Drop CrossFit for H1 + F1 ?

[Nash Kabbara]

Daniel,

 

Good question.

 

I break them down to 10s. So 10 burpees*, 10 pullups, then 10 push-ups. On the third round, I break them down to 5s.

 

The variation allows me to keep going.

 

With 5*15 incline push-ups and the easy & quick iM as rest in between is causing my last 2 sets feeling weak. I'm going to attempt mastery on it again on Friday.

 

I realized that I spoke too fast on mastery because I was teaching myself these movements for the first time and my brain was making some seem harder than they are. The same thing happened to me with H1.

 

Now that I've done it a couple of times, I'm guessing I might be able to master the inclines & hinge rows (if I'm doing it right) on Friday.

 

* I really don't count the burpee as a pushup because I only push my upper body, then bring my feet forward to my hands. Very minimal weight.

[Mikkel Ravn]

the other day I went running to the beach (car broke down) and doing the whole heel-less running technique fried my calves and also made me sweat like a mad man (i was running at an even pace[2-3mph? idk, not slow but not running hard], but my calves give out before my breath does)

Barefoot running is actually not heelless. You land on the ball of the foot and then perform a gentle roll onto the heel immediately after the first impact, so that the whole foot is in contact with the ground. This makes barefoot running much easier, and so much more efficient. The other day I dropped the car off at the mechanic for service, and decided to run home (5 km). I didn't even have sore calves next day, though it's been three weeks since my last run.

/Sorry for hijacking/

[Daniel Burnham]

Daniel,

 

Good question.

 

I break them down to 10s. So 10 burpees*, 10 pullups, then 10 push-ups. On the third round, I break them down to 5s.

 

The variation allows me to keep going.

 

With 5*15 incline push-ups and the easy & quick iM as rest in between is causing my last 2 sets feeling weak. I'm going to attempt mastery on it again on Friday.

 

I realized that I spoke too fast on mastery because I was teaching myself these movements for the first time and my brain was making some seem harder than they are. The same thing happened to me with H1.

 

Now that I've done it a couple of times, I'm guessing I might be able to master the inclines & hinge rows (if I'm doing it right) on Friday.

 

* I really don't count the burpee as a pushup because I only push my upper body, then bring my feet forward to my hands. Very minimal weight.

Ah ok. Burpees are a favorite of mine for days when I just want to stop feeling lazy. They generally get me up and ready.

I think the way you are structuring it is pretty good. You may need to make adjustments once the exercises start getting very difficult. Combining these programs and cardio makes for an extremely well rounded program.

[Keilani Gutierrez]

Barefoot running is actually not heelless. You land on the ball of the foot and then perform a gentle roll onto the heel immediately after the first impact, so that the whole foot is in contact with the ground. This makes barefoot running much easier, and so much more efficient. The other day I dropped the car off at the mechanic for service, and decided to run home (5 km). I didn't even have sore calves next day, though it's been three weeks since my last run.

/Sorry for hijacking/

hmm...thanks for that tidbit. i'll remember that next and give it a shot. sore calves are a bummer

[Mark Collins]

After doing a couple of F1 sessions I can tell that Mark is right. Crossfit is much more aggressive on cardio. I'm usually on the ground gasping for air after a WOD.

With F1, I feel tired (even though I'm still on week 1 on most movements), but not cardio tired.

-Nash

Even though training generalises you still need specific training. F1 will defintely help with gymnastic based WODs and improving body awareness. If you never do olympic lifts you will get hammered if the WOD is 30 clean and jerks or a Snatch ladder lifting each minute working up to a one rep max.

[Deins Drengers]

Shouldnt people get a good base in aerobic cardio and then move to anaerobic cardio ?

[Vincent Stoyas]

With 5*15 incline push-ups and the easy & quick iM as rest in between is causing my last 2 sets feeling weak. I'm going to attempt mastery on it again on Friday.

I'm not so sure you're following the program correctly. You just started f1 last week right? If so, since you just fell short of mastery you should have started from week 9 and you shouldn't be retesting for mastery until week 11.

All your exercises should begin on 1, 5, or 9 in order to keep the deload weeks in sync. If you jump around then it will all become a mess.

If I misunderstood you, then please accept my apology and ignore me.

