Strength and Hypertrophy Program

[Shuffle]

Hey everyone, new to the forum and gymnastic training in general. Just looking for some feedback on a program I am designing for both strength and body building.

Gymnastic Static Progression Positions

Planche

Front Lever

Back Lever

Handstand Work

L – sit

Dead Hangs with chin-up grip

Body Building Exercises

Pull-ups

Chin-ups

Dips

Inverted Rows

Handstand Push-ups when able

Workout Schedule

I intend to train in boxing twice a week on Tuesday and Thursday

The static positions will be done on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. Apart from the handstand work which I will do every day except Saturday and Sunday.

I am thinking of just doing the body building exercises on Monday and Friday so as to aid with recovery.

Sets and Reps

For the static positions I am planning to follow the BtGB book through the progressions, working on the principle of 60 seconds total time for each exercise with 10 sets of 6 seconds.

For the body building exercises I am open to suggestions. As it stands I am planning on following a 5 week routine which will look as follows:

Week 1 – Monday = 2 sets 6 reps and Friday = 2 sets 6 reps

Week 2 – Monday = 2 sets 7 reps and Friday = 2 sets 7 reps

Week 3 – Monday = 2 sets 8 reps and Friday = 2 sets 8 reps

Week 4 – Monday = 2 sets 9 reps and Friday = 2 sets 9 reps

Week 5 – Monday = 2 sets 10 reps and Friday = 2 sets 10 reps

If week 5 is completed successfully I will increase the starting weight and restart the cycle. If this proves to be too taxing I am considering having the Monday workout as my heavy workout and Friday as my light workout. I'll be starting with bodyweight and then gradually adding weight with the help of a belt so my light day would eventually be 10%, maybe 20% less weight. (Inspired by All Pro on http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=147447933)

Questions

A) My main concern is recovery. I'm worried that because I'm doing a bit of everything I'm not going to see much of a gain in any of the areas and just burn out. I will avoid training to failure in order to help manage this.

B) With the static positions If I fail to make the full 6 seconds of my sets do I simply carry on but with shorter sets until I get to the full 60 seconds?

C) The cycle for static positions will be 8 to 12 weeks as discussed in BtGB. In the book it says that at the end of a cycle, when completing a new maximum test, if for example the maximum was 15 seconds the new training scheme will be 8 sets of 8 seconds in the new cycle. When capable of performing a static hold for longer than 15 seconds you should proceed the the next variation. Is this a general guide or is this a set rule where by the sets should be reduced by roughly 55% of the maximum? I think I may just be over thinking what is written in the book, can any one offer any clarification?

[optik169]

If you want to body build, why not consider lifting? If you want to, you could probably incorporate a real hypertrophy routine with Gymnastic Strength Training™. And as long as you're not lifting to failure, it's unlikely you'll overtrain.

[Blairbob]

First off, the GB system is designed so that in the positions of the planche and levers, you build up to being able to doing 60s in the beginning progressions such as tuck, advanced tuck and frogstand, advanced frogstand, tuck, and advanced tuck.

When you hit the straddle position, being able to hit 15s is fine. It's an advanced progression.

As for the 2 sets of what are called FBE's, I don't think it's enough volume. Period.

For a beginner, I think it is far more wise to only use a progression that can you can use as a workset for at least 10 seconds. That means you have to be able to hold it for 20s as a max. This is merely because 6 sets is a lot more manageable volume than 10 sets. 10 sets just takes a lot of time and a lot more out of you. If you had to do 10 sets for all 3 moves, it will take awhile unless you do them as a mini circuit ( for example, FL, then PL, then BL ).

[Shuffle]

Thank you for the advice.

Optik169: I am giving the weights a rest for a while while I work on my flexibility with regular stretching sessions. Poor flexibility is limiting me in the squat and deadlift due to a rounding back, something which has caused me injury on a couple of occasions.

Blairbob: So I have this clear in my head. While doing the beginning progressions for planche, front lever and back lever it is okay to work towards 60s. But you recommend I follow a workset of 6 sets of 10s reps. Once I get to the more advanced progression of the straddle, 4 sets of 15s is more appropriate. For these exercises does it ever become necessary to increase the total workout time above 60s?

Do you recommend I follow this routine for the handstand and dead hang work? From things I have read on the forum I was thinking of going for a total training time of 5 minutes with these exercises?

Okay so my body building exercises are FBE'S. I'll admit I was a little conservative when planning it because I was unsure how much the boxing was going to take its toll. By not enough volume do you mean there isn’t enough involved set/rep wise or that there isn’t enough exercises to stimulate growth? I realise that without squats, deadlifts, shoulder press, bench press etc I am not going to see massive gains. I picked exercises I thought would complement the gymnastic training. I plan to follow a more appropriate body building routine later in the year when my flexibility has improved. Sorry should have explained that in my first post.

[Rik de Kort]

I think Blairbob was referring to what hold you start out with.

[optik169]

Optik169: I am giving the weights a rest for a while while I work on my flexibility with regular stretching sessions. Poor flexibility is limiting me in the squat and deadlift due to a rounding back, something which has caused me injury on a couple of occasions.

Gotcha, I've been there too.

