Hypertrophy and long workouts

[Valerio Noto]

Hi everyone.

 

Please, I'd like to know if high level gymnasts (especially rings specialists) who train for about 3-4 hours daily (correct me if I'm wrong) got that physique thanks to their well-structured training regimens only.
Cause I keep hearing from bodybuilding that after about 1 - 1 1/2 hours cortisol level rises and this is bad news for gaining muscle mass. Maybe they get some protein shake or supplements during workout to support muscle growth when strength training for so long?
Let's take somebody as Yuri Van Gelder for example. His build is the result of training only, training plus a bodybuilding-like diet or training + BB diet + something else around the daily long hard workout of an olympic gymnast.

I've read somewhere from Coach Sommer that his young students got some nice builds although not eating meticulously, thanks just to their training. I was wondering if this is possible to obtain a build like Van Gelder's.

 

Thanks a lot. Have a nice day!

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

Yes

[Joshua Naterman]

Gymnasts typically gain size very slowly, and yes it has a lot do do with diet, but it also has a lot to do with how much energy they burn.

 

If you want to look as much like Van Gelder as your genes will allow, start off with F1 and follow the program. At the same time, follow my nutritional suggestions. They are not complex.

 

If your workouts are going to be long, make sure you get calories, carbs, and some protein throughout the workout. You can just get some every 30-60 minutes, it's quite easy to do and pays off. Daniel Burnham can tell you his personal experience with that.

[Ivan Kolak]

Hi everyone.

 

Please, I'd like to know if high level gymnasts (especially rings specialists) who train for about 3-4 hours daily (correct me if I'm wrong) got that physique thanks to their well-structured training regimens only.

Cause I keep hearing from bodybuilding that after about 1 - 1 1/2 hours cortisol level rises and this is bad news for gaining muscle mass. Maybe they get some protein shake or supplements during workout to support muscle growth when strength training for so long?

Let's take somebody as Yuri Van Gelder for example. His build is the result of training only, training plus a bodybuilding-like diet or training + BB diet + something else around the daily long hard workout of an olympic gymnast.

I've read somewhere from Coach Sommer that his young students got some nice builds although not eating meticulously, thanks just to their training. I was wondering if this is possible to obtain a build like Van Gelder's.

 

Thanks a lot. Have a nice day!

I think that 1-1/2 hours is bullshit. Watch this video.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1Gfvii9ex0

[Coach Sommer]

Your training will progress much quicker, with far less time wasted, if you will stop taking GST training advice from people are not experts in GST.  You need to learn to separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

Basically this boils down to; "if they haven't been there and done that" at a high level in gymnastics, their opinion is meaningless and should be treated as such.  

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Joshua Naterman]

The same goes for nutritional advice. If someone has not successfully guided people of various backgrounds into better performance through nutrition, especially in areas which you want better performance, you shouldn't be listening.

 

All the talk about cortisol assumes you are not consuming carbohydrates during exercise. It doesn't take much... as long as your body is absorbing carbs from your gut it will tone down cortisol production, because cortisol is produced to make the body release more sugar from the liver and turn non-sugars like protein into sugar. It takes over 12 hours to switch to muscle mass for significant portions of gluconeogenesis, based on available data that has evaluated contributions of labile protein stores to sugar, so even if you WERE working out in a gymnastics gym for 4 hours, as long as you're eating a balanced diet you're not going to watch your muscle waste away. 

 

There is a nutrition article here called "Perfect Workout Nutrition 2013" that is designed to help you get an idea of what your body will need to cover the workout. It explains quite a lot, and is fairly easy to understand. If you have questions about it, there is a specific thread for questions regarding that article. You can find both in the Nutrition sub-forum

 

Valvolt: You are worrying about things that are not only easy to modify, but also largely of secondary importance in Gymnastic Strength Training™.

 

As you progress through Coach's program you're going to gain muscle as necessary. If you are looking for a bodybuilding plan, you should probably be on a bodybuilding website. Because of the high skill component, as well as the need to allow connective tissue to adapt to progressively lower leverage movements, rapid muscle gain is not a vital component of GST success. Connective tissue adapts much slower than muscle mass, so anyone trying to use GST the same way you would use a bodybuilding workout is asking to get injured, particularly in the shoulders and elbows, and we see a lot of that from people who simply cannot follow the advice of a national team coach.

 

Having a decent diet is going to make sure that your progress is not artificially limited by failure to give your body what it needs to grow, but no level of nutritional perfection is going to keep you from falling on your face if you don't follow The Plan. That's just how it is with GST... you go step by step, and muscle mass is not the only factor so don't focus on it.

 

Realize that Van Gelder's body is the result of years of progressive training. If you follow Coach's plan, you will follow a similar developmental path and will end up with the body that matches the training history you will have.

 

Have faith in Coach's programs, and don't get caught up worrying about too many details. Your path to success is simple:

 

1) Start with F1 and H1, and as you move through each course you should get the next one, and as the Movement and Rings series become available over the next few years you should complete the pre-requisites for each program and then train in the programs you have earned the right to train in. For now, that means starting with H1 and F1, and moving forward through what is available right now.

 

2) Eat a basic, balanced diet. Base it on whole foods, with plenty of vegetables, and eat protein + carbs + fat at each meal. It's literally the basics that count. Get 1.5-1.7g of protein per kg of body weight, and spread it out evenly through the day, just to be sure you're getting enough protein to fuel good recovery between workouts.

 

If you need additional nutritional assistance, open a thread in the Nutrition forum. Don't post more nutrition questions here, they will not get answered.

 

Again, while I like the fact that you are a critical thinker, I want to remind you that you are worrying about details that really don't matter, especially in the context of beginning and intermediate GST. Please, do yourself a favor and just get the basics under control first. You have already found this community, and that's a great start, but to really move forward you do need to get on The Program. It all starts with F1 and H1.

[Mark Collins]

Read Joshua's thread in nutrition. It works and is simple to do.

[Valerio Noto]

Thanks a lot, really.

To be able to talk to and get advice from a national team coach sure is absolutely awesome. I've always walked the path of strength (by "strength" i mean both physical and mental) in a state of doubt and uncertainty.

As everyone pointed out, I realize that taking advices from "people that haven't been there" is useless. Well, they might say something true, but a very low percentage of the stuff they would say, if nothing, would be.

But I feel that with the help of Coach Sommer and the others it'll be different. I need somebody to trust and I feel I finally found what I was looking for.

Now I'm really eager to start with The Program.