Forearm pain when training planche.

[Jeremy Frias]

Slizzardman, thank you for that detailed post, it was very useful and gave me a lot of great ideas.

I still have one question though: How often should I train my forearms specifically (eg. rice bucket exercises)? Will training them everyday result in overuse and cause more injuries, or are the exercises safe enough to do on a daily basis (or +1 time a day)? Also, is some soreness in the forearm normal outside of exercising after the first few days of this kind of training?

[Joshua Naterman]

With the rice bucket, you want to treat it like rehab. You aren't taxing your body much when you do it, so almost every day should cause no problems if you are just doing one set. When you get better you may notice further improvements with more volume and reduced frequency, but not until your wrists are feeling good. You may very well notice some soreness or fatigue at first, and that's normal. It's more work than that part of your body is used to doing and it will take a little while to adapt Think of it in terms of the first time you started doing push-ups or whatever. It's just the initial soreness of a new exercise

With the strength training, I would treat it like any other strength program. Depending on volume and intensity, you may need to only do it twice a week(with higher intensity and lower volume) or you may be fine with 3 or 4 times a week(moderate volume and moderate intensity). You'll have to experiment. I personally only work the thick handle lifts twice a week, but I do so much other stuff that between the lever work, deadlifts, pullups, rows, etc I am always using my forearms with fairly heavy stuff.

As an example, I always try to train my "10 rep max" with the thick handles for regular deadlifts. So, I slap my handles onto the barbell, and now I can use 175 lbs. So I put that on after some warmup and I do a set of 10 full range deadlifts. Last week was the first time I used 175, for a few weeks before it was 165. At first I could barely do 6 with 165, and then last week I felt fine with 2 sets of 10( still had at least one more set in me before 10 reps even started to be a problem), so I went up to 175 this week. I had to do 7, rest for a few seconds, do 2 more, rest for a few seconds, and squeak out that 10th rep. The second set had even more pauses. It was tough. I imagine that in a month I will be manhandling 175. For me, 2 sets of 10 reps is plenty of specific thick handle work. I get consistent gains. As a comparison, and perhaps an illustration of how much harder these work your grip than regular deadlifts done with a fingers only grip, I deadlift 435 lbs for 6-8 reps with just fingers. No straps, no chalk. 175 is a serious challenge with the thick handles, and there is direct carryover to my grip when I do deadlifts, as well as my wrists for handstands and lever work.

If you want to work your wrists with the rice bucket multiple times per day(with at least 4 hours between workouts to allow for strength adaptations to solidify), make sure you leave rest days between workout days. Doing a lot of work like that is great for making strength gains, but you have got to get sufficient rest in between workouts. I'd suggest a few weeks of 4-6 training days per week with one set per hand per day with the alphabet at first. Believe me, it's tough. Honestly, I would go with that until you feel like you are starting to stall. That's when I would start working with more volume and more rest, either in the form of multiple workouts or multiple sets.

[Jeremy Frias]

Thanks again slizzardman, you've been very helpful! I think I'll finally be able to put my forearm problems behind me. I just need to keep working at it

[norbeex3]

I read trough the topic and I found it very helpful but I still have some questions. I think I have overuse injury in both of my forearms and currently I'm trying to cure it somehow(the same old song: burning down pinky side).

So I reduced the pressure on my forearms to zero. I only do exercies that do not involve pressure on it like pull variations.

Now I think I will let them recover for 3 weeks and I do rice bucket, thick handle, finger pullups, wrist pushups, and wrist curls.

What do you think how much time will it take them to recover fully.(I want to do straddle presses again and straddle palnches and they put some serious pressure on them)

And how should I do it? Work up the volume again? Can I work on tuck planches or some pressing variation?

Thanks in advance!

[Joshua Naterman]

For right now, moderate doses of fish oil(10-15 grams or so a day) and perhaps some hot/cold or heat therapy to help with the acute aspect of the injury for a week is a really good idea. Do everything that doesn't bother you for a week, and then see how your presses feel on push up bars or paralletes! You will find the forearm stress is much less.

