Successful change up

[Kyle Devlin]

I just recently changed my diet (almost a new years resolution) and the change has been to the magnificent Paleo diet. My diet prior to this was the "I work out, I eat anything I what when I'm hungry." I actually never really felt the significance of a good diet, and never needed to. Since I'm still a teenager, my youthful metabolism had allows saved my rear. Other than having a nagging sweet tooth, I've been happy with what I eat. Oh, and the benefits are super nice also.

I only really have been on the Paleo diet for little over a month, but that contributes the almost immediate visible side effects. I had previously weighed over 155lbs and now I weigh less than 150lbs every time I check. I have noticed a wonderful increase in energy and overall strength. I figure that the weight loss is fat since I can now see veins in places where they weren't before, and progression is a bit more... Progressive.

Ultimately, its been pretty good lately. But I am getting some bad protein farts, and I pretty much battle my sweet tooth every night. The change itself is a bit challenging since I live in house that eats rice in every meal.

Oh, and some nights I'm hungry every second even after I eat. Is that because of the lack of starch or whatever? I haven't really looked into it.

[Joshua Naterman]

Describe a typical day of eating. Try to be as specific as possible. For example, don't say steak. Say "200g of steak" or 1/2 lb of steak, something like that. Try not to leave anything out, even if it is embarrassing to you (often the case when we "slip up" or take liberties with our diets).

Try to give the approximate time of day, accurate to the half hour if possible but certainly hour. If you know you ate from 9-10am that's fine, just say 9am-10am : beef, veggies, two pop tarts anda glass of milk. Or whatever, that's just an example.

This will help us help you.

[Mats Trane]

I only really have been on the Paleo diet for little over a month, but that contributes the almost immediate visible side effects. I had previously weighed over 155lbs and now I weigh less than 150lbs every time I check. I have noticed a wonderful increase in energy and overall strength. I figure that the weight loss is fat since I can now see veins in places where they weren't before, and progression is a bit more... Progressive.

Same happened to me. Awsome

Ultimately, its been pretty good lately. But I am getting some bad protein farts, and I pretty much battle my sweet tooth every night. The change itself is a bit challenging since I live in house that eats rice in every meal.

Thats totally different from me, when I stopped eat bread, oatmeal, pasta etc I stopped farting!

Oh, and some nights I'm hungry every second even after I eat. Is that because of the lack of starch or whatever? I haven't really looked into it.

This happened to me too. Have a bag of walnuts, almounds and dry fruit to stop your hunger.

[Kyle Devlin]

Thanks for the replies.

Do to school, its not extremely hard to remember my eating times.

I begin my day at about 6a.m. On the clock. I immediately wake up and eat, 90% of the time, two eggs and approx 200g of beef or chicken. Sometimes I add 50g of nuts, like almonds or pecans.

Then.... I go through school until about 3p.m. And I pretty much fast that entire time. I don't eat all of 9 hours. At this point I eat from 300g to 500g of varied meat. Chicken, ribs, beef, or fish. I usually eat different kinds to amount to about that much meat, then I'm full. But I tend to add a handful of easy to easy fruit, like strawberries, blueberries, ect. And MAYBE another handful of nuts.

At 3:30 to 4, in that area, I'll begin to get ready for my workout. I will eat some things like raisins, grapes, or other "treats" and then I will take my supplements and immediately workout. I drink around 300ml of water throughout my workout.

Now my diet starts to become less structured. I will eat small amounts (one handful) of "treats" or maybe a banana or apple about 30 minutes after my workout. I'll also add a protein drink of about 10-15g of protein that I drink over the next hour or so.

At around 7 p.m. or so, I'll eat decently large meal of a couple hundred grams of a meat or fish, and maybe 100g of greens. Plus, let's say 3 handfuls, of fruits.

Now nothing is concrete. After dinner, for the next 3-4 hours, I "snack" almost constantly sometimes. Yes, I go to sleep at around midnight. If I'm feeling exceptionally weak willed, I will eat a lot of fruits. Sometimes I snack on a variety of nuts or more meat.

Then it restarts. I only drink water, and rarely drink coconut water because I don't have it often. I never eat grains now, and on cheat days. (Sunday) I will cheat with ice cream or dumb stuff like condiments. On weekends, I workout earlier and wake up later, so I don't fast while I'm awake. But they are structured about the same, since I usually have free time, I might experiment with food recipes and have a different diet. Like I'll make wheat free pancakes or chocolate or something.

