Overhead pressing crossover to gymnastic strength?

[Edward Kaspar]

Hello all, long time lurker here but this is my first post.

For the past year or so I have been working out primarily with kettlebells, following Pavel's Rite of Passage program, which focuses mainly on the single military press. At a weight of around 65kgs (5'10", 21yrs old), I have progessed through the ROP with the 16kg bell, the 24kg bell and am currently doing the program with a 28kg bell. My goal for a while now has been to complete the ROP with the 32kg bell (75 reps per arm @ 1/2 bodyweight) which I believe I will be able to achieve by the end of this year/beginning of next year.

However, after buying BTGB and reading all the great info on this site/forums, I have become increasingly interested with gymnastics training and have begun integrating aspects of it into my current routine.

I'm itching to start following the programs outlined in BTGB, and can see myself converting almost entirely to gymnastics training,

but I still very much want to achieve my goal of completing the ROP with the 32kg bell.

My question is, if I ultimately wish to focus on gymnastics training, to what extent will spending the next 8-12 months on a press specialization program help/hinder this cause?

I understand that gymnastics requires a strong shoulder girdle/core, both of which I believe are improved by overhead pressing, but will the carryover from this be worth the time spent on it?

thanks for your time

[Blairbob]

Do both. Consider RoP as strength endurance or conditioning. Do at end or a different time of day.

[Cole Dano]

If you've gone that far with ROP no reason to stop.

You can easily set up a Kilroy style program using the KB Military press as the Pushing element, add a pulling element the FSP work and some simpler push/pulls for warm up and you are good to go.

I came into GB from doing an ROP style program along with CC. I always enjoyed the Military Press. For quite some time I put the overhead press to the side, occasionally doing it for fun.

With my current set up, I'm doing it once a week on my HS day. I do it with dumbbells as I found the KBs to irritate my elbows when doing strict pressing.

[Edward Kaspar]

thank you both for your replying, I think that I will begin to integrate the FSP work and the basic support positions I saw Joshua Naterman discuss in another thread, and hopefully establish a solid foundation for focusing on gymnastic training in the near future.

I will look into the Killroy program Cole Dano and see if I can adapt it to my training. I should have mentioned that I am doing pullups with the ROP as suggested by Pavel. to anyone unfamiliar with the program it involves pressing ladders with the same weight gradually builing up volume over the weeks, ie:

press bell once, do one pullup, press bell twice, do two pullups, press bell 3 times, do three pullups, and then repeat this ladder five times.

eventually the ladders increase to 5(1,2,3,4,5) which results in 75 presses per arm and 75 pullups. Obviously this is a ton of volume which is why I am hesitant to do much other work for fear of overtraining, especially in the shoulders, although I understand the FSP's aren't particularly physically draining? how many days do you recommend integrating the FSP's a week? I seem to remember reading 4-5 times although I could be wrong on this.

again, thanks for your replies.

@Cole Dano, to what extend do you feel the ROP style program benefited your transition to gymnastic training?

[Edward Kaspar]

Interesting that you find KB presses to irritate your elbows Cole, I have found that the KB's off center of gravity help immensely in keeping the shoulders down and back throughout the press and achieving a solid lockout, i'll experiment with dumbell presses and see if they are any easier on the elbows.

[Cole Dano]

It's very hard to say how much military press carries over. Many would say there is more carry over going the other way from bodyweight to lifting.

For me it's more that I think doing a few select things with weights is also good. I need more time to say how much carryover to HeSPU there is if any for me.

Now, with the ROP. Obviously the weight you lift goes up, but the pull stays the same. Consider using the pull up progression in BtGB and varying your pull accordingly.

Warm up with some push ups and rows again selected from the variants offered in the book.

I agree the KB is great for learning proper lifting form. Particularly the lat pack. My wife bought me a set of very nice rotating handle DBs for christmas. I was surprised that I dropped 4kg in what I could lift with them, they are different. I was also surprised that my elbows loved having the weight centered on top. Since then I haven't been able to go back. In fact I just tried lifting my 24kg and it just felt awful. That's not a condemnation, we get used to what we get used to is all, they are different, just like bodyweight work is different. I do think that DB pressing will carry over to gymnastic work more because the weight in perched over the hand in a more similar way.

I do think KB is an excellent tool. Very good for learning all forms of lifting. Not so technical, or it naturally guides one to good technique. Still where it shines is high rep ballistic work.

[Nic Branson]

Interesting Cole. I find the KB tends to be more helpful for the majority of people. Though I do believe that this is due to the natural effect of it opening the shoulders more. Perhaps when mobility is not an issue and is thoroughly maintained with other methods the DB takes over...I feel an experiment coming on.

[Cole Dano]

I agree the KB imposes form on a trainee. I'm glad it's where I started when I began to bring weight into my training.

My observations about DB vs KB are a sample of one. I'd be curious what others find.