Your wrist therapy ideas are good, make sure that you do that forever. Once you get to where you are at your old capabilities, you can probably cut back the frequency of your wrist work a little if you want to, but don't get rid of it, just to be safe!

Don't forget using heat a lot during your wrist therapy period! The deep heat loosens everything up and helps the healing process.

I would expect a couple months for true 100% recovery, if you are really diligent with your heating and wrist work. You'll probably FEEL recovered sooner, but you won't be at the tissue level. I don't know any solid timetables, but I wouldn't worry about it. It's not a big deal, just concentrate on your recovery and work on everything else that you can! Maintain your elbow conditioning with XR planche leans if they don't bother you.

[norbeex3]

okay thank you! Will do I think I can maintain my elbow strength with back levers btw.

But I don't know what is that heat therapy? How can I do that? With some water or how? And how hot is that hot? :roll:

[Amebix138]

okay thank you! Will do I think I can maintain my elbow strength with back levers btw.

But I don't know what is that heat therapy? How can I do that? With some water or how? And how hot is that hot? :roll:

I like a temperature that leave my skin reddish.

[Daniel Jorgensen]

Another diet supplement for getting rid of the inflammation is turmeric. It sounds wierd, but it is anti-inflammatory and it works!! You can buy it in expensive capsules or just from the shelf with all other condiments

I can't really help you with the dosage - i think around 800 mg spread out on the day (from what i have found at eco health sites). But personnaly I don't take that much - typically only around 100 mg a day. An even this have help a lot - at the same time as I have uphold my traning. In periods when I have taken more it's almost gone.I should be more consistent with my consumption!

[Joshua Naterman]

I am going to try that, thanks!

[norbeex3]

My question is mainly to slizzardman but anyone can answer.

So I have been doing the exercises for a month now and pain is all gone if I don't do anything. I tried full planche leans 3x10sec and it gave me no pain but if I do more than that I'm feeling that it's coming back so I backed off immediately. Do you think that I need more time for full recovery? Should I continue to increase the stress on my forearm if it gives me no pain(can it be strengthened like that)? And anyway how can be the ulnar nerve be strengthened? Sorry if I ask some stupid questions but I don't understand how this strengthening works(maybe i strengthen the muscles around the nerve to hold it)?

[Joshua Naterman]

My question is mainly to slizzardman but anyone can answer.

So I have been doing the exercises for a month now and pain is all gone if I don't do anything. I tried full planche leans 3x10sec and it gave me no pain but if I do more than that I'm feeling that it's coming back so I backed off immediately. Do you think that I need more time for full recovery? Should I continue to increase the stress on my forearm if it gives me no pain(can it be strengthened like that)? And anyway how can be the ulnar nerve be strengthened? Sorry if I ask some stupid questions but I don't understand how this strengthening works(maybe i strengthen the muscles around the nerve to hold it)?

I would be very, very cautious. Try doing one or two sets of planche leans(for a time that doesn't make you feel ANYTHING) a few times a week, after you have thoroughly warmed up your arms! lots of extended wrist circles, some light stretching, and for a while either loose elbow wraps or long sleeves to hold heat. I'd do that for 2-3 weeks and then add on one more set and do that for 2-3 more weeks. I'd keep adding sets every other week or so until you get to 6 sets of 10s. When that's no problem, go for 15 seconds, etc. Treat it like a regular static. Also, make SURE you do the rings elbow prep that coach recommends.

[norbeex3]

Thanks for the tips. I cannot do the rings elbow prep because I couldn't afford the rings yet, only the book(I'm still under 18 a few months and the shipping fee is ridiculous to europe for me) but my elbows are fine. The only thing that bugs me is what am I prehabbing? The nerve or the muscles, the bone or what? Can someone please tell me something about it? What happens inside my arms? :?:

[Joshua Naterman]

Connective tissues are what you are pre-habbing. It takes a lot longer to prepare tendons and ligaments than it takes to prepare muscles! They don't heal very fast either, so if you move to fast and hurt them you're going to be out for a long time. A few months at least.

