NaterMania

Sliz, what do you think would be the absolute highest rate possible for someone to drop fat %? Please consider the following situation:

Two people want to cut fat %, but not both equally. Cutting fat % is Person A's number one priority with athleticism second, whereas it's Person B's number two priority (number one being athleticism). How will the methods used for each differ?

I don't think there would be too much of a difference, I mean either way you need to have the baseline 30% carbs plus whatever you burn during exercise, and either way you still need to have protein at the human anabolic maximum (10g per hour at the most, even at my size, though the bigger you get the higher this limit gets... the increases are small) with the carbs and spread it all out across the day, with the carbs being a bit more concentrated around the higher intensity portions of the day (workouts, etc).

THe biggest difference is that the person trying to burn the most fat would be as active as humanly possible without going into CNS fatigue, so they'd also be eating more because they would have more carbs to replace. Lots of exercise from 50-70% of VO2max or HR of 115-160-ish. Steady state aerobic exercise is what they would be doing a lot of, simply because HIIT will shut you down when done enough to influence fat loss to a similar degree.

You need to keep in mind that the fat loss person will be eating a lot more than the athlete in many cases if done to the extreme. Seriously. I know that sounds crazy, but they will have a hell of a lot more carbs to replace if they are pushing the true limits, because that means they will be walking at a moderately fast pace and ogging occasionally all day long. Their caloric expenditure will be enormous and 60-80% of that will be from carbs. That's a lot of extra eating.

If an athlete is eating correctly, they will automatically drop to 5-7% body fat andy maybe lower. That's on a strictly perfect diet, both in terms of food source and distribution throughout the day. They will eventually have to pick a point at which they start adding extra fats into the diet (healthy fats) until they reach a point of equilibrium. During the recomposition period, however long that is, dietary fat is held fairly low, only consumed with ADEK sources (greens, sweet potatoes, etc) and only enough to give what is necessary for proper vitamin absorption.

Before someone starts the rant about high protein diets, high fat diets and all the other methods out there that will also work if used correctly, this is the one that provides the most nutrients for the body and by far causes the least stress on the organs. It also happens to be the most cost effective diet. In all areas, this is the ideal way to go. It is not the ONLY way, and there may be specific situations in which it is beneficial to do other things but I can tell you 100% for sure that this is the way you want to do things long term if you intend to live a long, healthy life with minimal risk of chronic diseases or organ failure.

Gotcha, but if you're replacing the carbs used for work plus the protein constant, then how does increased activity increase fat loss?

Because you would not be replacing the portion coming from fat. All the way up to around 70% of VO2max the total amount of fat being burned continues to increase, even though the percentage of total burned calories that the fat represents decreases to close to 20%.

70% of 100 is smaller than 20% of 800, for example. Make sense? Because I am not replacing the calories that come from fat, my body will actually be at a greater net deficit even though I have eaten MORE because I have more carbs to replace. By replacing carbs and keeping protein as high as the body can process, you give it no reason for metabolic slowdown.

Let me be clear: There is zero research in this particular area (specific macronutrient contribution to metabolic slowdown), I confirmed that with my professors, but they all agreed that this intuitively makes a LOT of sense. Just some food for thought. This is expensive research to do, beyond the facilities available to me for sure.

I understand better now. Thank you. I will apply this in the next few months and see what happens

This works better the more you eat slow carbs. 100% slow carb diet = best results.

slizzardman said:

This works better the more you eat slow carbs. 100% slow carb diet = best results.

from 10-15 minutes pre-workout through the end of the workout and up to 1 hour afterwards, simple carbs are best with glucose being the ideal.

And in this 1 hour post workout you should replenish whatever carbs you burned during your workout, correct? (i.e. higher C than P?) The P:C-ratio of the protein/glucose mix you sip during workout is 1:1, i.e. 7-10gP + 7-10gC per hour, or is it different?

- Sorry to bother you with my newbish Q's - it's just a very interesting subject!

Okay, so something like vegetables peri-workout and potatoes and buckwheat other times? I basically have vegetables and potatoes right now, but have buckwheat on the way.

Guess white potatoes or are preferred mid workout, and the sweet ones outside workout. I don't think veggies (for the carbs) are high enough GI/GL to do much instant repair?

You may be right, Bissen.

The ratio of P to C is 10:4+ as far as I know. Around 4 grams of carbs an hour is the baseline for brain activity I *think*. If you're doing anything besides sleeping, I guess you should be getting about 10P+10C an hour.

slizzardman said:

from 10-15 minutes pre-workout through the end of the workout and up to 1 hour afterwards, simple carbs are best with glucose being the ideal.

