Required strength for FBE SSC

[Deyan Popov]

I am trying to follow a killroy-like template 3 days/week. As prescribed by The Book and by killroy, I do 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps.

I was planning to do SSC for the FBEs, however instead of getting easier they are getting harder each week. First week the exercises felt good. For example I did 3x3 for L pullups, but could have done at least 4x4.

I think that I have miscalculated the load. Could you guys propose some guidelines how much initial strength is required to start FBE SSC at 3x3 ? Probably something along the lines of "if your maximum ability for the FBE is 3x6, start SSC at 3x3".

[Blairbob]

I think that I have miscalculated the load. Could you guys propose some guidelines how much initial strength is required to start FBE SSC at 3x3 ? Probably something along the lines of "if your maximum ability for the FBE is 3x6, start SSC at 3x3".

Did you test the FBE's beforehand to know exactly where you were before. And yes, SSC should use 50% of max intensity.

What programming were you doing prior to the Killroy70 program?

[Deyan Popov]

Thanks for the clarification, Blairbob.

As you suggest, I will test my FBE max and start at 3 sets of 50% of my max reps. If my max is less than 6 reps, I will go back to the previous progression step and do 5x5 for 4 weeks, then retest.

A few more questions:

Do I need to put the program on hold for a full week to retest all FBEs ? Am I allowed to do FSPs in that week ?

While at 5x5 and not being able to meet the 6 rep minimum for the next step, should I add small weight increments (2-5 lbs) to make some improvement or just stick with bodyweight to give my body time to fully adapt ? Do I need to retest FBE max before increasing reps ? When should I increase the number of sets ?

(Sorry if the above sounds like an interrogation. I just have a mathematical background and I am a detail freak. :oops: )

The last several years I have been on an ad-hoc routine of pullups, dips and dumbbell exercises (I have one adjustable dumbbell at home). Best achievements are: 10 pullups, 12 chinups, 15 dips. My own routine did not give me much improvement for the last few years, so I decided it is time to try something new in 2012.

For FSPs the book & the forum are pretty clear on how to program SSC. I did max test on the FSP prerequisites and started at 50% for 4-8 sets 3 times per week. So far FSPs are going well, they are becoming somewhat easier each week.

However I was not really sure how to do FBE SSC. I did not tested FBE max. Just looked at the progression, selected an exercise that I can do relatively well and decided to try the next step in the progression. For example I have been able to do 10 dead hang pullups for a few years, so I thought I'd try L pullup at 3x3.

Here is my FBE routine:

Tuesday: 3x5 diamond pushups (+10kg plate), 3x5 tuck front lever rows, 3x3 leg-assisted russian dips, 3 sets of db curls

Thursday: 3x5 SLS graduated, 3x5 SL deadlift

Saturday: 3x3 pike pushups (box HeSPU are still too hard), 3x3 L pullups, Wendler's 531 for pullups, 531 one arm db press

[Blairbob]

A FBE SSC will not change reps per set over the cycle. If you start with 3 reps, you end 8-12 weeks later with 3 reps. It does not progress from a 3x3 to 5x5 over the course of the cycle. That programming is used in the Killroy70 program but it is not SSC.

This is one of the reasons I always say test everything before starting a SSC generally dedicating a few days if necessary to work through all the necessary tests. However, I, on occasion have tested an FBE for max reps and ended up using work sets of 50% of that for the rest of the sets on Day1. It is not optimal or proper, but I have done it before. It also kinda sucked for the next 2-4 sets. I was generally fine by the next workday (which when I've done it was the next day as I used a MTuThS 4d/wk program).

In your current FBE program, you are only working each exercise 1/week. Meh, IMO, especially when your work set is only 50% of max. Your gains over a cycle won't be as great.

Are you using Wendler 531 programming for rep ranges/sets for the pullups. With a max of 10 pullups, are you using them weighted or just BW reps?

[Deyan Popov]

The possibility of adding one more rep to my max every 8-12 weeks sounds awesome. I don't think I can progress faster than that - I am not 18 anymore :wink:

Do you suggest while on SSC to do the same FBEs every workout like with FSPs ?

Yes, I am using 531 for regular pullups. To calculate the 100% 1RM, add my bw (~70kg) + a few plates in a backpack. I can do 10 bodyweight pullup reps at 70kg, which means my 1RM is somewhere around 90kg (bw + 20kg). Every four weeks I change the type of pullups (kind of Westside style). I rotate between wide grip pullups, chinups and regular pullups. I have different 100% 1RM for each type of pullups. When I do more than expected on each of the last sets every week, I will increase the 100% 1RM with 2-5kg for the next cycle. So far I have done it for four months and it feels good. I like 531 because it gives an exact progression and I don't have to think about whether I am pushing too fast.

[Blairbob]

On a SSC you can focus on doing the same FBEs in addition to the FSP's.

I've done SSC doing an FBE movement twice a week, once a week on all planes and 4x/week.

[Deyan Popov]

How many different FBEs do you perform when training them them 2x or 4x week ? How long does the FBE part of your workout usually last ?

I can't always find large stretches of time. That is why my workouts take about 30-40 min and I do two of them per day, 3 x week.

[Blairbob]

Well, I have generally had 2-3 1/2 hours of time devoted to training in the gymnastics gym after coaching. 8-11 maybe 12 and starting at 830 or 9.

A lot of this time was also dedicated to mobility and event time.

Time required for a FBE SSC may be something along this.

4 progressions (1 pull/push/leg/core). Rest times of 60-90s.

Each FBE would use 2 periods of rest. That's 120s. Approxiamately 15-20s in execution. So total that is 3m. Then there is another rest period of about 1m till the next FBE. There are 3 of those. Another 3m.

4x3=12m+3m=15m. That's under super efficient conditions. No water/bathroom breaks or equipment setup. And only 60s of rest. So it's best to probably figure around 20m at most. This is with 3 sets per FBE. 5 sets probably pushes toward 30m but I would have to recalculate it.

If you set them up as a circuit, there can be roughly 5-15s of rest in between each FBE. Take 90-120s of rest afterwards.

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3 rest periods = 4.5m-6m of rest. 3x10x3=90s of in between rest. 15sx4x3=180s which 3m. So that means a circuit can be done in 7.5-9m of time.

[Deyan Popov]

As you recommended I measured my FBE maxes this week. And here is the "verdict":

It looks like I have gone overboard with russian dips (max=5) and diamond pushups (max=7).

Also it looks like I need a coffee on Saturday morning before training (as I normally do on workdays). Without waking up properly, the perceived effort used to be much higher (stupid me ). Max for L chinups is 10 (dead hang + touching chest to bar on every rep) and max for pike pushups is also 10 (nice and easy).

Thanks, Blairbob, for guiding me in the right direction.

Without a coach it is easy to get confused and not see the forest for the trees.