Combination of weightlifting and basic strength training

[optik169]

Hello all,

I've been looking at combining a weightlifting routine with basic strength training. I've read about 5/3/1 being an excellent program to do alongside gymnastic training because it is 4 days per week and focuses around 1 major lift each workout day. The only problem I have with it is that 5/3/1 is an advanced lifting routine where linear strength gains are made on a monthly basis. I wanted to come up with a combined routine for novice, advanced novice and intermediate lifters who have just begun building their basic gymnast strength. Although an experienced lifter, I am new to Gymnastic Strength Training™ and very inexperienced in that regard. I would appreciate your input as well as your patience with a beginner.

I'd like to talk about 2 popular lifting routines and how they can be incorporated. The first, Starting Strength (SS for short), is a routine for novice lifters who have little to no experience. A comparable routine to SS is Strong Lifts (or SL), however this routine follows a 5x5 scheme which I find to be too much volume for a combined program. The second routine I will discuss is Madcow 5x5. This routine is aimed at advanced novice and intermediate lifters. Strength gains are made on a weekly basis as opposed to adding weight every workout (SS/SL). Madcow 5x5 prioritizes strength development by reducing volume and increasing programming. The reduced volume is why I prefer this routine to be used in combination with Gymnastic Strength Training™. However, you should not start Madcow 5x5 without first having completed SS/SL or by having comparable lifting experience to that of an intermediate. You can if you really want to, it's just not going to be as effective.

Basic strength training is outlined very well in 'Building the Gymnastic Body' and this forum. The downside for beginners is that it will take quite a bit of time to build the fundamentals. Although you are building a strong foundation, many beginners are impatient and may become disheartened if they feel results are not coming quickly enough.

A basic beginner strength routine may look like this (3 days a week):

-Appropriate warmup

-Static prerequisites (Plank, Reverse Plank, Superman, Hollow hold, Dead hang, Ring support)

-Handstand work

-FBE (Pullups and Headstand Pushups) (Pushups and Inverted Rows) (Dips and Inverted Chinups)

-L-sit work

-Core work

-Appropriate cool down

After achieving 3x60s in the prereqs, German Hangs, Bridges and Planche Leans can be added while reducing the prereqs to 1x60s.

After at least 3x30s L-Sit, Front levers and Planche work may be added.

After at least 3x30s German hang, Back lever work may be added.

Just achieving this will take a bit of time and moving up regarding FSP's, following the steady state cycle, will take 8-12+ weeks. Volume is not particularly intense starting off, which makes programs such as SS (which has a moderate volume to it) a viable option for the first few months and Madcow 5x5 (which has low-moderate volume) an option.

Lets take a look at SS:

AxBxAxx BxAxBxx

Workout A 


-3x5 Squat


-3x5 Bench Press


-1x5 Deadlift

Workout B

-3x5 Squat 


-3x5 Overhead Press

-5x3 Power Cleans

Starting Strength is a full body workout done 3 days per week. It is a novice program and not intended to be used for more than 3-6 months. For more on it's programming, I highly recommend you read 'Starting Strength' by Mark Rippetoe. It is highly informative and explains the small nuances in form. What is not included in the set/rep scheme is the 2-3 warmup sets you should be doing before each lift at a reduced weight. Again, this is all explained very well in the book as well as numerous online sources.

To incorporate this program, you would simply perform these exercises right before your FBE. This way, you are treating your FBE's as accessory work. For the first month doing SS, you should not perform any accessory work (FBE's) in order to adapt to the volume. After the first month, incorporating one pull and one push for each workout is acceptable accessory work. This program is also very heavy on the lower body which is why I did not include any leg work above in the basic gymnastic strength routine above.

Now let's take a look at Madcow 5x5. There are many resources online that can explain this routine in depth. For now I will just list and explain my version of Madcow 5x5:

Workout A

-5x5 Squats

-5x5 Bench Press

-5x3 Power Clean

Workout B

-4x5 Squats

-5x5 Overhead Press

-5x5 Deadlift

Workout C

-4x5 1x3 1x8 Squats

-4x5 1x3 1x8 Bench Press

-5x3 Power Clean

Now, you may take one look at this routine and think that this is way too much volume. However in this routine, warmup sets are included in the rep/set scheme. Your 5x5 sets are done at 50%, 62.5%, 75%, 87.5% and 100% of your maximum. If I squat 200 pounds, my lifts would be as follows 1x5@100, 1x5@125, 1x5@150, 1x5@175, 1x5@200. This changes as the week goes on. 4x5 squats on workout B will follow the first 3 sets as your squats on monday. The 4th set will be a repeat of the 3rd set (e.g. 1x5@50%, 1x5@62.5%, 2x5@75%). Your 4x5 1x3 1x8 sets on Workout C will be slightly different. The first 4 sets are repeats of the sets on Workout A. The 1x3 set is a set at 102.5% of your maximum. You increase the weight while decreasing the reps. The final set of 1x8 is a back off set. Not really necessary but I like them anyway. Do 1x8@75%. For the following week, the weight you lifted on your triple on the previous week will be your new 100%. Each week you are attempting to add 2.5% to your maximum weight. If you fail to make the triple, you repeat the weight of the week before. The Power Cleans are my replacement for Rows. In my original routine, I also paired Power Cleans with Pullups. I left them out as they will be included in your accessory work (FBE's). I don't particularly like Rows and find Power Cleans much more useful. Power Cleans, OHP and Deadlifts do not follow the same programming as Squats and Bench Press. You may increase their weight weekly by a small increment. If you fail at achieving 5 reps, repeat the next week. De-load as necessary.

