Reverse flag or reverse meathook on rings

[3bears]

Anyone currently posting here who can perform this (reverse fag/meathook) on rings? I've seen a photo posted onSeptember 1 but can't find it anymore...

 

I want to discuss methods of entry into this element and safely training for them. So far, I've seen these:

1) From front meathook, go into fully inverted position and lower/drop into reverse meathook

2) Swing (or slowly lift) into reverse meathook from hanging off one arm, simply

3) From position as if going into back lever, move body to the side instead and let one arm go--ending in reverse flag

 

4) My own, the only one I can pull off--from "hocks" on rope (inverted position with one leg hooking onto rope), bring BENT 2nd arm behing back, grab rope with it and lower self into reverse flag, while  heavily assisting with top arm.

 

The there're bent and straight arm reverse flags. And different wrist positions. I keep the wrist turned away from body.

 

Anyone here who is able to discuss this element and progressions?

 

[yuri marmerstein]

The easiest and safest way to get into this(especially on rings) is to turn the hips out of a skin-the-cat and slowly let go with the other arm after feeling the balance. 

 

I wouldn't play with the other variations until you have a solid reverse meathook static, a controlled lower down to one arm hang, and be able to go from reverse meathook to regular meathook. 

 

Bent or straight arm is personal preference and dependent on body struture and mobility and what kind of aesthetic you want to achieve. 

[3bears]

I see! My thoughts were the same, no swinging into it until not only static hold is very solid but also slow, controlled lowering is achieved.

 

As to getting from reverse meathook to regular one... did you mean going to regular meathook from hanging  down (after you lowered from reverse flag), or going into front meathook through inverted positon (lifting legs from reverse flag to invert and falling into front meathook)--which one is easier and safer way?

 

So far, I'm  simply pulling up from the flag using 2nd arm, to exit. Also, was able to get into it from skin the cat all the way down position, by swinging legs up backwards and to the side (2 arms used though, otherwise it's almost like one armed skin the cat....)

 

I still feel a lot of discomfort in reverse flag static position--I think mostly due to lack of shoulder flexibility this being an intense stretch. I believe one doesn't need a lot of strength to hang in reverse flag on bent arm, as the arm supports your weight like a sling, basically, so I think it's a flexibility/mobility issue...

[yuri marmerstein]

Mobility is often an issue, but so is technique. 

 

Going from flag to meathook is a bit easier passing through a full hang since you can swing your legs a bit.  Staying close to the arm without dropping the legs takes a lot more strength. 

You should be able to do both ways. 

[3bears]

I can understand the transition through invert, as it's easy to imagine the moves (even though I can't do it with one arm).

But with lift into reverse flag from hang...I wonder how much of it is using the core and how much is loading the shoulder? Here, at 2.39 a bunch of lifts from hang into the flag, it just "looks" like shoulders take very heavy load:

http://youtu.be/Em_PNh3g1IM?t=2m36s

Looks way harder than transition through invert..

[yuri marmerstein]

Forgot how awesome that video is

 

She is very flexible and uses the fan of her legs to help a lot with the movement.  There is a technique and a rhythm to it.  You can do it without momentum through the legs as well, and yes the shoulder takes a tremendous load passing through some vulnerable positions. 

 

A spin also makes the movement easier. 

[3bears]

I see!...at least part of this fan movement is very similar to hip key on corde lisse/silks and to a fancy version of invert to hocks climb move, so I think this is something I can dial right, eventually.

I find that rolling into the move on the floor, with entire arm pressed onto the floor behind the back helps a lot just to drill it into the muscle memory...

Was kind of hoping that most load was on the core and back and not on shoulder somehow, but yeah...looks like shoulder is going to take a beating. I had seen little kids with no visible shoulder muscles performing 20 and more consecutive reverse meathooks, back to back...this is one really awesome sequence:

http://youtu.be/2U-iwAr28dc?t=4m43s

[Mikael Kristiansen]

Pulling to flag is really hard on the shoulder. The core doesnt have to work too hard since you can kick. Even if you lift slowly the load is mostly on the shoulder and rotatorcuff. When you have it solid from dead hang, it feels like you are protracting really hard while internally rotating the shoulder while lifting your (right leg on right arm) leg towards your ear so you can elevate the hips up to your arm.