[Keilani Gutierrez]

I'm not so sure you're following the program correctly. You just started f1 last week right? If so, since you just fell short of mastery you should have started from week 9 and you shouldn't be retesting for mastery until week 11.

All your exercises should begin on 1, 5, or 9 in order to keep the deload weeks in sync. If you jump around then it will all become a mess.

If I misunderstood you, then please accept my apology and ignore me.

this. especially the deload, deloads are magical.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

right guys?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

guys?

[Connor Davies]

Daniel,

 

Good question.

 

I break them down to 10s. So 10 burpees*, 10 pullups, then 10 push-ups. On the third round, I break them down to 5s.

 

The variation allows me to keep going.

Are these.... kipping pullups?

[Nash Kabbara]

Are these.... kipping pullups?

No, strict.

[Robert Rowland]

All you need to add are a few Tabata sessions, and perhaps 1-2 sets of barbell squats, 2x per week on leg days, and you will have far, far more strength AND conditioning than you'll ever get from Crossfit WODs.

I can totally testify to the Tabata 2-3 times a week as a great supplement to FH1.  I perform a ~20min tabata workout twice a week on my F1 SLS days, either in the mornings or immediately following the workout.  Currently the tabata exercises are a selection of TACFIT bodyweight progressions, but switch to sprints on days with nice weather.

[Connor Davies]

I can totally testify to the Tabata 2-3 times a week as a great supplement to FH1.  I perform a ~20min tabata workout twice a week on my F1 SLS days, either in the mornings or immediately following the workout.  Currently the tabata exercises are a selection of TACFIT bodyweight progressions, but switch to sprints on days with nice weather.

I... I don't mean to facepalm here, but

 

A tabata workout is strictly a sprinting interval session, marked by 8 intervals in which you sprint for 20 seconds with a 10 second rest period.  This can only be done on an exercise bike or running.

 

TACFIT, while following tabata interval times, is hardly an all out sprint.  It has some decent intensity to it, yes, but it's very hard to get a true sprint out of pushups or lunges or what have you.

 

Go try a proper tabata sprint session on a track somewhere, then tell me if you want to do it four more times after only a minutes rest...

[Robert Rowland]

I... I don't mean to facepalm here, but

 

A tabata workout is strictly a sprinting interval session, marked by 8 intervals in which you sprint for 20 seconds with a 10 second rest period.  This can only be done on an exercise bike or running.

 

TACFIT, while following tabata interval times, is hardly an all out sprint.  It has some decent intensity to it, yes, but it's very hard to get a true sprint out of pushups or lunges or what have you.

 

Go try a proper tabata sprint session on a track somewhere, then tell me if you want to do it four more times after only a minutes rest...

The condescension is strong with this one. LOL.  Relax dude.

 

More to the point, Tabata intervals can be used for pretty much any exercise, not just sprinting.  I think the original study used an ergometer, but people have been Tabata-fying all sorts of exercises, including calisthenics.  The program I follow is either sprinting, jump roping, or a selection of 5-6 moderately challenging bodyweight progressions.

[Eddie Stelling]

To the OP, I feel like I am rewinding a few years ago and looking at myself posting about this. I speak for many when I say that it is difficult to change your way of thinking and your fitness routine when coming from a crossfit/heavy met-con background. The gut wrenching workouts are addictive and make you feel as though a workout is not a workout if you are not laying on the floor afterwards. But, it sounds like you got Foundation which is my advice over crossfit if you want to get anywhere with GST!

 

Now, I also know that you are doing what I do every time I move to another progression or skim through future progressions in foundation....."oh that's an easy one!" Based on these facts you are extremely focused on how you can work other stuff into foundation, how to do more more more...etc....instead of being focused on simply following the programming.

 

Foundation + H1 is a hell of a routine! Don't underestimate anything in the routine, and you can't do it until you actually do it. Yuri, called me out on this when he was in Charleston. This was the conversation:

Yuri:"Can you do a cart wheel?"

