Making the Impossible Possible

[Scott Caron]

Hello Coach Sommers and Forumites,

I found the articles on planche and iron cross progressions and just discovered the book and the forums.

I am attempting what is seemingly impossible, what I do not belive has yet been attempted, and I need some real advice.

My desire and goal is to become an amazing paid performing acrobat. I know an Olympic level is probably out of reach but I want to become as amazing as I can. Among other skills, Tomas Flares, Planches, and other handbalancing skills are on my list.

The challenge: I am 28. I am 6'7" Yeah. I have a challenging phenotype as well...not lanky. I have broad shoulders and heavy legs. A stocky build. I am told that I am incredibly flexible and strong for my size and look forward to gaining full splits. I am very heavy though. I am curently at 282 lbs...getting down to 5-9% bodyfat would take me down to around 225-235 pounds with my current muscle mass (gained weight after an injury).

I need to get an idea of what is achievable with my size and mass. It seems like the articles on progrssions could take me amazingly far...but for example with the iron cross progressions you give it says to work up to butterflies or pulls with half-bodyweight in each hand. For me that will look like 125 pounds in each hand! With my size and build it seems impossible to lift that much without adding signifigant "bulk" one way or another. Hell just doing pushups makes me get "big."

Also I can hold a frog stand but getting to the point where I can take my knees off my arms seems impossible.

Whatever you can tell me will help! I wouldn't be writing if I did not feel inspired and that I can achieve greatness. My handstands are solid and my body awareness is great. What can I do and how far can I go?

Sincerely and with great respect,

Sky

[Blairbob]

Gymnastics training will still be of benefit to you though you have enormous levers within your body that will challenge yourself.

At becoming a world class acrobat will take some time. Do you have that time available and realize how long it generally takes?

[Scott Caron]

I am guessing regular training (almost everyday) for several hours, a ton of stretching all the time, for anywhere from 3-7 years. Is that about right? I have the time to put in...however I have not known how to use that time effectively and how to build up to these seemingly impossible skills. That is why I am here.

Can you see me with my size and bulk being able to planche and hollowback? If possible I want to be able to do these kind of skills...not necessarily the performance mind you but the techniques that he does:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaX50hD2 ... annel_page

He does an amazing planche folowed by a hollowback soon after...

[sasquatch]

Wow :shock:

I thought I was tall, I'm almost 6-5.

It seems like gymnastics is attracting taller people lately... or maybe it's because I haven't been around it (gymnastics) that long.

Good luck in your progress.

[Scott Caron]

Nice name Sasquatch. Tell me of your experience. Is this kind of training possible for us goliaths? Can we achieve mastery or is there a diminishing rate of returns?

[Scott Caron]

*Bump*

Really? No one has any comments or answers to my initial post? Or is there just no frame of referrence? Am I crazy to think I can get planches and iron crosses? Will I just be a massive mofo???

Please help!

PS. I am ordering the book straight away.

[sasquatch]

Well I think it's possible, I think I'll be able to learn a iron cross someday, planche is a lot harder for me, but I think if we train hard enough, it's possible. It's too expensive for me, but If you could actually take gymnastic classes you could learn a ton of stuff.

I did my best flare ever today, I got one full rotation and could almost start a secound one.

I also learned a front fulltwist on a trampoline.

Even if we can't learn all the things we want, it's still a lot of fun and good exercise.

[Scott Caron]

That's awesome Sasquatch! You b-boy too?

Wish we didn't live a n Ocean a apart!

Hmmmm...not a bad isea actualy...anyone around here live in or near the SF Bay area? a training partner would kick ass. The meatheads at the local 24 hour fitness don't get my odd excercise practices. They have a different paradigm/goals than gymnastic power. Heh..if they only knew...

[fireman]

Everything is posible

[Scott Caron]

Thanks Fireman...although with the girl there she actually acts as a counter weight. I am saying it is still impressive but that guy is short(er) and only wieghs 169..thats alot different than 280 6' 7" It is going to be harder for me than it is for him with the way my body is long and heavy. Not arguing with you...I too think it is possible but I definitley need help in training progressing correctly and it is going to take time to build up the strength needed. I don't know what the technical term is but it is what I call nuanced strength...getting just the right kind and proportion of strength and without getting stiff or losing coordination.

I need training partners..

[sasquatch]

That's awesome Sasquatch! You b-boy too?

Wish we didn't live a n Ocean a apart!

Hmmmm...not a bad isea actualy...anyone around here live in or near the SF Bay area? a training partner would kick ass. The meatheads at the local 24 hour fitness don't get my odd excercise practices. They have a different paradigm/goals than gymnastic power. Heh..if they only knew...

No i'm not a bboy, I do like trying their moves though, air flares are super cool looking, and windmills are fun too.

