Shaking

Noticed something about this issue today - I can do the movement w/o shaking, or I can lift the shoulders a bit further, or push the lower back into the ground a bit more firmly, and elicit the shaking response. Also, on occasion the shaking will start mid-set then subside with no changes in position (which is a bit weird).

Given the above - I am going to experiment with staying within the ROM that doesn't produce any shaking and see how it progresses. If I get to 60s holds and the ROM still hasn't been able to get increased then I will revisit.

- Chris

chobbs said:

Noticed something about this issue today - I can do the movement w/o shaking, or I can lift the shoulders a bit further, or push the lower back into the ground a bit more firmly, and elicit the shaking response. Also, on occasion the shaking will start mid-set then subside with no changes in position (which is a bit weird).

 

Given the above - I am going to experiment with staying within the ROM that doesn't produce any shaking and see how it progresses. If I get to 60s holds and the ROM still hasn't been able to get increased then I will revisit.

 

- Chris

Personally (and I may be a bit of a masochist) I try as hard as I can to elicit the shaking response. I feel like if I keep going like this, doing week 11 with regular ROM will be less demanding. I notice if you play with the knees and hips it can become some pretty challenging stuff.

Klaudius Petrulis said:

Personally (and I may be a bit of a masochist) I try as hard as I can to elicit the shaking response. I feel like if I keep going like this, doing week 11 with regular ROM will be less demanding. I notice if you play with the knees and hips it can become some pretty challenging stuff.

That's me too.

As an update, after a month of focusing on the full hollow hold at 5x60, the shaking has dissipated.

I did the rocks today, and I believe they were harder than they were before. I imagine that getting a better hollow position means they are also stricter.

I'm currently on week 11, day two and even tho I made it through the 5x60 I was shaking quite a bit but noticed it might be because I'm not tense enough in the posterior chain... probably gonna stay with it and make another mini cycle after the rest week

Murija said:

I'm currently on week 11, day two and even tho I made it through the 5x60 I was shaking quite a bit but noticed it might be because I'm not tense enough in the posterior chain... probably gonna stay with it and make another mini cycle after the rest week

I am curious how you came to this assessment. In my experience, increasing the tension increases the shaking. Basically, expending more effort than you were previously means your body is having to work harder. If the shaking is a sign of distress, I am not sure how amping up the tension and thus working much harder would make it dissipate.

For me, working within the ROM where I don't have shaking is working much better than the 4 weeks I spent in the upper ranges of my ROM where the shaking occurred. I have progressed to 4 x 45s at the lower ROM. I experimented with the increased ROM yesterday just to see if things had progressed and the time it took for the shaking to start had increased so I am definitely making forward progress using this approach.

- Chris

I just noticed that there's usually no tension in my glutes and hamstrings and when I tensed up the shaking dissapeared but then I got myself into a new problem which is never having to contract my glutes and hamstrings that hard, for so long

Sorry, I forgot to mention I am talking about hollow hold

Murija said:

I just noticed that there's usually no tension in my glutes and hamstrings and when I tensed up the shaking dissapeared but then I got myself into a new problem which is never having to contract my glutes and hamstrings that hard, for so long

 

Sorry, I forgot to mention I am talking about hollow hold

If the tension elsewhere alleviated some of the work that the core needed to do then I guess it makes sense that the shaking would cease. Seems a little strange but I will take note of that the next time I do them and see if it helps me out at all.

- Chris

That would be great because I am still in the phase of finding out what exactly I am doing wrong so I can stop the shaking and any information will be usefull.

Maybe I'm just not strong enough yet, but the way I see it is I have two more sessions and then the SSC is over and I'm pretty sure I'll still be shaking pretty hard so there's no way I'm going through to FL2 which drags the question of the true duration of Foundation 1

What does nervous system and musculature duress mean ?

Is it something to do with struggling or does it mean that the exercise has reached failure point ?

I don't understand, Sorry.

MrPuppeh... it means your body is under pressure to complete a hold but can't because of a lack of strength.

chobbs said:

If the tension elsewhere alleviated some of the work that the core needed to do then I guess it makes sense that the shaking would cease. Seems a little strange but I will take note of that the next time I do them and see if it helps me out at all.

 

- Chris

My understanding is basically this. Keeping a tight hold so that you are manipulating one whole rather than multiple parts, like any layout skill. Obviously it points out your soft spots pretty quickly.

It's the same with any static position. To paraphrase from another thread, only the required muscles are tensed in a correct hold, however as beginners, we cannot isolate the required muscles so well, or selectively generate the needed tension, so we use the fallback of tensing everything (overcompensating, but hey, strength).

Some people need full arm /chest/ shoulder tension just to hold their elbows locked in PB support. As you spend a fair bit of time with it, it requires less energy and less stress on the nervous system; so no more shaking, and you understand the technique of it, so you can better isolate the muscles you need to tense to maintain the position correctly.

