Greetings

[kintelary]

I am a 33 year old male in the United States. I am just now (along with my wife and a friend) beginning serious bodyweight conditioning. I am not sure what to begin with, but I am going to work off of Coach Sommer's Top 5 Bodyweight Exercises.

We are training for a Half Marathon in February and I am between 5' 9" and 5' 10" and I was 256lbs at last weigh-in. My weight is largely excess, so I probably have a pretty high body fat %, but that is changing. Still, having extra weight means that everything is harder. Injury (shoulder knee foot and lower back) mean I must be careful, but I must nevertheless.

This is what I am thinking:

The Support Lever Static Progression

The Front Lever Static Progression

Wall Walking building to Back Limber Progression

Seven Fundamental Movements and Circuit Program Design Written by William Sands, Jeni McNeal, Monem Jemni

Frisbee Push, Frisbee Pull, Balance Squat, Pull up, Crunches, Pushups, Lying Extensions

One thing we were wondering, Coach (hello), is that if when we are doing Support and Front Lever progressions (recommended together as per "the article that started it all") we progress faster in one, should we continue with one over the other or wait until both are at a similar level before progressing further? I would think we would progress in whatever we can, but do you have some thoughts for us?

Further, do you have any thoughts on the exercises chosen? Would you point elsewhere?

Thank you and I hope to share progress as it appears.

[kintelary]

:oops: I am also addressing the moderators and the community of gymnasticbodies with my greeting. I look forward to the discussions.

[George Launchbury]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

[Felipe]

Start from basic exercises: push-ups, crunch, squat.

I think that they are the core of your core. When you can do hundreds of them, start working on rings, but this time not for endurance but for power (3x5 sets).

You should drop some weight...about 60lbs, and that's require some months of workout.

To do that, work both strength and running.

I think that Half marathon is a quite big goal for every athlete...but you need to training for an enormous aerobic capacity to do that.

I suggest you to run first for time (start at 20min and increase of 5m every workout). When you reach 60m, you can start consider distance; 10km are a good point to start at this time.

[kintelary]

Thank you George. Hello

Felipe -- Hello to you as well. I run about one race a month. Running is not an issue and weight is not a problem, just a question in relation to the static progressions and other bodyweight work. My goals are not sporst related nor are they bodybuilding related, simply the ability to move without struggling in any way. That is where I think Gymnastic conditioning comes in.

Thanks again.

[Felipe]

great, I wish I had enough endurance to do a half maraton like you...my respect for your ability.

The things I said for strength about Bodyweight movement are IMHO important, because you have to be very strong for move in any way.

Simple BW exercise alone can be very difficult.

For Example: a push up is about 60% of your BW.

So I need to move (in my case) 38kg. But in your case is 70kg, more than the strength required to hold my entire body in the air (maybe doing a planche)!

So, to decrease difficulty, the easiest way is decrease your weight or increase your strength. If you do them both, you will speed your future progress and decrease the time you spend on BW exercise.

For running integration, you should tell us how many times you need to go for training. I think 3 running session and 2 hard days of strength would be the optimum.

[kintelary]

While I run a race about once a month, they are mostly 5k and 10k races, with a few others sprinkled in. February will be my first half-marathon. I like to run endurance races, I just stop and walk now and then

As far as strength goes... when I was at the gym last month (before we ended our membership), I was doing deep dips (I would start from a stretching position below the dip bar and slowly lift and lower. My arms are strong, but my shoulder weak. My legs are strong, but my left knee is weak. My core... not sure, but my lower back is weak. So, I have various joint weaknesses and various strong muscles (I have always carried extra weight, but I am mostly active... except for my World of Warcraft addiction a few years back ).

I am working on Pullups... I can do pullups, just not that many at one time. I have strength to pullup once over and over, but the most I can do at one time is 3 with good form, 4 with underhand grip. It doesn't make me sore and I can do it various times throughout the day, but I am working on it.

I need to develop strength in my lower back and shoulder girdle. Actually, I am pretty strong, but I just got too heavy. Diet was the main thing, so as my diet adjusts, the weight will fall off, especially with two half-marathons on the horizon

I have been reading a lot on here and drillsandskills and elsewhere. I get the impression that I should be at a certain level of overall fitness before beginning the specific conditioning. So, Deep Pushups, Pullups, Single Leg Squats, Hanging Leg Raises, and developing the Arch and Hollow positions for body position and tightness control. I will begin with some of this (or continue in some of it) and will signature my progress for anybody to make suggestions on.

