Me and my progress

[Bill Köhntopp]

Hey fellas,

 

facts to know: 

-i'm 23, 73kg heavy, low body fat and i'm 1,85 m tall, German and studying architecture

-as a child i was training classic wrestling called "ringen" for 2 years 

-my favourite sport is football, played many years, since 2 years i'm out of it cause of having no time

-trained around 1 year calisthenics

-last year i began ringtraining by my own, did it 3-4 months, after that i was just training every few weeks 

-this year i started again with rings, since april i stick to it 

-i was training with one of my flatmates and sometimes 1-2 other friends of mine

-i read the book "overcoming gravity" by steve low, just great! i didn't found an equal book in german, that's also the reason i'm here, there's no real active german forum about the stuff here, but i'm training without a professional coach or so, however i progressed with out hurting myself 

.for legs i'm making pistols and running

 

That's my status quo on rings:

 

-Back lever with bended knees

-RTO Dips since last unit

-handstandpushups on the floor 

-free handstand max hold 5 sek, when i can hold it...

-Archer Pull ups

-L-sit

-muscle up with bad form 

-shoudler stand with legs touching ropes

-with bad execution and much struggling pressing from deep shoulder stand to handstand once...

 

So, hope my introduction is acceptable and my english, too.

 

 

my routine:

 

At first i'm doing a warm up with push ups, stretching, shoulder movements and german hang.

After that i try handstand for a few minutes, but maximum 5 min.

Next are my strenght exercises:

Starting with Back lever with bended knees, 5 x lowering from inverted hang and pushing back to it, 3 x get down as slow as possible in a full back lever.

Second is Dips, now RTO Dips. Then Archer Pull ups. L-Sit is the last.

 

My aim is to be able to do 3 x 5 repetitions before go to the next progression.

At the end i'm doing again german hang and a little stretching and i'm done

 

I make progress every unit, so i don't want to change much, but i need some advices.
Back lever, love and hate that exercise.

Sometimes i feel like making good progress, but there's still missing a lot. What stops me are my arms, especially my ellbows. I can't push enough with them without feeling comfortable, it's no pain, but i want to be very careful with that.

My grip is neutral, my palms face to each other.

 

Are there exercises i can do for getting my joint, my ellbow stronger for that?

 

 

One question about l-sit, i can hold it for 3x 15-20 sec and more if i have to, but my hip is far behind my arms, i try to push it forwards, is that right? whats the correct form?

 

Last thing is, i want to press handstand in the rings, but after rto dips, theres not that power to make 3 sets with any kind of handstandpushups, would it be ok for the progress to alternate every unit between rto dips and handstandpushups-variations?
 

 

Hope you enjoyed my looooooooooong text

 

Thanks for reading and i hope, i can help in this forum, too.

 

 

William

 

________________________________________________________________

"Carpe dolorem" (me )

[Connor Davies]

Hello William, welcome to the forum.

 

I've see a few of your other posts on old threads around here, so I just wanted to say kudos to you for taking the time to do your research.

 

Have you heard about F1 and the Foundation program?

 

Now onto your questions.

 

For the back lever, it's a good idea to work the german hang as well.  You need to be really careful about your elbows in german hang / back lever.  A lot of people have hurt themselves training for it, so it's a good thing that you're not pushing yourself too hard.

 

As another form pointer, you need to work the back lever with a supinated grip, with your thumbs on the outside.  This rotates the shoulder into place and puts the right stress in the right places.  Coach has said that it's pointless to train the back lever with any other grip, and I'm inclined to believe him...

 

With the L sit, at first your hips are going to be fairly far behind your hands.  Just make sure your palms are flat on the ground.  It's good compression training.  After you can consistently get 60 seconds with that, you would want to retract at the scapula and try to push your hips forwards, until they are directly underneath your shoulders.  But this is called an advanced L sit, and is quite a bit harder.

 

I would probably suggest handstand pushups done on the floor for now, and then move them onto the rings at a later date.  If you need to get a greater range of motion, you can use a couple of chairs or invest in some parallettes. Holding a handstand on the rings is incredibly brachialis intensive, and I would probably recommend training them instead of the support hold (provided you can hold a support hold for say, 3x30 seconds)

 

I'd make a point about how you should turn your rings out after every dip in order to get more RTO support strength, but you're already doing RTO dips... 

[Joshua Slocum]

Bipocni has some good tips. 

 

I would reiterate that it's worth checking out the Foundation series. It contains very detailed programming and progressions that will guide you to mastering seven fundamental gymnastics exercises: front-lever, side-lever, straddle-planche, manna, pistols, rope climbs, and the hollow-back press. 