But that's just my understanding

Edit; What I'm trying to say is efficiency. Start off overcompensating and dial in on using only what's required, as you develop the strength and surplus thereof to make it easy enough that you can play with the technique. Word.

Thanks for the thoughts Charm. I did some experimenting and found the extra tension didn't help me out currently. I am however still on the recovery path from my lower back injury and my situation may be a bit different. As I open up new ROM I am slowly integrating it when my body seems ready and that seems to be working okay.

- Chris

doing this in SL/PE1 and going for the extra of using the cue of touching your assbone with your head makes it downright....awesome. 

Hollow body tightness is peculiar in the sense that i too have a limited shake during FL/PE1 but once the glute/hamstring tension comes in, i get DOMS in the rear, ESPECIALLY the hamstrings. with SLS/PE and iM the next day....my goodness, the dynamic has changed by far and that's great news

KeilaniG said:

doing this in SL/PE1 and going for the extra of using the cue of touching your assbone with your head makes it downright....awesome. 

 

Hollow body tightness is peculiar in the sense that i too have a limited shake during FL/PE1 but once the glute/hamstring tension comes in, i get DOMS in the rear, ESPECIALLY the hamstrings. with SLS/PE and iM the next day....my goodness, the dynamic has changed by far and that's great news

I am glad I am not the only one that has noticed this. I just tuned down to week 1 for FL/PE1 because tensing the glutes/hamstrings made this hold so much harder! Does anyone have any idea why the difficulty increases by this much by just tensing glutes/hamstrings? Is it due to an increased pelvic tilt?

I'm thinking it's because holding the glutes and hamstrings tight might aswell be an exercise itself
 

Geoff said:

I am glad I am not the only one that has noticed this. I just tuned down to week 1 for FL/PE1 because tensing the glutes/hamstrings made this hold so much harder! Does anyone have any idea why the difficulty increases by this much by just tensing glutes/hamstrings? Is it due to an increased pelvic tilt?

well, honestly before, i didn't practice my hollow holds with this kind of strictness. adding in the elevation of my shoulder blades now versus before and incorporating the G/H tension....it's the recipe for some very interesting things to be going on all at once. 

also, depending on how much you compress with your abdominal region, remember that the more you focus on eliminating the arch in the back, some people here press their backs into the ground to emphasize this, add how much force is being created. there's just so many ways of tweaking these progressions, it's like you can "level them up" with each stage of body awareness that you enter and become more conscious of your entire body. 

the ABH tension I was experiencing this week thursday versus tuesdays WOD, was incredible, just from incorporating the cue of touching my tailbone with my head. kind of like If i wanted to coil into a Hollow body but with my back. 

now....enter week 6 programming.

edit: also with the additional muscle tension basically creating an armadillo of contracted musculature. the nervous system has to be conditioned to hold that together efficiently

After week 11&12 decided to bump ABH and FL to week 5 again, like how goals change from "OMG OMG must hold for 60s to OMG OMG must not shake for 24s" hahaha

Still shaking on ABH & FL duo from hell.

Could it be 5 day F1 is too much for me even tho I can manage it or it just DOES take that long to get a hang of it?

it sounds funny but, if you're eating carbs and replenishig your glycogen stores it makes this hell a little more bareable due to the extra energy. im gonna be doin a repeat of week 5 and last cycle had some shaking but i could hold. once i've played around with the carb factor, fsp's became doable without (much) shaking.

something of interest i discovered these past weeks while dialing in my nutrition

I've been eating paleo for the last month and a half, been eating lots aswell...feel great overall, lost a couple of pounds while keeping my strength so that's good but I think I either over estimated my recovery rate or am doing something wrong :/

The thing is....it's only these two exercises, others are progressing just fine at 5x/week

I was stuck at sHBH 4x48 a long time and it didn't loosen up until i went to 3 x 40 every day and building to 4 x 60. My problem was the burning sensation got too strong after the first 2 sets for some reason. But 3 x 40 was just below this so i did every day (5-6 days a week) increasing about 5 sec every 2-3 training day. Worked for me :-)

Christian said:

I was stuck at sHBH 4x48 a long time and it didn't loosen up until i went to 3 x 40 every day and building to 4 x 60. My problem was the burning sensation got too strong after the first 2 sets for some reason. But 3 x 40 was just below this so i did every day (5-6 days a week) increasing about 5 sec every 2-3 training day. Worked for me :-)

More frequently/sub max works very well for me too. I am often working something G2G to polish it up outside of my regular sessions--- practise rather than conditioning per se.

Hmm you think cutting the holds 50% from my max and doing them every day would help out?

Give it a try and see. Helped with my issue.