Can't sleep

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

5 hours a day includes flexibility and lots of prehab so I don't think overtraining is an issue. :?

A good way to find out is to step back to 2 hours every other day for 10 days and see if your sleep improves.

[Larry Roseman]

Thanks for all your help guys

I don't know why I can't sleep because I exercise about 5 hours a day so I should be tired!

When was the last time you took a week off from training?

Difficulty sleeping may also be a sign of overtaining!

[Banzas]

When was the last time you took a week off from training?

Difficulty sleeping may also be a sign of overtaining!

It could be overtraining but I don't believe it is. Last summer for example, about 2 weeks without training (just some handstands at the beach ) and the same happened.

[Craig Mallett]

About my head I think that's the problem. Sometimes my head feels like an old computer with windows 95 and 99% fragmented that can't shut down even if he hasn't virus. Some random stuff come in my head and I don't know how to shut down, probably that's the problem. I need to learn this, stop thinking! Strange is: I don't remember what I think but I have no worries, no problems in life... I think it's just me planning the other days but I don't want to waste my sleep time on that!

I've had several clients with insomnia who have attended my qi gong/meditation class and every single one without fail reported sleeping like a rock on the nights that they practice.

If you don't have access to this kind of thing, then you can still practice on your own. Check out this site:

http://www.meditationexpert.com/meditat ... /index.htm

I've cut out the most important section for you below, but I suggest reading through a lot of those articles.

"Sit in a relaxed and upright posture, with straight spine, open chest, hands resting naturally on the thighs. To take such a posture already expresses the genuine dignity of being human. To remain in that posture during the ups and downs of our thought and emotional processes expresses the fundamental confidence of trusting in unconditional goodness. The eyes are open [or closed] with soft gaze, slightly down, and we take the same attitude to the other senses-open but not fixed or harshly string to experience something. As we sit there, we allow our minds to identify with the outgoing breath, to go out with it, and then to return to be attentive to the posture as the breath comes in. As thoughts, feelings, and physical sensations begin to pop up, we note them and let them be as they are, not trying to push them away, or holding onto them and indulging them. We begin to become mindful of the precise details of our thought and perceptual processes and also aware of the relationship between them. A thought or feeling arises, and then it goes away. Where it arises from and whence it goes, who can say? But occasionally we might catch a glimpse of non-thought, of open mind. A glimpse can be tremendously refreshing. It is such a relief to realize that we can afford to let go of our conceptualizing process altogether. Such a glimpse of our basic nature of unconditioned goodness brings with it a sense of gentleness and tenderness toward ourselves. "

There is also an excellent guided meditation (and lecture) by Jon Kabat-Zinn. I dont have access to youtube here so I cant get the direct link but it should be the first hit if you do a search on Youtube for "Google Meditation" (he is presenting at the google offices).

EDIT: I forgot to mention, you should practice for at least 30 minutes. And don't get dissuaded by the fact that you can't let the thought process settle (yet). If you find your mind has wandered or you have dosed off, just gently bring your attention back to the breath and begin the process again. Every time you notice this is a huge success for the practice. In terms of the body, try to be as relaxed as possible, just let go of all the tension (this will also happen relatively automatically as your awareness increases).

[Rik de Kort]

That extract is too wavey and dreamey for me, but meditation is an awesome thing.

[Quick Start Test Smith]

I have frequent insomnia too because of my irregular sleeping hours (freakin' night classes) but I tried meditation for about 10 minutes before bed last night and I went to sleep quite quickly!

[Kiyumars]

One method that helped me: Go to bed, and try to sleep. After fifteen minutes, get up and do something else, preferably in another room. Don't go to bed until you feel sleepy again. Then go back to bed, and see if you can fall asleep. If not, repeat the process.

This trains your mind to see the bed as a place where you do nothing but sleep (instead of a place where you lie down and begin to think a thousand thoughts). It takes a while, and I know it's a pain (who wants to get up from a comfy bed?), but it helped me a lot. Don't use a watch or an alarm to time your fifteen minutes, but guess it by feeling.

[Joshua Naterman]

2 major issues I see right away:

1) Room is not cold. Believe it or not, there is good research showing very consistently that a cold room causes us to sleep better than a warm room.

2) No carbs before bed. Forget conventional wisdom, have 60-ish g of very slow carbs before bed. Even better, have 60-70g of very slow carbs and some somewhat fatty meat together.

Think about it: Your liver only has enough carbs for a few hours before it starts to limit glycogen release and increase the rate of GNG and ketogenesis. As a quick explanation, this happens because your liver is the only sugar source for your brain. For your body, really, but your brain is the important part. Think what would happen if your liver just let itself empty out... you would die after 7-8 hours of not eating. That's why all these other systems are there: as failsafes.

Back on topic: What you are doing is causing a temporary increase in metabolism (turning protein into carbs costs a lot of energy) AND reaching a state where your body WANTS to be fed carbs. Of course you're not going to go to sleep easily!

The light suggestions are right on point, and so is the meditation. You don't even need a script, the key is to simply concentrate on your breathing for 10-15 minutes. They actually sell devices for this exact purpose, so that you sort of have a pace to go at. Research with this has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that this has a major effect on how easily people with insomnia can fall asleep.

[Mats Trane]

2) No carbs before bed. Forget conventional wisdom, have 60-ish g of very slow carbs before bed. Even better, have 60-70g of very slow carbs and some somewhat fatty meat together.

