was just too hardcore and extreme. Shame, would have knocked your socks off, but my hands are tied.... I guess you'll never see em

;)

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Jon Douglas

Seriously though I understand Danny Rodrigues made several attempts before he was judged to have successfully competed fl- Victorian to get his name on it

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