[Shuffle]

While going through all this information to start my bodyweight training I have been making some basic notes. If I were to arrange this in a very simple step by step guide for beginners would this be beneficial? As it stands I feel a guide showing where to start and what to read would help with all the rate my program threads, something which may become more frequent what with the Olympics. A sticky for beginners that provided useful information and links to get people started. What do you think?

[Blairbob]

Well, this should be covered in the 2nd edition of the book; when it comes out.

Go for it if you feel like it. No guarantee it will be stickied though.

[Shuffle]

I am in the middle of putting together the beginner guide I mentioned. To get things straight for the guide and my own training could you please help clarify my understanding and help with some questions?

I've labelled all the questions, it would be really helpful if someone could simply list them and give short answers.

Prerequisites

First it is necessary to complete all 6 prerequisites.

Straight Arm Hollow Plank

Reverse Plank

Hollow Hold

PB Support on a chair

Dead Hang with pronated and supinated grip

Arch Hold

The aim is to accomplish 3 sets of 60 seconds with each exercise.

Once this is achieved you move on to a proper workout such as Killroy70's or the WOD.

At this point the prerequisites become a warm up involving 1 set of 60 seconds for each exercise

The workout template should look like:

Warm up

Mobility work

Prerequisites

Skill work – HS work

FSP's

FBE's

Stretching

Proper Workout

Hard to know what is true, there seems to be conflicting information everywhere.

FSP

Planche

Back Lever

Front Lever

Handstand Work

Which means if I follow the correct progressions as a beginner I will be training:

Planche - frog stand

Back Lever - tuck

Front Lever - tuck

Wall Handstand Work

A) How do I work out the correct sets and reps for each exercise? I know that 6 sets of 10 seconds is recommended but how does this “50% of max protocol†come into it?

B) What if I fail a set? Do I stop the exercise and try again another day? Or just do as much as I can for 60 seconds? E.g. loads of smaller sets that build up to the 60s?

C) Using SSC I keep all sets/reps exactly the same for 8-12 weeks. How do I determine the exact amount of weeks, or do I progress when I feel ready?

D) Am I right in thinking this 8-12 week period is to allow the joints and ligaments time to adapt alongside the muscles?

E) I have read somewhere that the L-sit should be trained long before the planche, is this true?

FBE's

BtGB recommends a different FBE be trained every session. As shown in Killroy70's workout:

Day 1 - Horizontal plane pushing and pulling FBE

Day 2 - Curling (inverted pull-up) and dipping variations (RTO dips, etc..) FBE

Day 3 - Pull-up and HeSPU variation FBE

Day 4 - Multiplane pulling variations + varied pressing work

However the 'Routine Construction' section in this Steve Low article (http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2010/03/the-fundamentals-of-bodyweight-strength-training/#bw7) recommends you initially train one FBE every training session (dips) and then after 2-3 cycles of 4-8 weeks you add another two so as to train 3 FBE's every training session.

F) Which is the best approach? Is the BtGB approach more strength where as the Steven Low approach is more strength and hypertrophy?

G) Is it best to do dips, pull-ups and rows weighted with the help of a belt or to use the harder bodyweight versions of the exercises?

H) How does progression work for FBE's? I have seen something called Linear programming. Does this mean that all sets and reps stay the same for 3-4 weeks?

I'm trying, but struggling, to understand everything as simply as possible. This stuff is not easy to get your head around, particularly when there's a risk of injury if something is not understood correctly

I) As it stands is this information I have provided correct?

J) Is there anything important I have missed out?

[Blairbob]

A. Test your max hold. If it's 20 seconds, you would do worksets of 10 seconds. 6x10=60.

B.

Or just do as much as I can for 60 seconds? E.g. loads of smaller sets that build up to the 60s?

No. Some days, shit happens. Call it a day and come back to it on the next workout session.

C. 8-12. At least 8, probably no more than 12. If there is no progress after doing a 12 week cycle and retesting, you'll have to figure what you buggered ( rest and recovery, too much volume, etc)

D. Yes. That's the theory.

E. Yes. Master a basic L-sit. Honestly if you cannot become adequate in a basic L from hang or support, your gymnastics strength will be dismal in some capacities.

F. You really went there? Hahah.

recommends you initially train one FBE every training session (dips) and then after 2-3 cycles of 4-8 weeks you add another two so as to train 3 FBE's every training session.

Not really correct. Steve generally prefers trainees to do 2 push and 2 pull exercises per session whereas the Killroy70 based off the recommendation in BtGB programming advocates 1 push and pull. Steve's would tend to have more volume because of the 2 exercises than just 1 but also bare in mind if you do Killroy you are in fact doing more than just 1 push and pull exercise because of the levers and planche work (FL is mostly pull, PL is mostly push, and BL is a weird hybrid of both like Cross).

G. Either or. Coach Sommer tends to prefer non weighted exercises in lieu of the more advanced BW progressions. It's been debated before ad nauseum.

H. Linear programming in barbell training generally means adding more load to the bar over time. For BW movements, you would upp the difficulty of a BW movement. Say pseudo planche pushup, then tuck planche pushups, then adv tuck planche pushups and so on. Tricky to progress. Sets and rep may stay consistent but BW load by leverage would be scaled up.

I. Close enough.

J. Probably. Read through the forum posts more. Or wait till the next edition of BtGB V 2.0.