Josh, this might be my problem. What du you suggest to eat? Would some buckwheat do it?

Thanks

Mats

[Joshua Naterman]

2) No carbs before bed. Forget conventional wisdom, have 60-ish g of very slow carbs before bed. Even better, have 60-70g of very slow carbs and some somewhat fatty meat together.

Josh, this might be my problem. What du you suggest to eat? Would some buckwheat do it?

Thanks

Mats

Yes, but oatmeal with whole milk works too. So does some real butter with sweet potato (no sugar, but cinnamon is up to you!), or even plain old rice with 3-4g of psyllium husk sprinkled on top. The primary goal is just to have the slowest possible absorption time, so you want a mix of whole food protein (or casein, if you wish) and long chain fatty acids and low GI carbs (these will always have 4-6g of soluble fiber per 40-50g of carb serving).

You can "make" them low GI by just adding 2-4g of psyllium husk sprinkled on top. If you cook stuff with the psyllium husk then it will turn into something that resembles rice pudding and digests ridiculously slowly if you put too much. Can be pretty good, but can also scare the crap out of you if you aren't expecting it. I have found that cooking the carbs and then sprinkling the fiber works just fine and doesn't interfere with food texture at all.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

(...) can also scare the crap out of you (...)

Literally!

[Larry Roseman]

2) No carbs before bed. Forget conventional wisdom, have 60-ish g of very slow carbs before bed. Even better, have 60-70g of very slow carbs and some somewhat fatty meat together.

Josh, this might be my problem. What du you suggest to eat? Would some buckwheat do it?

Thanks

Mats

Actually it's funny because I slept 10 hours last night, and dreamed about a "Gymnastics for Tennis" camp in Florida.

Dr. Naterman was the clinican down there! My body was manipulated into more effective playing configurations.

Thanks for that. It better work because I flew down there skipping my birthday celebration. REM sleep is awesome

That said, I can see that very low liver glycogen might be an issue waking up early morning, however your problem is not being able to fall asleep. You lay in bed for 3 hours or so, but then fall asleep. In the meantime your liver glycogen is *lower* then, compared when you tried to fall asleep initially. So not seeing that as the initial problem myself, though a bed time snack is often relaxing and worth trying.

[Joshua Naterman]

Awesome! GfT! It even has a cool acronym You definitely had cooler dreams than mine this time... I don't remember anything except wanting an extra 2 hours to sleep!

Fin, he stays away from carbs for multiple hours before that even starts I am willing to bet 10 bucks that he probably doesn't get enough carbs as it is, if he is that "carb conscious." It just makes me think that this could be an issue.

I know that for me, it's a combination of needing carbs and just needing calories, but man those carbs make it easier to go to sleep. For me. I don't sleep as well if I just drink a quart of milk and have some peanut butter... I need to have those carbs. You never know, but it's always worth trying.

[Mats Trane]

Thanks Josh! I´ll definetly try it. I also heard of people having a Pwo before bed, what do you think of that?

[Joshua Naterman]

Way better than nothing! Try it and see! When I was on the ship and super active all day, I had to have 30-40g of casein if I wanted to sleep through to morning as well as raid the galley before bed. Otherwise I couldn't sleep AND I'd wake up in a few hours... ugh. What a nighmare. It was bad enough to deal with the shoulder waking me randomly through the night without dealing with unworldly hunger

A slower protein in the PWO would probably serve you well, but use what you've got and see how you like it. I will stand by the slow carbs, though. I wouldn't do maltodextrin BUT that doesn't mean it won't work.

[Mats Trane]

Thanks again, I´ll start out with some carbs. I realy have to be able to go to sleep.

[Larry Roseman]

Awesome! GfT! It even has a cool acronym You definitely had cooler dreams than mine this time... I don't remember anything except wanting an extra 2 hours to sleep!

Fin, he stays away from carbs for multiple hours before that even starts I am willing to bet 10 bucks that he probably doesn't get enough carbs as it is, if he is that "carb conscious." It just makes me think that this could be an issue.

I know that for me, it's a combination of needing carbs and just needing calories, but man those carbs make it easier to go to sleep. For me. I don't sleep as well if I just drink a quart of milk and have some peanut butter... I need to have those carbs. You never know, but it's always worth trying.

That dream was atypical. Usually they are sureal. This was like super-real and practical - nice for a change.

Also shows you a forum like this is as real as real can be, to the mind.

It could be an issue. When it comes to sleep it's worth trying just about anything, the simplest things first. And that's a

potentially very simple solution. Hope it works!

[Joshua Naterman]

Me too, not sleeping is terrible!

My dreams often turn into some kind of superhero or at least super-powered team (of which I am a part, of course) getting into some crazy battles in malls or mountain ranges... very DBZ-ish but also clearly somewhat oriented towards my fandom of all things Phoenix (X-men). Sometimes it just gets super weird... but always fun!

[Rik de Kort]

Usually they are sureal. This was like super-real and practical - nice for a change.

You just remember the surreal dreams. Domhoff (one of the leading dream researchers) makes a very good case for the overall bizarrelessness of dreams in the book 'The New Science of Dreaming' (second volume, first chapter).

[Larry Roseman]

Me too, not sleeping is terrible!

My dreams often turn into some kind of superhero or at least super-powered team (of which I am a part, of course) getting into some crazy battles in malls or mountain ranges...

In other words, a typical day in the life of .... :wink: