Krill Oil - better than fish oil?

[Larry Roseman]

Have been reading about Krill oil, which is a small marine animal that has a high omega-3 content

as well as a powerful antioxidant in it. It's been studied a bit and seems interesting.

It seems to lower CRP inflammation factor and have an impact on joint health, so may be of interest to you.

I haven't tried it but if anyone has, it would be great to read your opinion. It sounds very good, but is it too early

to say? I may give it a shot...what's your opinion?

http://themedicalbiochemistrypage.org/krilloil.php

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15656713

http://www.naturesnutrition.com/SKU/49160.htm

http://www.neptunebiotech.com/dietary-s ... antage-nko

[WitnessTheFitness]

There's a lot of ecological concern over krill oil, in terms of sustainability. Whole Foods famously decided to ban the sale of it in their stores, even.

That, combined with the fact that there's nothing nutritionally special about krill oil, provides enough reason not to take it in my mind. Omega acids can be found plentifully in sustainable sources such as seeds and seed oils (flax and chia being the most common), and the phytochemical in krill, Astaxanthin, is produced synthetically as well as from phaffia yeast and other sources.

In terms of essential fatty acid supplements, chia seeds are the best source nutritionally by far, I think. Not only do they have tons of omega 3, they are packed full of fiber, minerals, and protein.

[Blairbob]

Supposedly since Krill Oil is in phosphalid form it's a more efficient way of being metabolized compared to DHA and EPA in Fish Oil. Krill oil also is quite expensive though no one has really set out to see if it's as effective as fish oil nor has it been used in as many studies. Again, frick'n expensive.

Chia does contain Omega-3 Fatty acids but it is the form of ALA instead of EPA and DHA like Krill, Cod, and Fish Oil. It is not nearly as efficient in the human body because it is a long chain amino acid. From what I recall it takes about 10x the amount of ALA to be ingested to be converted into EPA and DHA in the human. Bottom line, it's not as efficient.

Chia is still good because of the fiber and protein and antioxidants. I looked into it awhile back but it seemed a bit expensive.

[Larry Roseman]

There's a lot of ecological concern over krill oil, in terms of sustainability. Whole Foods famously decided to ban the sale of it in their stores, even.

That, combined with the fact that there's nothing nutritionally special about krill oil, provides enough reason not to take it in my mind. Omega acids can be found plentifully in sustainable sources such as seeds and seed oils (flax and chia being the most common), and the phytochemical in krill, Astaxanthin, is produced synthetically as well as from phaffia yeast and other sources.

In terms of essential fatty acid supplements, chia seeds are the best source nutritionally by far, I think. Not only do they have tons of omega 3, they are packed full of fiber, minerals, and protein.

I've read that the Neptune brand at least, was approved for sustainability.

http://www.neptunebiotech.com/corporate ... ainability

The study linked above, which I haven't read in full and was manufacture funded, did show that a smaller dose was needed than fish oil and the effects more dramatic. I know that there are other krill studies, though I haven't reviewed them all.

Good points about the Astaxanthin. My concern would also be the cost of a standalone supplement to add to the fish oil which is not cheap either! Have you tried this one? The shine of some antioxidants has also come off with studies showing no

reduction in cancer ... not sure about this one.

Unfortunately as Blairbob mentioned above ALA is only 5-10% converted to EPA and DHA, so you do need to eat tons.

It seems nutritionally unique and dense. My main concern now is that Dr. Oz is also behind Krill.

Personally I can't tell if fish oil is doing anything for me, so probably wouldn't if I were taking Krill!

Still, it seems interesting

[Joshua Naterman]

I think one of the main factors here is simply not having a diet that is strongly inflammatory to begin with. These supplements exist primarily to counteract the effects of excess omega 6, as they compete for receptors with omega 3's.

I have been seeing ethyl esters of epa and dha hitting the market recently, but the article I am linking in a few sentences shows they are not absorbed as well as regular fish oil OR krill oil.

You don't need all that much fish oil to get yourself into the 1:1 to 1:4 omega-3 to omega-6 ratio that appears to be the healthiest for us, and if our beef and milk was all just grass-fed we wouldn't need any at all because game meat and grass-fed beef are both something like 1.48:1 omega-3:6.

Cutting excessive fast carbs also makes a huge difference, so I always wonder if we are sometimes confusing what problem actually needs to be solved when it comes to the research...

More recently, Ulven et al. [15], compared the uptake of n-3 LC PUFA in the form of TAG from fish oil to krill oil in a randomized, parallel group study over 7 weeks, and used total plasma FA composition as an endpoint. Although the EPA+DHA doses used were different (543 mg in krill oil, 864 mg in fish oil), changes in total plasma FA and in a plasma lipid panel were similar. Although, again, differences in dose obviate clear conclusions on bioavailability, the data indicates that absorption of EPA+DHA from krill oil was superior to fish oil TAG, which would be in keeping with our results.

