Please help me to address strength gap: lower back/planches

[3bears]

 **the purpose of this question is simply to work lower back with bodyweight exercise, not to develop planche!

 

Hello. First off I'm a woman and I'm tall (disadvantage), at 40 y.o.--recovery for me is different and levers, planches are things women usually can't pull off. I already have unusal amounts of strength for a woman, and overall my upper body (thanks to aerial circus), core and legs are very strong. I have WEAK lower back. I can only hold tuck planche with feet on the wall and feel the lower back is where strength is severely lacking (or non-existant). Same with attempt to press to handstand to wall, back lever now, and same with elbow lever. It is a huge unadressed gap in my overall decent strength. I have literally nil body fat and a lot of muscle mass in my shoulders/lats, so the center of gravity location shouldn't be a problem for this work.

 

I used to lift weights and deadlift--stopped completely about a year ago, as I feel that 1) can't afford to pay for gym subscription JUST to be able to deadlift (this is the only reason why I'd go to regular gym with weights, as my other training schedule is grueling and pushing my tendon limits ) 2) whenver I went heavy on deadlifts, had back pains, no matter how much I watched my form--feel this is a risky exercise for me. So, no more deadlifting.

 

Please, recommend which specific exercises will adress this gap in the best and fastest way (lack of strength in lower back)?

 

My thoughts so far:

--continue to hold tuck planches against the wall (every other day)

--attemp elbow levers every other day

--do reverse leg lifts and reverse dorsal lifts with legs weghted

--do walks down the wall to the back bridge

--continue my attempts at back lever (I used to have straight leg back lever--almost--but tore rotator cuff and detrained)

--natural leg curls (does it really work back?--strain feels only in hamstrings)

 

Anything to add to this list? Aand anything on this list isn't really that useful for lower back? (please spell out full exercise name to avoid confusion with abbreviations).

I appreciate any advice, thanks.

[Guest]

Look up Foundation 1. Will make you bulletproof from all corners.

[3bears]

My understanding that this is entire system, WODs, all of which are heavy training...

Right now, I can only do extra exercise for lower back--this is what I need, to target just lower back, due to other training at this moment pushing it for my shoulders and elbows and I am barely able to recover on a daily basis. (for my specific circus skill work)

So, I need to narrow down exercises for lower back mostly, until I'm through with skill work I'm doing now and ready to take more systematic and full gymnastics training--which I plan to.

[Alessandro Mainente]

The fact that the lower back is one of the major muscles involved in planche is not completely true. I discovered this the first time i attended a seminar with Coach Sommer and my doubts were finally solved during the second seminar and with the Foundation approach.

If you look for the biggest part of the street workout planche, bad planches..bad planches around the world. 

Planche is about push yourself off the floor everytime, the pushing motion is maximized when a certain form of the body is held.

Planche must be held with hollow position . this refers to some adjustments of the body line as:

-scapula depression

-scapula protraction

-lats activation

-squeezed abs.

So talking about the last point, how do you think you can actively engage your lower back if your abs (that are antagonist muscles) are squeezed? this sounds strange of course. but the only muscles that permits the elevation of the legs, while lumbar muscles are relaxed , are the muscles. 

So you need to develop progressive hips mobility to learn how to control the split and the legs elevation with the butt muscles. you want to know how? Foundation series is the answer

[Romulo Malta]

Well, you can schedule Foundation 1, dividing the workload in some days so you don't get too exhausted. The workouts won't take more than 40 minutes. If you just pick one exercise you will probably just tend to have more imbalances overall, and maybe you are already provoking that with your circus routine.

Have you tried kettlebell swings? Besides strengthening your lower back, it can also help with your planche work.

Alex, coach himself said this would help with planche, so there should be some relation. Maybe your lower back is already well trained so you don't even feel the strain it bears to keep the pelvis from falling. For someone with that weak link, the lower back importance is obvious.

[Keilani Gutierrez]

I'd in good conscience aside from suggesting F1 to look into your copy of Btgb and look up the portion on planches and how Coach uses dumbbell swings to strengthen the lower back.