Thanks for the discussion. I see your progress Felipe, congratulations, keep working! :wink:

[IvanPS]

I am working on Pullups... I can do pullups, just not that many at one time. I have strength to pullup once over and over, but the most I can do at one time is 3 with good form, 4 with underhand grip. It doesn't make me sore and I can do it various times throughout the day, but I am working on it.

Thats very good. I started with 3 pullups and just greased the groove and in 3 months came up to 20 pullups

[kintelary]

Thank you and good job on 20 in 3 months.

[kintelary]

Well, I am 34yrs old now and coming off of two injuries late last year

I started the year around 268lbs, last checked 265lbs (in my signature). I am eating fairly well. I plan to lose 30lbs (from 268lbs) by the end of May. I had to forego running after my last Half Marathon in February this year. I probably shouldn't have done it, but I am doing fine now. I am not running, I am doing P90X Doubles. I am in the 2nd week. It is a lot of cardio (even the "strength training" that is done). I like it a lot. It makes me sweat and makes me laugh. But, I know that aside from general fitness, it will not give me the conditioning that Gymnastics conditioning will.

So, my first goal is weight loss and diet control and injury recovery (kind of wrapped up into one goal). My second goal is to work through the Basic Strength progressions of BtGB. I am working on a schedule that I will replace p90x with after completion. While GB will seem like less work, it will produce the next level of results I want.

I am moving twice in the next 6 months and this will seriously challenge my workout consistency, but being it is for the long haul should not hurt too bad. I am not interested in being a competitive gymnast, so it is not crucial that I maintain a high level all the time.

I am analyzing p90x and trying to fit some things into the workouts. The yoga and various core exercises include static holds for the legs, which helps there. Pushups are easy (but there are some that are harder at my weight). The pullups are about the same as always. But I have begun to do negative reps instead of normal pullups. I don't try to "feel the burn" although that doesn't keep me from doing so on some exercises for legs or shoulders. The volume of exercise is what I have enjoyed so far and hope to continue to enjoy it while I attain a weight goal.

I will post my plan for GB when I finish it, in case anyone is interested. And when I begin working with it, I will post my experiences with it. I have so many interests that vie for my attention (including work) that I am always in and out of goals. So this is my attempt in my 30's to establish a good base for strength training for my 40's.

I look forward to the rest of the volumes coming out. Liquid Steel™; Handstand Chronicles; All Muscle, No Iron; and Dynamic Physique. The rings are great, but I need a better place to use them. Not a problem though.

I hope eveyone is having a great year.

[Alvaro Antolinez]

Here go my 2 cents:

For nutrition read Rob Wolf and Ido, go for paleo diet, Im 5´ 7 inch I went from 205 pounds to 167 in one year (I gained a lot of muscle so I imagine fat was much more than 40 pounds) cheating more than I´ll have to :? .

I´ll go for 4 days strenght work out with some cardio but if you run I´ll try to change to "pose" technique (faster easyer runs and less injuries but it takes time to adapt) if you don´t do it allready.

I have a permanent injury in my left ankle not a big one but for me is dificult to do one leg workout as I injury my knee every time so I do deadlifts, squat and good mornings for legs.(I´m not training for competitive gymnastics anyway)

for strenght and core go for.

rope climb

pull ups (BtGB progresions)

push ups (BtGB progresions)

wall walks

dips (BtGB progresions)

leg lifts(BtGB progresions) I´ll pretty much forgot about the crunches and I have the best core in my live.

HeSPu

Planche (BtGB progresions)

Lever (BtGB progresions)

back lever (BtGB progresions)

Lower back (BtGB progresions)

Wall runs

skin the cat

360º pulls (BtGB progresions)

rows (BtGB progresions)

at least twice a week each muscular group and forget about endless repetitions. Of course a good shoulder prehab and warming at the begining with dinamic stretching is mandatory each sesion.

If you can adapt the WOD´s to your strenght It will be the best bang for the buck

I see seratonin training the WOD and is a lot of volume for me yet.

[kintelary]

Hi Omegant. I have always wanted a rope to climb, but around here it is hard to find.

I have been working out since I was young in various martial arts, sports, weights, and everything you find at a club. I have lived a lot in 34 years and my conditioning is a small fraction. I enjoy the learning process, but I am not concerned about when I get results or how fast. I don't follow a diet, just portion control and smaller meals for better blood sugar regularity (mostly).

I am finding a lot of crossover in P90X with gymnastic conditioning. One of the people involved in the making of it where Tony Horton drew a number of ideas from is a gymnast/aerialist. There is basically deck squats, frong stand, pushups, pullups, etc. The program seems to manage the CNS adaption, the Muscle adaption, and generally get the body into phenominal shape for general fitness. But this is not a P90X advert, just some observations.