To incorporate this in your routine, you would again perform these lifts right before your FBE's. This is what your routine may look like:

Workout A

-5x5 Squats

-5x5 Bench Press

-Pushups

-Inverted Rows

Workout B

-4x5 Squats

-5x5 Overhead Press

-5x5 Deadlift

-Pullups

-Headstand Pushups

Workout C

-4x5 1x3 1x8 Squats

-4x5 1x3 1x8 Bench Press

-5x3 Power Clean

-Dips

-Inverted chinups

Take note that I removed the Power Cleans from workout A. This is just a personal preference to reduce volume slightly. I've also paired the FBE's with similar lifts. This may or may not be your preference. It may decrease your performance for those FBE; play around with it to find what you prefer.

I hope this was an informative read, I'll edit as necessary. Thanks!

[gravy]

It's probably not practical, especially if you're learning fundamentals. You want to have a strong foundation, and not a bunch of imbalances.

[optik169]

It's probably not practical, especially if you're learning fundamentals. You want to have a strong foundation, and not a bunch of imbalances.

Which parts are imbalanced?

[Rik de Kort]

I really wouldn't go from lifting on out to GST. I'd go the other way around. Start with GST and go from there.

For example, on a Killroy program you could leave multiplane day be (I think blairbob mentioned this) and do squats and deadlifts on that day. That will give you some leg work (which the template seriously lacks), while fitting pretty nicely into the template.

[Blairbob]

Interesting, I'll see about coming back to this and posting my thoughts on it. I really do need to grab a shower, some whey and hit the gym.

Anyways, blending GB into SS is sort of a bastardization with the linear progress of SS.

Another idea might be to follow the Strength programming of CFFB. 2 days of Squatting, 1 day of DL, 1 day of PowerCleans, 1 day of OHP, 1 day of BP. A little bit easier and might blend in with GB easier besides recovering from. Slower progress.

TexasMethod/MadCow 5x5 is another thought.

531 is not really an Advanced Program more of an Intermediate Program. Really, it's more of a template. 531 for PowerLifting maybe is more of an Advanced Program but I've never tried it.

[optik169]

I'm only regarding 5/3/1 (powerlifting) as an advanced program because its focus is building strength on a monthly basis. SS is built around a workout-to-workout strength gain basis which is largely CNS development (hence the squats 3 days a week: because they're such a major compound and for their particular CNS adaptability). 5/3/1 is still an effective program but it would be more-so with a strong foundation. (If powerlifting is broken down into years of experience, it would be novice: 0-6 months, intermediate: 0.5-2 years, advanced: 2-5+ years, elite: 5?+ years. SS would encompass the first 3-6 months, madcow would encompass up to 1 or 1.5 years, and 5/3/1 would be after that. It's just a progression from building strength from workout-to-workout, to weekly, to monthly, and so on. )

I agree that 5/3/1 is essentially a template. Olympic lifters follow a very similar template because they have monthly competitions. They build up to their peak, take a back off week and repeat the cycle while trying to increase their lifts over that monthly period.

I included SS in the beginning but the real shining star of the combination would be madcow 5x5. To put it simply, my idea was to combine a low volume beginning GB program with a relatively low volume lifting program. By the time you actually build the strength for significant lever/planche work(anything other than the starting variations), you can move on to a program like 5/3/1 which has further reduced volume to compensate.

I just figured doing 6 prereq static positions, handstand work, one calisthenic push, one calisthenic pull and core work weren't so heavy in volume that they would negatively affect a lifting program like madcow 5x5.

For example, on a Killroy program you could leave multiplane day be (I think blairbob mentioned this) and do squats and deadlifts on that day.

That's a good idea. I'm starting with 3 workouts a week but when I move up to 4, my options would expand.

-- also I should just mention, I'm not currently doing any of this. I'm doing squats on monday/friday and deadlifts on wednesday. This is all food for thought until I can (if I can) work out something substantial.

[Blairbob]

If I remember, I did squats as one of the last things on Tuesdays and Deadlifts as one of the last things I did on Fridays. 5 sets. Fixed weight 275-330lbs. Wednesday was an off day as was Saturday/Sunday.

This was back in 2009-mid 2010.