 

in F1 there's a matrix of exercises that will indirectly help you in your process of developing the planche(F series covers upto Straddle planche, it's still unclear if the other courses will cover a full planche since they aren't released yet.) along with the already integrated exercises and mobility to develop a straddle planche(5 sets of 10 sec including the integrated mobility) 

[3bears]

I understand that there's a lot more to planche than lower back muscle,and I know about lat activation, etc.

 

My goal isn't the planche right now--I feel the most strain, fatique and work in my lower back muscles during things like tuck planche against wall, press to handstand attempt. I definitely feel these muscles lagging behind the rest--this is where lack of strength is felt. I noticed my deadlift is much smaller than it used to be as well, while my legs are stronger than before, due to other training--this is lower back issue.

 

No, I can't do Foundation full workouts, split or not. There's no place for other work in my schedule now. I can't risk rotator cuff injury and overtraining. I have strict skills and conditioning schedule with no extra recovery room, as I mentioned I'm training at my limit, and I take this stuff very seriously. I train on high apparatus like rope as well and can't be tired with no ability to exit the element safely.

 

Sounds like I just should do exercises on my list posted here.

[3bears]

PS. The list of exercises in my OP came from research on this forum, actually.

 

Anyway, I do need to target lower back. I had back lever before, but my lower back wasn't strong at all still.

A lot more of it is worked for planche and full lift to handstand, I feel.

I can lift to elbow stand from ground.

 

The exercise I haven't seen mentioned on this site so far is Dorsal lift (like reverse leg lift, but this time it's not just legs but as much of remaining body as one can, as well. Say, for reverse leg lift, the edge of the table/bench/vault is where legs meet torso--for dorsal lift it's where the navel is, but one can do sternum and even higher (then it's like planche already). Straight legs and the rest of the body that hangs off the table is lifted backwards, until horizontal (and freeze in that position). This is from circus training manual. This does work body tension for planches/lever, but still I feel it doesn't hit lower back that much, and more felt in upper back.

Tuck planche work seems to load lower back the most.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

(...) I'm a woman and I'm tall (disadvantage) (...)

 

nonononono, this is not a disadvantage, this is wonderful! 

[3bears]

Well I've seen only one visual proof of a woman doing planche and it was a girl who looked like she's in her late teens and simply built up on her earlier gymnastics skills (ex artistic gymnast most likely). Women don't do front levers... I've seen only back levers being done, frankly (and done it myself) So, I don't set these goals, esp. not at my age and with past shoulder issues. Just don't want to leave out lower back from training, simply, since I don't deadlift anymore (deadlifts don't help with planches in any shape, way or form, huh...so yes, it's all different). When I get overall progress with my skills I'm working on now, and after low-volume training recovery weeks, gladly (and safely) will try Foundation 1. In the meanwhile, don't want to further lose lower back strength...

[Travis Widmann]

Definitely try the dumbbell or kettlebell swings that have been mentioned already since others have had good results with them. Reverse leg lifts sound good too. Have you tried arch ups of any kind?

[Cody Ward]

Lower back muscles aren't going to be your limiting factor for any levers or presses.

[3bears]

They are my limiting factor. As, I repeat, the strain/muscle activation/fatigue I feel the most is in the lower back.

Imagine, kind of like you're doing pull ups, but your grip starts failing before your lats; or you're doing push ups but your core starts getting fatigued while you can still push up some more. This is when you see un-adressed gap in strength. I had my planche form checked in gymnastics gym by local coach, so it's not the form...I can visually see how upper back is way more developed than lower back, lot more muscular--used to be different when I lifted weights.

 

Yes, I do arch ups--while balancing on trapeze. Never done kettle-bell swings, would try them now--The problem is that I don't have a stable place to live/store things and only own some adjustable dumbbells for shoulder work... circus gyms don't have any weights. It's different when you can get to the gym with a choice of kettlebells...but I guess I could use a bag of rocks instead. Huh, I guess Goodmornings with a bag of gear for a weight would work back too!--now I recall someone recommended one-legged goodmornings as good lower back exercise...Goodmornings seem to isolate erector spinae much more than deadlifts.

 

One time, I've seen a neighbor doing lateral raises lifting chairs instead of dumbells...