This is just quoted to show that the dosage needed from each source isn't super duper different to get similar results, so don't worry too much about whether krill oil is "better" or not... the price point for equivalent doses is out of proportion to the results from the doses used in the above reference so cost-benefit ratio is not in support of krill oil.

This is from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3168413/ which is a really accessible free full text article. In the discussion they actually do a great job of covering the basics in this area of research. I enjoyed it, anyways.

[Larry Roseman]

Thanks for that Josh. I will have a read.

What do you make of the Astaxanthin component in Krill, and claims that the O-3 incorporation into PL (phospholipid) rather than TAG leads to greater incorporation into cell membranes? Also, there being a greater % of phosphatidylcholine than fish oil?

Those are its other claims to fame.

I agree that lowering the diet inflammation potential is most important though!

[Joshua Naterman]

I don't know, I'll have to do some reading after finals! I'm sure I'll read before then I can't stay away from new knowledge in the health/fitness realm.

I'm not sure about the phospholipid issue having much to do with membrane incorporation, I mean our bodies have no trouble making those, but without the benefit of having read anything on the subject I would have to say that it is possible. I don't think this is a major issue with regard to efficacy, though.

As for the phosphatidylcholine, I don't think that is a huge issue either... it's a part of cell membranes and everything we eat has cell membranes, and common foods are rich in it... especially egg yolks and anything with soy lecithin (which is practically everything).

In addition to the increased caloric burden of a diet rich in fats like phosphatidylcholine, a recent report has linked the microbial catabolites of phosphatidylcholine with increased atherosclerosis through the production of choline, trimethylamine oxide, and betaine.[11] However, as critics have noted,[12] a 1999 study by other authors who studied 46 different foods did not find choline-rich foods to cause TMAO production.[12]

Now, I doubt that the calories are an issue but the rest is pretty interesting. I love wikipedia because the references are a great starting point for learning more about a subject. In the end I think we are going to find that it really all comes down to having the amount of plant matter in our diets that we would be forced to eat by necessity if we didn't have industrial food sources and not having rapidly absorbed carbs in any significant quantity aside from PWO. I could be wrong, but as more research is done it keeps pointing more and more in this general direction.

[Larry Roseman]

I don't know enough either to say fully. The medical biochemistry page linked to above has a full explanation of why the PL carrier of omega-3 results in a greater incorporation (of O-3) into the phospholipids and then into the cell membranes. To what extent that has been verified in reality I am not sure. (ed. I see your link addresses this and indicates krill is superior to Fish oil as far as plasma concentration goes however cell membranes incorporation requires further research).

What's most interesting to me is that there are reports of large drops in LDL and increases in HDL using it. Other studies have shown approximately the same response but at a lower dose. I've been using fish oil for years and despite this, losing weight, being active and having a relatively clean diet (80%?), have borderline readings in all areas. Perhaps I'm a low responder. So I've decided to try Krill for a month and get tested. It may be genetic in my case, or the last 20% of the diet may make the difference; however I would rather pop a Krill pill than have to give up many of my favourite foods. Not a good example, I know! Oh well ...

Pricewise it's at least double fish oil cost. But half has much seems to be required, going by the reports.

So it seems worth a try, given there are additional potential benefits as well.

[Joshua Naterman]

I say go for it! If that's the only thing that is changing and your cholesterol levels also change that would really be cool!

From what I understand you should wait about 2-3 months before getting tested again, as you may not see significant results after 1 month if the change is a gradual one.

[Larry Roseman]

I say go for it! If that's the only thing that is changing and your cholesterol levels also change that would really be cool!

From what I understand you should wait about 2-3 months before getting tested again, as you may not see significant results after 1 month if the change is a gradual one.

Used it for a couple of months, perhaps averaging the 500mg maintenance dose that supposedly increases HDL 30%.

Waiting for results, as had a blood test recently for insurance.

One thing I noticed though is that when I take it I am pretty much guarenteed to have a movement

or two or three that day. And I'm not talking about a gymnastic movement I'm not sure what causes it - it could

possibly be more cholesterol is being disposed of through the bile - increased bile flow is known to decrease intestinal transit time - in any event the bottom line is literally the bottom line Just mentioning in case anyone is dealing with difficulties in this area, it may be a worthwhile try.

[Blairbob]

Same will happen with too much fish oil. Robb Wolf told me once that if too much fat is ingested at one time, the body goes into elimination mode. Awoogah!

[Joshua Naterman]

Can you define elimination mode?

[Cole Dano]

diarrhea

[Larry Roseman]

This might be TMI but what was good with the krill, is that it wasn't loose, just frequent.

Nor was the amount taken very large - 500mg to 1g. However, it may not work for anyone else this way or

continue for long.

[Joshua Naterman]

Personally I think those are important details.

Cole: Well, it's not so much elimination mode as an inherent limitation in the absorbable amount of fats based on the amount of bile available at the time. When you can't absorb fats... well... they act as lubrication. :|