And if I'm following paleo is okay do that? :?

Mikael said:

slizzardman said:

from 10-15 minutes pre-workout through the end of the workout and up to 1 hour afterwards, simple carbs are best with glucose being the ideal.

And if I'm following paleo is okay do that? :?

Bissen said:

Mikael said:

slizzardman said:

from 10-15 minutes pre-workout through the end of the workout and up to 1 hour afterwards, simple carbs are best with glucose being the ideal.

And if I'm following paleo is okay do that? :?

Have you ever met the Paleo Police? You 100% decide for yourself what you want to do, how you want to do. There's no laws; paleo isn't a religion.

I just asked to Slizz (as always) because I'm a layman and I don't know if taking glucose during the workout can be good or bad in this kind of diet (a lot of protein and fat and too little carbs). :?

Bdk1786 said:

My philosophy on my paleo guidelines: if i can't make it myself, don't eat it. I usually have honey for PWO glucose

I add it too.

Bissen said:

Mikael said:

slizzardman said:

from 10-15 minutes pre-workout through the end of the workout and up to 1 hour afterwards, simple carbs are best with glucose being the ideal.

And if I'm following paleo is okay do that? :?

Have you ever met the Paleo Police? You 100% decide for yourself what you want to do, how you want to do. There's no laws; paleo isn't a religion.

Nice, Bissen. I agree completely.

Bdk1786 said:

My philosophy on my paleo guidelines: if i can't make it myself, don't eat it. I usually have honey for PWO glucose

Are you a bee or a beekeeper? :wink:

Honey has the best taste of any sweetner to my palate.

Wildflower and buckwheat are my faves but keep in mind it's basically HFCS - 43% glucose.

FutureisNow said:

Bdk1786 said:

My philosophy on my paleo guidelines: if i can't make it myself, don't eat it. I usually have honey for PWO glucose

Are you a bee or a beekeeper? :wink:

Honey has the best taste of any sweetner to my palate.

Wildflower and buckwheat are my faves but keep in mind it's basically HFCS - 43% glucose.

HA! That's why my rule is not to eat anything I can't pronounce. The trick is to avoid dictionaries at all cost. It works well for my clientele and I.

I used to love honey but I realized there was a problem when I started eating entire tubs of it.

If you would like something like honey, try and look around for rice (malt) syrup. It's outthere, and it contains no fructose (45% maltose, 3% glucose, and 52% maltotriose)

Dextrose (grape sugar) is another possibility.

Sorry, Slizz, we've sorta hijacked your log :?

Bissen said:

If you would like something like honey, try and look around for rice (malt) syrup. It's outthere, and it contains no fructose (45% maltose, 3% glucose, and 52% maltotriose)

Dextrose (grape sugar) is another possibility.

Sorry, Slizz, we've sorta hijacked your log :?

Whatever, it's all relevant

I like the malt syrup idea, but for me pure dextrose will always be the gold standard... especially during exercise. Afterwards it's really whatever, as long as you're taking in mostly glucose. Honey is very 50/50, so it would be good to get some sort of pure glucose polymer in there as well, like white bread or sweet potato or something... I bet honey + sweet potato + cinnamon and nutmeg would be amazing.

I am making excellent, excellent progress with my straight arm handstand pressing, and HS work in general.

The many variations of scapular work I am doing are really paying off. I don't quite have straight elbows yet but I try, and it gets better all the time. I do have straight elbows on the negatives. Progress video should come soon, though I am awfully bad about doing such things. Maybe this weekend.

Got my first non-rocking press. Much tougher than rocking, arms bent probably 30 degrees at the hardest point but it is coming along quickly!

I think maybe 8 weeks before my first solid press. Probably summer before multiple consecutive reps are a regular thing.

Hey Slizz. I'm going to try sipping on whey protein throughout the day to see how it sits but i cant find how much dextrose you recommended to add in the mixture. What was the ratio you found ideal?

Cheers

Bobby B said:

Hey Slizz. I'm going to try sipping on whey protein throughout the day to see how it sits but i cant find how much dextrose you recommended to add in the mixture. What was the ratio you found ideal?

Cheers

For regular day-time sipping 4g dextrose for every 10g whey. During the workout 10 grams for every 10 of protein is better. Sometimes more, but usually this is what makes me feel best.