[Bill Köhntopp]

Thank you both,

@Bipocni: very intent community here, thanks for the kudos

 

 

 

Have you heard about F1 and the Foundation program

 

 

After your post, i googled it, but still not sure, if i really know about that...you have a link for me?

But I got the book "building the gymnastic body".

 

 

 

you need to work the back lever with a supinated grip, with your thumbs on the outside.  This rotates the shoulder into place and puts the right stress in the right places.  Coach has said that it's pointless to train the back lever with any other grip, and I'm inclined to believe him..

 

 

 

 

Ok, yeah, i heard about that fact, but it must be right, i read this in the book by steve low, too!
I started with that, but it took more time to progress, but i should take that advice.


I'm doing my l-sit just on rings - but your advice should be for both the same, right?

L-sit feels more like an trizeps/shoulder exercise after my strenght training than abs workout.

 

 

 

I would probably suggest handstand pushups done on the floor for now, and then move them onto the rings at a later date.  If you need to get a greater range of motion, you can use a couple of chairs or invest in some parallettes

 

 

Yeah, that would be my plan. So You would do handstand push ups and dips in one unit? Just kickin out the Support Hold? Problem is, i m training outside on the beach or under a bridge, so no books or so to get a bigger rom in hs push ups...any idea? maybe i try to do them after workout, when i'm home.

 

 

 

I'd make a point about how you should turn your rings out after every dip in order to get more RTO support strength, but you're already doing RTO dips...  

 

 

Hahaha, yes i am! But i forgot to write it in my intro

i can hold support hold rto 3x30 maybe a little shorter after the whole unit.
First i did normal dips, followed by wide dips, wide dips with turning out to rto at the top, now full rto dips.

William

 

 

tell me how to quote right, looks strange...

 

[Joshua Slocum]

Foundation 1 is a course that is sold on this site:

 

https://zp130.infusionsoft.com/app/storeFront/showProductDetail?productId=2

[haui]

Yeah, that would be my plan. So You would do handstand push ups and dips in one unit? Just kickin out the Support Hold? Problem is, i m training outside on the beach or under a bridge, so no books or so to get a bigger rom in hs push ups...any idea? maybe i try to do them after workout, when i'm home.

 

Can you do freestandsing HSPU? I think you should first learn this and then extend the rom.

Freestanding is much harder than with feet against the wall :-)

[Bill Köhntopp]

Yeah, that would be my plan. So You would do handstand push ups and dips in one unit? Just kickin out the Support Hold? Problem is, i m training outside on the beach or under a bridge, so no books or so to get a bigger rom in hs push ups...any idea? maybe i try to do them after workout, when i'm home.

 

Can you do freestandsing HSPU? I think you should first learn this and then extend the rom.

Freestanding is much harder than with feet against the wall :-)

Problem is, i'm still learning to hold a free handstand, no chance to push now

Sometimes i can hold it for a few seconds, sometimes not once in a session, but its getting better

[Connor Davies]

When I mentioned training handstands instead of support hold, I was talking about ring handstands.  Think of it as the next logical progression.  (As an aside, after that is planche and after that is iron cross.  That's how tough on the elbows ring handstand is.)

 

You would probably want to keep a set or two of RTO support hold as a warmup.  I've heard you should be aiming for an RTO handstand, although I've never actually seen one...  Must be tough...

[Joshua Slocum]

You would probably want to keep a set or two of RTO support hold as a warmup.  I've heard you should be aiming for an RTO handstand, although I've never actually seen one...  Must be tough...

Here you go:

 

[Connor Davies]

So they can't be fully supinated then?

[Joshua Slocum]

So they can't be fully supinated then?

It might be possible but it's not something anyone trains for, to my knowledge. You'd have to be in a funky position halfway between a handstand and a planche to keep your forearms off of the rings. 

[Jon Douglas]

It might be possible but it's not something anyone trains for, to my knowledge. You'd have to be in a funky position halfway between a handstand and a planche to keep your forearms off of the rings.

Also trying it feels weeeeeeird

[Bill Köhntopp]

When I mentioned training handstands instead of support hold, I was talking about ring handstands.  Think of it as the next logical progression.  (As an aside, after that is planche and after that is iron cross.  That's how tough on the elbows ring handstand is.)

 

You would probably want to keep a set or two of RTO support hold as a warmup.  I've heard you should be aiming for an RTO handstand, although I've never actually seen one...  Must be tough...

But i can't do a free handstand on the ground, or is a ring handstand with legs touching the ropes also a good idea as logical progression? 

Ok, F1 sounds cool, but actually i'm not looking for all these exercises except the front lever, maybe the planche...and pistols aren't really difficult, the technique isn't hard.