[Kyle Devlin]

I will add that I do slip up sometimes. I'll eat yogurt, not Greek, maybe some sauces and sometimes I turn a blind eye to foods with added sugar. I don't always cook my food, so sometimes whoever is cooking will marinade meat in a lot of stuff. Its very hard to avoid, but I try my best.

[MH87]

Hmm well it doesn't sound like you want to count calories, macros, stuff like that, so you can just add some protein shakes to your diet to begin with and eat more meat, have some more veggies. Moar food! adjust as needed - depending on what you want?

[Blairbob]

Something that is often noted with going Paleo is consuming less calories than before.

[MH87]

Yeah. That explains his weight loss. Simply calories in, calories out..

I also really dislike the term paleo.. But that's another discussion.

Btw HollowDevl if you are having breakfast there is no need to fast afterwards. If you want to do intermittent fasting I suggest bringing your breakfast to school, and breaking your fast by 12 o clock.. Works like a charm. or just bring some shakes to school so you don't go that long without any meals after your breakfast. Easy to pack.

[Joshua Naterman]

You are carbohydrate deficient in your diet, and your body is making up for it by changing a large part of the protein you are consuming into carbohydrates. That much is clear. Everyone is also correct in stating that you are operating on a calorie deficit.

For a short period of time, like 2-3 months, this excessive protein intake isn't a big deal. it's a lot of stress on your body, particularly the kidneys, but as long as there is no underlying kidney problem or inherited tendency for such problems you shouldn't have any short term issues and it is probably helping your body to reset insulin sensitivity.

I will strongly encourage you, after this period of adaptation, to spread the meat very evenly throughout the day along with carbohydrates. I will suggest that you take 4-8 weeks to slowly phase into a diet that has 150-ish grams of protein spread evenly throughout the day along with 30-40g of carbs at every meal. Don't use any true grains, with the exception of brown rice which is all right if you wish. Buckwheat is an excellent substitute for the grains. So are potatoes, sweet potatoes, yams, and pretty much any other non-grain starchy vegetable. Those should be the bulk of your carb calories, with the true veggies (greens, squash, etc) used as a proper vitamin/mineral supplement. Eat as many as you can, you will be hard pressed to get more than 500 calories a day from true vegetables.

What is your height and weight? I can't make a reasonable ballpark minimum number of carbs for you without that.

[Kyle Devlin]

Thank you all for the replies, its very hard to have time to eat during school so I just invariably fast. I also do notice, that the carbs that I do get are from fruits and added sugar.

If I am not consuming enough carbs, shouldn't that mean I should shy away from protein shakes?

I am on average 148lbs and I'm 5'11. Also it might help to know that I'm 15.

[Joshua Naterman]

Wow. If you're 15 you need to have as much protein as you can tolerate without farting, spread evenly throughout the day. Farting means you are taking so much in that your body can't absorb it all. Usually spreading the protein out makes this go away, but you are seriously taking in an enormous amount.

Because of your age you are on natural steroids right now, so your growth rate and protein utilization is above normal (at least potentially). That's going to last for a few years, so take advantage of it while you can. Things do slow down, I can tell you from personal experience. more later.

[Kyle Devlin]

Okay, so I just have to eat more carbs with my meals and spread out my protein intake. Solid!

Like MH87 gave advise to, I probably should address the fact that I fast when I sleep, then break it, then fast again. Maybe that isn't a very good idea? If so, would it be in my best interest to drink protein shakes throughout that time? I might try the 12 hour fast, but it would be hard to do that.

[Joshua Naterman]

Okay, so I just have to eat more carbs with my meals and spread out my protein intake. Solid!

Like MH87 gave advise to, I probably should address the fact that I fast when I sleep, then break it, then fast again. Maybe that isn't a very good idea? If so, would it be in my best interest to drink protein shakes throughout that time? I might try the 12 hour fast, but it would be hard to do that.

By far the best thing for you to do will be to get as many clean calories as you can, starting with the bare minimums as follows:

Protein: 100g per day. This should really be about 160g per day for maximum results, going beyond this will almost certainly have no positive effect unless you like expensive stinky farts.

Carbs: 160g per day minimum. That is absolute bare minimum, if you are laying on your back all day. Assuming you are working out 4-5x per week you will need a minimum of 200g of carbs. That is bare, bare minimum. Does not include what you burn during exercise.

Calories so far, just from these nutrients: at minimum, 260 * 4 = 1040 calories. That's really not enough, this is just maintenance for laying on your butt and burning body fat while not losing much or any muscle. This is assuming that 100% of these calories comes from protein and carbs, spread evenly across the day. This is not your lifestyle.