Also, instead of worrying about rings, just do this: Buy a 2 foot section of PVC pipe, 3/4" schedule 40. That'd be around 2cm schedule 40 if they do metrics where you're at. Cut it in half and do one of two things: build a small fire or light a gas stove burner.

Once you've got your fire going, pass the pvc through the area above the flame, 6" to a foot above. It may take a minute or two, but all of a sudden you'll feel the pipe go from being rigid to being wobbly and easily bendable, like a garden hose. Bend it into a U shape and just set it down on the ground to dry. Try to make the U shape around 7" wide on the inside. Now repeat with the other piece.

You have just made a cheap substitute for rings! Now just run rope through each pipe and tie it to something! You may have some trouble adjusting the height perfectly, but you'll get it eventually. You could also use chain, but I think you'll find rope is cheaper.

If you don't want to do all that work with the fire, a less good but still acceptable substitute is to cut 6"pieces of PVC and run rope through them. They'll be flat, but it'll be the same as rings. If nothing else, you can probably make that happen! Any kind of pipe will work, just use 3/4" internal diameter, or 1.75-2cm internal diameter if that's what is available.

[ScottyG978]

So I was reading through this thread, and I realized that you guys have alot of insight on this and I wanted to test my luck with asking you guys how to help my arms currently. Back in december I was tumbling (i tumble all the time and use it for cheerleading) and mid-backhandspring, my forearms really began to hurt... like BAD. a few more and i knew i was done for a while. Long story short, there's this intense tenderness, somewhat like shinsplints, but without the painful parts, whenever i tumble with my arms. So pretty much any blunt force when they're outstreched. After a resting period of a few weeks, the soreness starts off minimal, and grows to the point where i feel my arm throb with my heartbeat. It never actually hurts to tumble, but if i touch the area, which is mid forearm on the underside of the radius bone (bone running on thumbs side) its extremely tender. Its on both arms, but worse on my left arm. I've gone through physical therapy for it because after it gets really bad, it begins to cause stress fractures on my forearm so I need to stop.

So all that aside, i've decided to take my pt's advice and go on a two month break from any form of gymnastics or tumbling. So far i'm 5 weeks through it. I continue other upper body exercies, i do decline pushups with my feet on the edge of my bed, and bicep and hammer curls. Along with one other which I'm not certian the name. I never feel soreness from lifting, infact the pt had me on machines with several exercies with 60 pound weights. Last night however i thnk i went a little to hard and my left forearm aches a little and im not sure if its just delayed muscle onset soreness or that inflamation flaring up. I really need it to be healed soon, preferribly around that 8 week mark coming up in just 3 weeks. I massage it all the time and I'm going to ease into tumbling again very slowly. Like spending 2 weeks alone on just cartwheels. But this is the 3rd break ive had (none were this long however) and it's still come back. Is there anything I can do to speed the recovery and get rid of this?

P.s. for all you who know the medical talk of it, the doctor said I have an inflamed periosteum on the inside of my radius bones which is pushing the tendons and muscles away from the bone and causing the impact of tumbling to go directly to my bone.

Sorry for the long post, i just REALLY need some answers!

Edit: I would also like to add that the soreness doesnt stick around after the exercise. Usually within a few hours of finishing tumbling does the soreness disappear. Over time when it gets bad though, it sometimes persists for a few days after the exercise stops (not as sore as when i'm doing the exercise, but still sore).

[Amebix138]

^Normally I wouldn't recommend Ibuprofen, but if the problem is some kind of impingement it might help to bring the inflammation down so you can get proper biomechanical functioning back. Maybe 800mg 4 times a day for 5 days and see if that helps (number comes from strength coach mark rippetoe). Maybe a more experienced poster could weigh in on that idea? I know Ibuprofen can in some cases slow down the healing process so that why I'm I normally wouldn't recommend it but in your case I dont know. Of course this is only a temporary solution as you cant keep mega dosing ibuprofen long term, but it may allow you to do some strengthening exercises without pain if you cant already which will be very important in the recovery process.