Think i have to go on with getting better in rto dips, free handstand, back lever and pull ups  

[Connor Davies]

Legs touching the rings is fine. It's a strength exercise, not a skill/balance one.

[Bill Köhntopp]

Legs touching the rings is fine. It's a strength exercise, not a skill/balance one.

I'll give it a try, just have to come in the handstand on the rings

 

Does anyone know how long the Log-Section here is deactivated?

[Connor Davies]

Does anyone know how long the Log-Section here is deactivated?

Possibly forever.  It's to keep people from accidentally releasing foundation material to the public I think.

[Bill Köhntopp]

Possibly forever.  It's to keep people from accidentally releasing foundation material to the public I think.

ah ok...its a pity. its always good for getting feedback and checking the progress

[Bill Köhntopp]

after i searched about some questions here in the forum, there are still some left...

What do you say about my training, every constructive comment would be helpful

I'm doing this 2-3 x week

 

Warm up: stretching, moving shoulders, push ups, german hang, support hold

 

skill work: 10 min free handstand training

 

strenght-exercises: 

 

1) Backlever: 5x holding flat tucked BL + 5x lowering down as slow as possible in full bl + 5x lower down 'n press back to inverted hang in flat tucked BL

 

2) RTO-Dips

 

3) Archer Pull ups

 

4) Push ups on Rings

 

5) tucked FL Pull ups

 

6) L-Sit and other exercises for the abs

 

Cool down: stretching

 

That's my current routine. Doing this for 4-5 months already, but with out Ring-PushUps and tucked FL-PullUps, these two i added because i've sommer holidays and enough time and felt my pecs and my back could a little bit more

And would it be too hard for the elbow joints, to train BL and FL in one unit? Whats your experience with that?

thanks,

William

[Coach Sommer]

Other than for entertainment value, at your current level of strength and skill, you do not have a prayer of effectively training ring handstands.

 

GST is not a buffet, where you get to pick and choose what you would like to focus on.  GST exercises and iM must be mastered in the correct order or you are going to quite quickly find your progress grinding to a halt.

 

You may not be aware of the fact that rings have been popular for over nine years now in the fitness industry, yet most people still possess less ring strength than a typical six year old gymnast.  This is due to a lack of structured, progressive training.

 

Rings are an excellent tool for building muscle and strength; but only if used properly.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Bill Köhntopp]

Thanks Coach for sentences.

Think i got your point...but i just want to train on the rings(just feels great and made good improvements) with my setted goals and achieve them in a healthy way. i didn't picked up all these exercises, because i like every one of them, but the seemed to me a balanced thing.

[Connor Davies]

And would it be too hard for the elbow joints, to train BL and FL in one unit? Whats your experience with that?

Back lever is one of the hardest exercises for your elbow joint.  You should probably stop training it.

 

Is there a reason you don't want to try the F1 program?

[Jon Douglas]

Back lever is one of the hardest exercises for your elbow joint. You should probably stop training it.

Is there a reason you don't want to try the F1 program?

Weeeeeell... dunno about *that...* even xr lsits are harder on elbows than BL for me.

[Bill Köhntopp]

Back lever is one of the hardest exercises for your elbow joint.  You should probably stop training it.

 

Is there a reason you don't want to try the F1 program?

Yeah - the point ist, you and coach said, i can't pick out the exercises from here, have to do all: Front Lever, Straddle Planche, Side Lever, Manna, Single Leg Squat, Hollow Back Press and Rope Climb the point is, i just can train in my room or outside with the rings(in Germany from March-November with Luck), but i don't have enough place to get a rope or wall bars, means two are out from the beginning.

 

 

And yeah back lever seems to be hard on the elbow joints, but i don't train it till end. 

[Connor Davies]

Yeah - the point ist, you and coach said, i can't pick out the exercises from here, have to do all: Front Lever, Straddle Planche, Side Lever, Manna, Single Leg Squat, Hollow Back Press and Rope Climb the point is, i just can train in my room or outside with the rings(in Germany from March-November with Luck), but i don't have enough place to get a rope or wall bars, means two are out from the beginning.

 

 

And yeah back lever seems to be hard on the elbow joints, but i don't train it till end. 

Do you have a pullup bar?  Tie a towel to it.  Instant mini rope.

 

Working around stall bars is harder because they are useful for so many things, but I'm sure you can find a vertical pole somewhere to flag off.

 

When coach says you can't pick and chose he's not talking about specifically mastering those seven skills.  He's talking about mastering every single exercise in BtGB.

[Jono]

Do you have a pullup bar?  Tie a towel to it.  Instant mini rope.

Interesting idea. I'll try it next time