 

Being incredibly flexible and light like those girls are of course make easier. They also use their legs a lot to get up. The little girl there is doing swinging switches which are pretty damn rough on the shoulder if you do it wrong.

 

Learning to pull to it is pretty hard and takes time. First step is having a very comfy flag position and learning to lower very slowly down to dead hang. I dont recommend doing these negatives until you can pull to regular meathook quite easily. Building some 1 arm back lever strength is also recommended.

[3bears]

Pulling to flag is really hard on the shoulder. The core doesnt have to work too hard since you can kick. Even if you lift slowly the load is mostly on the shoulder and rotatorcuff. When you have it solid from dead hang, it feels like you are protracting really hard while internally rotating the shoulder while lifting your (right leg on right arm) leg towards your ear so you can elevate the hips up to your arm.

 

Being incredibly flexible and light like those girls are of course make easier. They also use their legs a lot to get up. The little girl there is doing swinging switches which are pretty damn rough on the shoulder if you do it wrong.

 

Learning to pull to it is pretty hard and takes time. First step is having a very comfy flag position and learning to lower very slowly down to dead hang. I dont recommend doing these negatives until you can pull to regular meathook quite easily. Building some 1 arm back lever strength is also recommended.

I find what is helpful to lower self into reverse flag starting from "skin the cat" position (just legs go to side instead of straight down) and then let self fall all the way down (while never letting second arm go and taking some load off with it)--then, again, without letting second arm go, lift up while swinging legs to side, initiating the movement as if you're returning from skin the cat, but legs swing to side simultaneously. All of this uses support from 2nd arm and yes feels almost like working towards one-sided skin the cat. This way it seems that very same muscles as for back lever are being used, so body knows how to activate them...swinging to front and then twisting to get into flag seems much harder.

But one armed back lever should require 2X more strength...hanging in flag isn't too hard once shoulder is stretched out enough, hun? I think it's important to arch back to the max (that's where the folks with back hyperextension get advantage) otherwise more load on shoulder: less back bend = more load on shoulder--it seems like...

I'm going to start attempts to lift back from reverse flag as well (to lift top leg to invert and hook it onto the strap, for the start) I got to be careful with loading my shoulders as got a small cuff tear a year ago...healed and rehabbed without medical intervention though. Hope that little girl from video doesn't get shoulder probs. When I just started training reverse flag, even though I assisted with top arm pulling, one time got sharp pain in pectoralis tendon area near sternum, really scared me, still aches on and off...one got to train this stuff really slowly.

Do you know any conditioning exercises for this move? (low load) I assume pulling rubber bands behind back simulating the move for high reps should be good...

[David McManamon]

Let's keep in mind that athlete in the video is stronger and more flexible than 99.9% of the athletes on this forum.  Approach side planche with care as most people are not accustomed to supporting their entire body weight with one hand behind their back.  Rotating slowly into the position from straddle back lever or german hang is a good start.

[3bears]

Just found out another way to get into it: to hang on rope, push legs between arms and over (grip can be with distance between hands) and go into this flag, pretty awesome and isn't scary unlike just dropping into it. (on rings, can hang off one ring with one hand, and 2nd hand grabs the strap of this same ring or even the ring itself)

[David McManamon]

Here is a clip of a fairly slow roll into side planche from straddle back lever:

http://instagram.com/p/fiob2DoyhH/

 

Note how strength and flexibility demands on the shoulder and side body change from one position to the other.

[Mikael Kristiansen]

Nice and smooth movement into your flag there. A good exercise is to move back and forth from back lever to flag, alternating sides and keeping the body horizontal through the entire movement. That kind of conditioning moving into and out of the flag position with tension is very important to avoid injuries.