I'm very skinny for my height, 163, but I think I remember reading on another forum about a gymnast that was 6-6 and weighed 270 or something lbs. and he could still do good gymnastic skills... nothings impossible... well some things are probably impossible.

[Scott Caron]

Right...and that is what I am trying to get a sense of. What is possible and what is not and what seems impossible but can be done. If it is possible I would like to be able to show the world it's first 6' 7" airtracks...

[Blairbob]

Eddie Lugo is a big CF Navy Seal down in SD and there are some pictures floating around of him doing a kip on bars besides backward roll to support and muscle-up on rings. He is big like 250 pounds+ big at least 6'4.

http://www128.pair.com/r3d4k7/Chinups.html :

Bert Assirati was big.

If you're in the bay area, depending on whereabouts I might be able to reccomend a gymnastics gym that has adult classes or open gym available. If you can make it to Corte Madera, I highly reccomend looking up CrossFitMarin and seeking out their gymnastics minded CF peeps.

[Scott Caron]

Thanks for that link Bob!

I still have to say that kipping and planching are not the same...and even the tall guys are usually thin and light.

it looks like big guys can do some cool stuff which I do know. However I am still under the impression that no one like me has ever attempted what I feel called to do. It looks like for me to get a lever and a planche would actually be a first time new world record...which would really be something! They would have to put me on that list...

I guess I just harbor a bit of doubt...that I could work and work and work and never get there.

I sent an email to Coach Sommers, hoping he would advise but have not heard back from him. He seems to be fairly present on the boards. Should I send him a PM?

[JoeS]

There are a couple of big guys on this board, they are training partners in the southwest. One of them is 300+ and they do ring work. Sorry I don't know their names.

Do a search.

[JoeS]

Here's the relevant post:

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=978

[Scott Caron]

Thank you Joe that is awesome...I will definitely DAFS.

[Blairbob]

I heard of a big guy around 250, one of the old strong men that could do an IC. I thought it was that guy I referenced doing a one arm handstand, but I'm not sure.

[fireman]

I think that it's more important the motivation and desire to achive your goals than your height and weight. You might have more difficulty. However, working hard and being patient, you won't have any problem.

[Scott Caron]

Thank you all for the encouragment. I think Patience is key. And being able to enjoy the journey. From what I have read it is necessary to be a scientist of sorts as well...when one finds oneself plateauing how to get past those sticking points. I think that is where forums become invaluable. Oh...and getting massage...strength training tends to get me all sore and f---ed up so getting the kinks worked out makes my training progress faster.

[Johnny Too Bad]

I heard of a big guy around 250, one of the old strong men that could do an IC. I thought it was that guy I referenced doing a one arm handstand, but I'm not sure.

Yes, that was Bert Assirati.

From http://www.bertassirati.com/strengthfeats.htm:

# Could lay on his back on the floor, and pull over at arms length a 200lbs barbell, to set a British record 1938;

# Could squat 800lbs unofficial World record 1938;

# Could squat with one leg with a 200lbs barbell on his shoulders;

# Could squat continuously for half an hour while supporting 235 lbs;

# Could perform three one arm pull-ups 1938. At bodyweight of 240lbs;

# Could hold a one-hand stand when weighing 266lbs 1938;

# Could do a crucifix on the rings when weighing 266lbs 1938;

# Could do a military press of 160lbs with one arm 1938;

# Could perform a back somersault while holding a 56lb block weight in each hand;

# Could perform back somersaults, or flip-flaps, while weighing 266lbs;

# Long distance cyclist;

# Champion strand puller;

# Could carry a piano a long distance on his back;

# Could carry a telegraph pole a long distance on his back.

:shock: :shock:

[Scott Caron]

Ah...he was also only 5'6" Leverage is key here as well. For example in physics since work=force x distance, it actually takes more work for me to do say, a standard bench press with my long arms than a shorter person, though we might be pressing the same weight.

I think its my length AND my wieght that is going to provide the challenge for things such as Iron Cross and planches.

Edit: having seen the p[ictures of Bert, it was definitely leverage....his arms and legs were clearly just extensions of his beefy core. it also look s like he has a pretty high % of body fat compared to today's standards...

[Onyx Dragon]

The Giant I am to trying to accomplish similar goals.

I am a 15 year old teen wanting to achieve my dreams.

weighing 242 doesn't help It's a good think I play football.

My current goals included Acrobatic Feats and Handbalancing.

I say by July I should be training for flips and such things.

[mario702]

Hello

I also like acrobatics, anyway how big you are, the training method does not change very much. We have all to go through the same doors onto the way of the skills. An extremely good advice for acrobatic training gives Dominique Lacasse in his 5 training dvds. Togethe with the excellent method of Coach Sommer here you have an ideal training instruction even for acrobatics!!!

Mario

[Scott Caron]

Thanks guys, for all the encouragement! Hope you all had an awesome Saint Valentine's Day celebration. I'm definitely feeling the love...