[Joshua Naterman]

Recovery time for things like this doesn't just include time for the injury to heal, it also includes the time it takes to build back up to your previous level of activity without remission. Don't screw around trying to work too hard. You shouldn't be doing impact work, for sure, and contrast showers/ moist heat therapy should be a daily part of life for you. As far as weighted work, it's a good way to do things but stay off of machines unless you MUST be there. You're better off using a lighter barbell/dumbbell/kettlebell than a machine because that machine won't help you rebuild stability to the same degree and will not help you re-adapt to the stresses of moving your body through space. Elastic bands are also great tools. Once you're able to, you definitely need to take a similar approach to what I am doing for the statics, because I am making excitingly good recovery from inner elbow issues with planche, and am advancing well with all the other statics. I think that the guys here who actually tumble should weigh in on what you should do, but I'd think that a lot of handstand work would help, since you're pretty much always inverted when you're hands are hitting the ground tumbling. It seems logical to me that wall handstands, cast wall walks, etc would really benefit you once you've recovered and are able to do them.

[Jason Stein]

Isn't this basically forearm splints, shin-splints of the forearms?

If it's forearm splints, I would imagine direct ice application, ibuprofen and tons of rice bucket work.

[Joshua Naterman]

I dunno, it sounds strange. I've never encountered injuries like that so I don't really know what to say besides what is recommended as general therapy for all inflammatory injuries.

I definitely think he needs the rice bucket.

[ScottyG978]

well thanks for the quick imput guys =). I think i was a little confusing up above with all the infomation I tossed out. My forearms do NOT hurt normally. Infact, they actually never hurt unless a stress fracture begins to develop. The intense soreness I referenced only comes about with the impact of tumbling. I can hold a handstand for a very long period of time and have absolutely no problems at all. The machines were only at Physical Therapy. Now I currently do incline pushups with my feet on the edge of my bed, and do some simple exercises with 20lb dumbbells. I do not have a rice bucket currently, but I have started this drill where you take a soup can and with a straight arm, you spin it in all directions for a period of time. This made my forearm sore after the exercise, but i think it felt better today. It only recently started to ache a few days ago fyi. But from what people have said, it sounds like a really bad case of forearm splints. Also, would I be better off heating it daily, or putting ice on it?

[Jason Stein]

If it is forearm splints:

Coach Sommer wrote: In addition to the stretching, it will also be necessary to reduce both intensity and the volume of your training. Forearm splints, as well as their 'cousin' shin splints, are typically symptomatic of overuse/overtraining beyond what is appropriate for your current levels of strength.

Rest, ice, compression, elevation, rice bucket, etc.

best of luck with it,

jason

[Joshua Naterman]

Ice or cold water directly following your workout, and moist heat later on and on off days. Ice is just to get rid of unnecessary inflammation. SOME inflammation is absolutely vital for healing to take place, you just don't want too much. The ice keeps that in check right after the workout.

The soup can is ok but will not take the place of the rice bucket. Don't be lazy, you will understand why we say it is important when you make one and use it.

Also, like the quote Jason used says, you are not going to get better permanently until you scale back to a workload that causes no symptoms and then build up slowly.

[CalisthenicT]

Hi, do the same principles here apply for chronic lateral epicondylitis aka tennis elbow ? I have it in both arms for a long time now and I have been doing eccentric lever work (see link) for the past month now and it feels better.

However  I dont know how to return back to this bodyweight training.

 

Continue with eccentric pull ups, eccentric push ups? Can somebody help me with this?

I have done rice bucket a couple months ago and it didnt really help besides pumping fresh blood in to the injured area.

I plan on adding it again to see if it helps.

 

https://sites.google.com/site/healgolferselbow/

 

I didnt want to make a new post, so I posted here because its similar to OP's situation.