I am still developing my Basic Strength workout from BtGB. Once I get that figured out, I'll share it to see what people think. Once I get the other volumes (when they come out), I will have a more rounded program. I'm not too worried. I do a lot of different things anyway.

[Neal Winkler]

kintelary, at your current weight I would suggest that you refrain from running. The repetitive pounding on the joints will take a great toll.

In many cases, it's better to get in shape to run than to run to get in shape. You dig?

[kintelary]

Hi trianglechoke7,

I am not running. I had to stop after a couple injuries. I did walk/jog the Half Marathon in February of this year in Austin, but I have placed my running training on hold until I meet my weight goal. I still jog 2mi to 5k during the monthly races we have, but that is not any more stress on me than anything else I do.

In actuality, distance running is less impact on the joints than plyometrics or many other sports. The actual danger is side to side movement (Raquetball, basketball, tennis, etc.). Distance running is also low impact with good form. But I understand the warning.

Thanks for the post.

[Neal Winkler]

Of course the impact of jogging per foot strike is much less than plyo jumps, but you have to consider the repetitive nature. Multiply the impact by the number of repetitions and it isn't hard to see where repetitive stress injuries from jogging come from.

[kintelary]

I understand that. Repetitive stress injury is not something I have to deal with, however.

Cheers!

[Neal Winkler]

I=NF/AR

I=Injury to tisssues

N=Number of repetitions

F=Force or tension of each repetition as a % of max

A=Amplitude of each repetition

R=Relaxation time between repetitions

So, in order to decease "I" you want to decrease NF and increase AR.

Jogging has a high N, low A and somewhat low R. Compared to plyos it has a much lower F but plyos fair better in every other variable.

[kintelary]

Thanks for the equation.

In my case, it is not I=NF/AR. It is I=S. S: Slipping. It was icy at Christmas and I slipped, tearing/bruising some tendons or something in my left ankle. Before that, it was poor running form that caused a mis-step off a curb that dislocated the metatarsals in my left foot. There was that Calf Strain, but that was too much in a two day span of biking and walking. That was likely I=NF/AR, but simply stated, "I over did it."

Type at ya later.

[Cole Dano]

Thanks for the equation.

In my case, it is not I=NF/AR. It is I=S. S: Slipping. It was icy at Christmas and I slipped, tearing/bruising some tendons or something in my left ankle. Before that, it was poor running form that caused a mis-step off a curb that dislocated the metatarsals in my left foot. There was that Calf Strain, but that was too much in a two day span of biking and walking. That was likely I=NF/AR, but simply stated, "I over did it."

Type at ya later.

Sorry to hear about that friend!. Ice is dangerous stuff, having moved to Helsinki from Southern California, i'm always in dread of the sudden ice slip. I had a few, worse was a total head slip, thankfully no injuries, but every year there are many broken bones etc in people of all ages due to ice.

The worst is the melt refreeze melt cycle in early spring. A nice fun layer of water on slippery, cheese grater ice!

[kintelary]

Hi Mr Brady,

Be careful. It is not near as dangerous here, but I understand those dangers. I am glad you are not injured. I have not had any broken bones yet (thankfully). I tend to have joint problems. I am working toward a more comfortable weight. That helps joints a lot.

Thanks for the thoughts.

[pauley]

i Had to cut out cardio during winter well outside because our winter was so severe but went back today as weather has been good and rehabilitating my foot and left leg as i tore some muscle and hurt some tendons but the best thing to do is do some light excercise without any impact like cycling and swimming it's good for joints and muscle especially during repair

[kintelary]

Hi Pauley,

Glad you are back at it.

Strains and tears are a challenge. We need to recover and we need to let our bodies set the timeframe, but we want to get out there and do something. I love swimming, but not much around here to swim in. I also love cycling, but that is how I strained my calf in about September(?). If I kept a better workout log, I would have a better chance at seeing the recovery times. Without a log, it can feel like an eternity or it can seem like no time at all.

Funny thing. Tai Chi was cardio for me. I sweat and my heart rate goes up and I am breathing hard, but not doing any impact and not moving very fast at all.

Anyway, just felt like sharing.

Have a good day.

[pauley]

well i started cardio again but i also do 2 hours of boxing a week (for fitness) i also love the intensity and as usual the boxing really did me well my whole body is sore i recomend for good cardio do some jump rope i have bruce lee's books and according to him 10 mins of skipping = 30 mins of jogging i agree on that if you get into post something up about it will be good to hear about it