[Richard Hamilton]

How about arch holds... you'll like those 

[Sean Whitley]

Maybe try arch holds (superman holds) for time. Or if too easy, try them rocking back and forth in that position for reps, or waving your arms and legs up and down in the position. Once that becomes easy I'd assume you'd start work on arch ups and reverse leg lifts. I seem to remember that I felt headstand leg lifts a little in my back, and those can be worked progressively with tuck leg lifts, straddle then piked

[Kate Abernethy]

 ... planches are things women usually can't pull off... 

... Women don't do front levers...  esp. not at my age....

 

[Cody Ward]

Tuck planche doesn't require any lower back strength. So, either your "prime movers" for the planche aren't strong enough, or you're doing it wrong.

Gymnastic coaches don't always know proper form.

Posting a video here for critique would be better IMO.

[Jon Douglas]

I admit I thought of your expression when I saw that comment

[Connor Davies]

Simply put, hyperextensions with a heavy weight held at your chest and locust position (google search it.)

[3bears]

Tuck planche doesn't require any lower back strength. So, either your "prime movers" for the planche aren't strong enough, or you're doing it wrong.

Gymnastic coaches don't always know proper form.

Posting a video here for critique would be better IMO.

Huh, well may be it's "mid-back"? I do understand about lats activation and I was taught to pay attention to this.

I have strong lats as I do a lot of climbing and often without using legs, weighted pull ups, etc. It's not just the lats use that's a problem. The coach who checked my form was right on, as back then I was skipping on lat activation exactly.

 

The whole point is to have good lower back muscles right now though, not to specifically develop planche. If you can see big lats, rear delts and traps, and can't see lower back muscles popping out, the back looks underdeveloped. Can see it with some who's been rock climbers but not lifting for a long time--big lats but erector spinae is not developed.  Plus, no good to end up with weak lower back in case you have to lift something heavy...just a total fitness matter.

[3bears]

Simply put, hyperextensions with a heavy weight held at your chest and locust position (google search it.)

Yeah I see. Sounds like a good one. But this is for folks with back hyperextensioin more or less, isn't it? I don't have it, so my back just...doesn't go this way.

 

 

I found that Dorsal lifts are pretty good too, try lifting your whole body (straight legs) hanging off the table with edge of table at sternum...pretty hard, and I'd say when one has this lift and hold OK, levers and planche are going to be much easier. Everything will get worked including lower back I believe. And tried one legged goodmornings with weight yesterday....yeah they hit the back really well, with stabilizers working as well.

[Jon Douglas]

Yeah I see. Sounds like a good one.

I found that Dorsal lifts are pretty good too, try lifting your whole body hanging off the table which edge of table as sternum...damn hard, and I'd say when one has this lift and hold OK, levers and planche are going to be much easier.

We call them reverse leg lifts (RLL) here you can attach weight to your ankles too if you like.

[3bears]

Maybe try arch holds (superman holds) for time. Or if too easy, try them rocking back and forth in that position for reps, or waving your arms and legs up and down in the position. Once that becomes easy I'd assume you'd start work on arch ups and reverse leg lifts. I seem to remember that I felt headstand leg lifts a little in my back, and those can be worked progressively with tuck leg lifts, straddle then piked

 

 

 

I do arch holds...and arch ups...on trapeze a few feet above the ground....all the time, this is a part of regular warm up. This is very easy.

Reverse leg lifts are very very easy.

 

Dorsal lifts, *at sternum*...are NOT!

[3bears]

We call them reverse leg lifts (RLL) here you can attach weight to your ankles too if you like.

I'm confused about reverse leg lifts then--I've seen 2 different versions of these and then it's different from what described in the post here. Can you post video, pic or schematic for RLL?

Here's a quick schematics for dorsal lift. Freezing in lifted position...NOT easy...unless you got planche already...this is like keeping body tension for back lever kind of, but you hang off pommel horse or table, bench, balance beam. It gets hard as the edge of supporting structure moves close to sternum. Easier version with edge near navel.

[Brian Li]

Tuck planche doesn't require any lower back strength. So, either your "prime movers" for the planche aren't strong enough, or you're doing it wrong.

Gymnastic coaches don't always know proper form.

Posting a video here for critique would be better IMO.

It still requires some lower back strength, not much, but a little. If one can do a tuck BL then he/she has enough lower back strength for a tuck planche.