A more realistic baseline for you is 360g (160g protein + the minimum 200g carbs) * 4 calories per gram = 1440 calories.

That is your starting point. That MUST be in your diet in order for you to function optimally and make good gains. Get creative on how to do this... Sip protein between classes, so that you have 10g per hour and not more. Or, have some kind of protein snack (half a beef patty or some sandwich meat or whatever) that gives 10g for each hour you won't eat. If you need to go from 8-11am without eating, have 30g of meat protein and 40-60g of slow carbs between classes. Oatmeal packets are amazingly useful for this, as are brown rice or sweet potatoes but don't use the ones with sugar. If nothing else, have that protein. Energy bars do not count, their carbs are all fast. You need slow carbs pretty much all the time. Even after a workout, a fit body uses slow carbs nearly as well as fast carbs so there is no need to worry about that.

From here (the baseline we established of 1440 calories coming from 160g of protein and 200g slow carbs), you want all your extra food to be carbohydrates. There will be fat inherently in the diet from the meat you eat and the oil or butter you cook veggies with, so don't worry about that. You don't actually need dietary fat beyond a few grams with each meal to ensure full absorption of vitamins A,D,E and K. You don't need to worry about the fat but don't actively look for it.

Assuming you follow what I am suggesting with the nutrient timing and eat a wide variety of vegetables (as many different colors as you can, perhaps focusing on one or two colors per day and cycling between them over the course of a week), you will always be ridiculously lean and able to put on muscle as well as strength pretty much at will.

[Kyle Devlin]

Thank you so much for the reply. As much as I would like to be as efficient as possible with your suggestions, for convenience sake, I'm going to have to split up my intake into 5 meals, with snaking. I would like to find time, but on top of some inconveniences, I also want to abide by social educate. I don't want to be constantly consuming things around a lot of my peers.

So, for breakfast, I can eat a protein rich meal. Then I will try to get a decent amount of protein and some very slow digesting carbs for lunch. I will get my next meal and it will be protein and some... faster digesting carbs like fruit? Because its close to my workout. After my workout, my meal should be a bit more protein, but mainly veggies and fruit? Then for dinner, I will eat mainly sorts of veggies and a my last bit of protein for the day?

Precise amounts won't be made until I realize how much I actually snack, but I'm guessing (if my new idea for a structured diet even works) that I will have a general amount for each meal based on the max 160g of protein, and minimum 200g of carbs.

If I'm not understanding something, please tell. Because this is pretty much what had gotten past my thick skull.

[Joshua Naterman]

Thank you so much for the reply. As much as I would like to be as efficient as possible with your suggestions, for convenience sake, I'm going to have to split up my intake into 5 meals, with snaking. I would like to find time, but on top of some inconveniences, I also want to abide by social educate. I don't want to be constantly consuming things around a lot of my peers.

So, for breakfast, I can eat a protein rich meal. Then I will try to get a decent amount of protein and some very slow digesting carbs for lunch. I will get my next meal and it will be protein and some... faster digesting carbs like fruit? Because its close to my workout. After my workout, my meal should be a bit more protein, but mainly veggies and fruit? Then for dinner, I will eat mainly sorts of veggies and a my last bit of protein for the day?

Precise amounts won't be made until I realize how much I actually snack, but I'm guessing (if my new idea for a structured diet even works) that I will have a general amount for each meal based on the max 160g of protein, and minimum 200g of carbs.

If I'm not understanding something, please tell. Because this is pretty much what had gotten past my thick skull.

I think that's a very practical way to do things. Having 30-ish grams of protein at each of those meals in the form of meat (preferably with 5-10% fat so it doesn't digest super quickly but realistically whatever you can get is fine), along with the slow carbs should do you just right. Try to have some veggies too!

My friends all understand why I am always eating, but I can understand your position as well You will do just fine, nothing to worry about. As far as the fast carbs around your workout, try it with fast and slow carbs and see how you feel. You may find that the fast carbs get in your system too quickly and cause you to feel drained unless you are having them around 10-15 minutes before the workout. Earlier than that, you would probably feel better with slow carbs. It's all about what makes you feel the best in the gym! Having enough water is a HUGE part of that.

[Kyle Devlin]

Thanks slizzardman, I'm now spreading out my protein a lot more and have an increased my carb intake too.

