Started by RatioFitness, January 20, 2012 · 86 Replies · 29,619 Views
They have an article recommending l-sits and front levers.
That's good, but apparently the author hasn't actually trained anyone to achieve a front lever, because the guy on the video can only do one for a split second. If I'm wrong about that then I apologize and stand corrected, but they should of at least demoed the move with someone who can hold it for a few seconds.
Amazing audacity. The authors take progressions and quotes directly out of BtGB without giving due credit.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
Hmm definitely seems to be a clear case of plagiarism to me :shock:
Nilan said:Hmm definitely seems to be a clear case of plagiarism to me :shock:
Especially when I have the receipt of their recent purchase of BtGB thru my online store. 8)
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
Seriously sad, why wouldn't you just point to BtGB...must be an ego thing :roll:
Coach Sommer said:Nilan said:Hmm definitely seems to be a clear case of plagiarism to me :shock:Especially when I have the receipt of their recent purchase of BtGB thru my online store. 8)
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
Oh, man... that's really sad.
I find this particularly off putting because of how great my experience with this site and coach's training materials has been. Having come from the world of overhyped, marginally effective kettle bell training, the no-nonsense, honest, and outstandingly presented gymnastic material I've found here is more welcome and refreshing than I can express. Gymnastics strength training is the real deal, and coach is the man from whom you want to learn it. If anything I feel as though the resources here are under-hyped. I paid my $100 or so dollars, got my book and rings, have received more generous help from more experienced athletes on this page than I could recount, and have not been solicited once about buying the next big thing. Beyond that, coach takes te time to post a new workout so I barely have to think at all. I've never encountered that type of value in the world of fitness before, nor anywhere else for that matter.
My only complaint is that I'm impatiently awaiting the other books in the series. I guess that's what I get though for subscribing to a professional in the field of gymnastics rather than exercise book writing for profit. I'll deal with it!
Am i missing something, the end of page one says -
Below are three gymnastics-based exercises that will give you the biggest bang for your buck.
Yet there are only two exercises in the article L-Sit and Front Lever. Lot's of flowery language as well, but i guess this is just standard stuff in that industry.
Cole Dano said:Am i missing something, the end of page one says -Below are three gymnastics-based exercises that will give you the biggest bang for your buck.Yet there are only two exercises in the article L-Sit and Front Lever. Lot's of flowery language as well, but i guess this is just standard stuff in that industry.
Just goes to show the time and attention to detail the writers put into the article...
Amateurs! They are wearing shoes!
Slizzardman has been arguing with them in the comments.
Does anyone care to point out the offending parts of the article? I noticed the 60s accumulated time when I read the article, but things like this can sometimes be tricky to say when it's appropriate to give credit.
Aushion Chatman said:Cole Dano said:Am i missing something, the end of page one says -Below are three gymnastics-based exercises that will give you the biggest bang for your buck.Yet there are only two exercises in the article L-Sit and Front Lever. Lot's of flowery language as well, but i guess this is just standard stuff in that industry.
Just goes to show the time and attention to detail the writers put into the article...
I'm doing my best to contain myself, i'll just say yes, lots of time went into that.
You only need to hold the FL for one or two seconds to claim it as yours
Really? Ironically i don't think that was even a second in the video clip.
And this is unfortunately exactly why there are not 1000+ books / programs on rings training, or any kind of true bodyweight
training for that matter.
When you can't patent it (like a medicine drug) or make big bucks out of it on a massive scale,
you can't really make money off of it unless you charge big bucks per sell.
So people rather invent a room full of useless fitness equipment and all kinds of magical muscle powders.
Thankfully there are these amazing people like Coach to give us an insight in the world of gymnastics
and created an affordable book and DVD set and a forum that is invaluable for us to practice practice practice.
P
Well on one hand it's great to see this kind of work getting exposure.
But this feels more like, jumping on what they think will be the next big thing.
For many of us here, even with modest accomplishments, we do it because we love it and are in it for the long haul. Training methodically, step by step.