Me: "Yea of course"

Yuri: "Ok let me see it"

Me: I did one and sucked at it, "Ok teach me"

 

It took me for ever to realize this. But, having said that, my advice is to wipe your slate clean and stick to F1+H1 only, you will progress much faster. if you need to add in burbees/pushups/pullups tabatas, you my friend are not trying hard enough with your F1+H1 workout! If it's too easy just make it harder (Master & move on)! If you don't feel out of breath, stop cheating yourself and actually take no rest! If you want more just switch templates! This is why it's a great program. Don't kill your recovery on adding in mindless pushups/pullups/burbees that aren't going to get you very far and take away from your progress (I'm mainly talking about the pushups/pullups).

 

Coach Sommer is a professional Gymnastics Coach that put together programming for you on how to achieve some incredible feats of strength, be coach-able and see if he is right??? I am not saying don't do things you enjoy. Adding in cardio (as in tumbling, running, swimming, lizard walks, and even burbees eventually) a couple times a week like Daniel said is good stuff, but I would try F1+H1 first before assuming you need more strength stuff. Just my opinion and some helpful tips from a former crossfitter!

[Nash Kabbara]

Eddie,

Thank you for all the tips. Good stuff.

> Coach Sommer is a professional Gymnastics Coach that put together programming for you on how to achieve some incredible feats of strength, be coach-able and see if he is right??? I am not saying don't do things you enjoy. Adding in cardio (as in tumbling, running, swimming, lizard walks, and even burbees eventually) a couple times a week like Daniel said is good stuff, but I would try F1+H1 first before assuming you need more strength stuff. Just my opinion and some helpful tips from a former crossfitter!

When I first saw the video of Coach's athlete doing a 2 minute handstand, I kneeled in respect to king Sommer. No questions asked. I've never watched a 2 minute video, where I knew exactly how it's going to end, and I knew exactly what was going to happen in each second, yet my jaw was on the floor for the whole 2 minutes.

Then I got F1. Failing at all PE1/Week 11 put in perspective how strong gymnasts are. Truly 1% of population strength-wise.

> you my friend are not trying hard enough with your F1+H1 workout! If it's too easy just make it harder...

Yeah, when I'm done with H1 or F1, I feel fatigued. Like all my muscles have been maxed out and tired. But not the exhaustion I feel at CF. One is not better than the other, but they're totally different.

I feel like when I'm at Week 5 in the movements that I might not need any supplemental hiit.

Great point about dropping the movements that could interfere with recovery like pushups & pullups. I need to modify my current 50/50/50 to something that won't.

-Nash

[Joshua Slocum]

Don't fall into the trap of feeling that you need to make yourself excessively fatigued to progress. You don't need to "feel the burn" or push yourself to exhaustion in order to get stronger. In fact, both of those are often counterproductive, which is why Foundation programming doesn't push you in that particular manner.

[Nash Kabbara]

Don't fall into the trap of feeling that you need to make yourself excessively fatigued to progress. You don't need to "feel the burn" or push yourself to exhaustion in order to get stronger. In fact, both of those are often counterproductive, which is why Foundation programming doesn't push you in that particular manner.

Joshua, you're way more advanced in your progression than I am so you're probably exerting much more effort than I am at this point. My current routine (if without any additions) is like this:

Mon, Wed, Fri: H1 - WP/PE2, FKP/PE3, WR/PE3, FTP/PE2, HS/PE7 - All at week 3, except HS repeating Week 11 because of shaking.

Tue, Thu: F1 (all 7 movements at PE1/Week1)

Before I stopped Crossfit:

Mon: Crossfit + H1

Tue: H1 + 5k walk

Wed: Crossfit

Thurs: H1 + 5k walk

Fri: Crossfit + H1

It feels like I'm going to gain weight if I only do FH1 without any additions.

-Nash

[Chris Hobbs]

If you were relying on the metcon to keep your weight in check than quite possibly. However, the weight gain should be mostly lean mass if you are eating reasonably clean and that increase should help keep the fat at bay. That said, give it a few weeks taking measurements before and after and then it is easy enough to make a decision with the appropriate data. At this point it is a guess based on feelings and those seem to hardly ever turn out correct.

 

- Chris

[Nash Kabbara]

> That said, give it a few weeks taking measurements before and after and then it is easy enough to make a decision with the appropriate data. At this point it is a guess based on feelings and those seem to hardly ever turn out correct.

Yup!