I eat breakfast, then three hours later I have a little over 20g of protein in a shake. Then about three hours after that I get around 15-20g of protein with approx 50g of carbs. Four hours after that, I eat like 30g of protein without many carbs. About 2 hours afterward, I have 30-40g of protein with some carbs.. Two hours after, another meal with mainly veggies. Then last is a meal two hours later with mainly veggies again.

There is a general outline of my day now. I have only done this two days, but I expect to keep up with having a lot of meals. Its not in every detail, but you get the idea.

I make bars with protein and oats, and they are super convenient for my lunch.

Also, sometimes after not having them in a while, sweet potatoes make me think that they are made from the gods... Actually, its like that with a lot of food.

[Joshua Naterman]

Excellent! Make sure you have protein with every meal. Very important. Doesn't matter whether it is whey or meat or milk or *gasp* soy, though I am NOT recommending soy. Just be sure you get it at a rate of 8-10g per hour that you are eating for. If you won't eat again for 3-4 hours get 30g of protein. 2 hours = 16-20g, etc. Don't take more than 30g at one time, you will not use it all as protein. You WILL absorb it all, but the excess will simply be turned into carbs and a very small amount of fat.

[Rikke Olsen]

This may be a stupid question, but when talking carbs, are fibers supposed to be subtracted?

100g of broccoli = 6,6 carbs, and 2,8 of these are fibers; should I then only count the 3,8g or all 6,6g?

[Joshua Naterman]

That's a good question. You may as well not count them, because they have almost no caloric value in humans.

That, by the way, is why broccoli is a vitamin/mineral source and not a good energy source... virtually no calories. That goes for most vegetables in general.

[Rikke Olsen]

Well, I'm female, and not a too big one, so I don't need a whole lot of carbs, yet can actually put away pretty impressive amounts of food, lol

Though, not much of the carbs in vegetables are starch, right? Would it be preferable to have it in starch, or does the body pretty easily convert the veggie carbs into starch?

Anyways, thanks!

[Joshua Naterman]

Well, I'm female, and not a too big one, so I don't need a whole lot of carbs, yet can actually put away pretty impressive amounts of food, lol

Though, not much of the carbs in vegetables are starch, right? Would it be preferable to have it in starch, or does the body pretty easily convert the veggie carbs into starch?

Anyways, thanks!

you will always perform your best when you are getting 30% of your resting metabolism (RMR) as carbohydrates, spread evenly through the day, with the amount of energy you burn in exercise (adjusted for ration of carbs if you like, so for calisthenics about 80% of what you burn came from carbs and should be replaced with carbs), and if these carbs are all slow-digesting sources like sweet potatoes, buckwheat, barley (whole barley, not pearled), yams, etc then you will have no trouble looking absolutely stunning as well.

You don't need to be scared of starch, that's just the plant version of glycogen. They are long, slow-digesting glucose polymers. There are good starches and bad starches, like anything else, but your bad starches are going to be the enriched grains or pastas or flours, and white flour in general because it is in such small particles. As long as you're getting natural foods that are mostly 60 or lower on the glycemic index you should actually be fine. You should be eating small meals, every 1-3 hours. 3 hours is really the outside limit, but it's also more practical for most people. I woudn't worry about those details as much as the big picture!

As for veggies, don't worry about starch vs not starch. Get your different colors at least once a week, know the caloric value and try not to have more than 40g of carbs in one sitting and you should be fine. If you are very active or it's after a workout you are ok for up to 100g or so of carbs per hour but you'll do better with that if you break that into three 33g meals consumed 20 minutes apart. Seriously.

Outside of that, get your protein spread across the day and don't be afraid to pan-fry some veggies with butter or bacon grease or olive oil or whatever oil you like. Unless you are drenching your food you don't need to worry about the fat, it will actually help you absorb the fat-soluble vitamins. It only takes a few grams of fat to optimize absorption of these vitamins.

There are other ways, of course, but they are all working against the natural mechanisms of the body and each bear a price to pay. Sometimes they are a good idea in the short term but not really ideal for long term habits.

[Rikke Olsen]

Wow, thank you for painting it out like that!

The reason I asked about starch vs. non-starch is that 30% of my RMR seems, ATM, to be around 125g of carbs, which would be quite easily, for me, covered by veggies if I counted fibers. Without, I guess I'll need some heavier sources. Should go up to 150 once I move and get some things sorted out, though

Btw, have you heard of the African food, garri/eba/fufu? It's dried, fermented cassava root. It tastes a little sour, though, but I reckon is should be good? It's pretty cheap, too.