[Joshua Slocum]

Nash, you know your body better than I do. If you think you need some cardio to keep in shape, then by all means do so: I'd recommend that anyone doing foundation supplement it with cardio. Many people enter GST with a very strong "no pain, no gain" mentality, so I was just providing a gentle reminder that you don't need to wreck your body to move forward

[Connor Davies]

The condescension is strong with this one. LOL.  Relax dude.

 

More to the point, Tabata intervals can be used for pretty much any exercise, not just sprinting.  I think the original study used an ergometer, but people have been Tabata-fying all sorts of exercises, including calisthenics.  The program I follow is either sprinting, jump roping, or a selection of 5-6 moderately challenging bodyweight progressions.

I'm not trying to derail the thread here so I'm going to stop after this one, but it's simple biomechanics.

 

When you sprint it's all acceleration.  When you squat or do pushups or whatever, you need to absorb your force/momentum and return in the opposite direction.  There's a certain necessary amount of deceleration.  When you sprint, whether on a cycle or on foot, you can push to 100% intensity without the need to slow down or stop your movement.  It's impossible to push to 100% intensity in a tabata pushup or squat.

 

I'm probably not explaining this very well, but you get the point.  One of them is a true tabata, like in the original study (which, by the way, was done on an exercise bike by well trained cyclists) and the other is just a decent interval session.

 

Don't get me wrong, tabata front squats will totally wreck you.  But it's not the same thing.

 

Sorry if I seem condescending.  If it's any consolation, I'm much worse in person.

[Nash Kabbara]

Thank you Joshua. I totally agree.

GST fits who I am more than anything that I've done before it.

One of the awesome things here is the goals we're working towards. FL/PE1 is years away (for me) from an FL, but I'm working my way towards an FL! Not towards increasing barbel weight or getting a six pack. Those are just side effects. This is one of my favorite aspects of this program.

[Joshua Slocum]

Thank you Joshua. I totally agree.

GST fits who I am more than anything that I've done before it.

One of the awesome things here is the goals we're working towards. FL/PE1 is years away (for me) from an FL, but I'm working my way towards an FL! Not towards increasing barbel weight or getting a six pack. Those are just side effects. This is one of my favorite aspects of this program.

If you don't have a six pack after finishing Foundation I'll eat a ptarmagin.

[Robert Rowland]

I'm not trying to derail the thread here so I'm going to stop after this one, but it's simple biomechanics.

 

When you sprint it's all acceleration.  When you squat or do pushups or whatever, you need to absorb your force/momentum and return in the opposite direction.  There's a certain necessary amount of deceleration.  When you sprint, whether on a cycle or on foot, you can push to 100% intensity without the need to slow down or stop your movement.  It's impossible to push to 100% intensity in a tabata pushup or squat.

 

I'm probably not explaining this very well, but you get the point.  One of them is a true tabata, like in the original study (which, by the way, was done on an exercise bike by well trained cyclists) and the other is just a decent interval session.

 

Don't get me wrong, tabata front squats will totally wreck you.  But it's not the same thing.

 

Sorry if I seem condescending.  If it's any consolation, I'm much worse in person.

Semantics.  The original Tabata protocol involved an intensity level of at least 170% VO2 max... I believe that's what you're trying to say, as it is a quantifiable statistic.  "100% intensity" is not quantifiable unless you define it in measurable terms.  One can easily perform a few "tabata" rounds of pushups at "100% intensity" but that does not correlate to oxygen uptake.

 

If you truly want to be precise in doing the original Tabata protocol, you probably wouldn't be able to achieve 170% VO2 max while sprinting without assisting technology.  In order to achieve this statistic, the researchers had to use fairly expensive technology to test for the subjects' VO2 max and then preset an ergometer to a higher wattage.  Since most folks are not millionaire athletes or 00 agents who have access to this level of diagnostic hardware, the fitness community has conceded to adopt the 20/10x8 format as the "Tabata" interval.  I understand you wanted to "clarify" what you see as a perceived misconception, but there is no value in being so literal in this case.  

 

Perform 20/10x8 at a 100% intensity, as if you had a gun to your head, and you're doing good cardio.

[Connor Davies]

Perform 20/10x8 at a 100% intensity, as if you had a gun to your head, and you're doing good cardio.

 

Yeah, I'll give you that.