This article has the feel of it being just some more glitz for a world affected with training ADD. I don't want to be too harsh though, T-nation is what it is, take the good with the bad. I doubt this will be the end.
Coach if you see this - more motivation!
What do you expect from meat heads with the IQ of a sloth? These are the same people that consider "progress" to mean the injection of mega dozes of hormones to "gain" muscle and "results." I think the best thing to do is flood this tacky website and article with as many negative comments as possible while at the same time pointing out that it was Coach Sommer who literally wrote the book on the subject.
One last thing, the next time you see one of these "tough guy" meat heads. . . L-Sit on his head and then kick him in the nuts. That'l show 'um. :twisted:
This is just typical of a mediocre site like T-nation. They've got a vague feeling that gymnastics is effective, but they have neither the expertise/originality to produce their own material nor the dedication to present their readers with a well-structured program.
Overall, pretty unpricipled behaviour.
With all due respect coach, if you're going to publicly accuse somebody of plagiarism then it's probably a good idea to support that accusation with specific quotes or excerpts. Otherwise it's nothing more than pointing fingers with no proof. If this was just a one-off forum thread that's one thing, but you also sent out an e-mail to your list regarding this. Since you brought this to *my* attention, I want to hear more now.
Ischmidt said:... With all due respect coach, if you're going to publicly accuse somebody of plagiarism then it's probably a good idea to support that accusation with specific quotes or excerpts. Otherwise it's nothing more than pointing fingers with no proof. If this was just a one-off forum thread that's one thing, but you also sent out an e-mail to your list regarding this. Since you brought this to *my* attention, I want to hear more now ...
I assume that any one who has read both BtGB and the t-nation article is quite capable of pulling those quotes out on their own without me holding their hand.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
They say imitation is the sincerest form of compliment. They obviously know who the expert is here. It is true as many have noted, its all about making a buck. There is no end to scams and it is very damaging. Like W.C. Fields said There is a sucker born any minute and whats that saying about separating a fool and his money!?
I am 60 in June and have advanced in strength more since I found this site then in the last 40 yrs!
Its good to see there are still ethics left in this world!
Good job coach and in the words of Jesus Leave them be, blind guides is what they are, so then if a blind man leads a blind man they will both fall into the pit. or as the words of a song all they are is dust in the wind.
Wow pretty deep huh????
See ya
I believe they did have sincere intentions, no doubt they read Coach's book, thought it was awesome and now they've written an article about how great gymnastics training is.
Instead of arguing with them over at T-nation I think we should give them positive reinforcement.
Instead of saying "You guys are criminals and plagarists and a disgrace to humanity"
Why don't we say: "Great article, we love gymanstics training too, in fact, coach sommers at www.gymnasticbodies.com has written a whole book on the topic. What would you think of replacing some of the videos you put up with some of the gymnastic bodies videos with professionals doing those moves? What would you think of putting up some more info on gymanstics training with a link to the gymanstic bodies site? What would you think of a guest article written by coach sommers himself?"
I agree with you all that they copied out of the book, but this is definitely a case where you can turn lemons into lemonade. I'd rather have T-nation be friends who reference and quote and direct to us all the time than enemies who are shy of dealing with us. I bet a lot of guys over there would be interested in buying choach's book.
Coach Sommer said:Ischmidt said:... With all due respect coach, if you're going to publicly accuse somebody of plagiarism then it's probably a good idea to support that accusation with specific quotes or excerpts. Otherwise it's nothing more than pointing fingers with no proof. If this was just a one-off forum thread that's one thing, but you also sent out an e-mail to your list regarding this. Since you brought this to *my* attention, I want to hear more now ...I assume that any one who has read both BtGB and the t-nation article are quite capable of pulling those quotes out on their own without me holding their hand.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
Not to try to "start something" or anything, but I've been side-by-side comparing the ebook and the article on t-nation, and have not found any IDENTICAL sections. There's a lot of similarity, but that's not the same as plagiarism.
I paid a visit to the front lever video on youtube from the article and left a comment recommending he buy Coach Sommers' book so he can learn to properly execute a front lever.. 
I didn't make any mention of plagiarizing, just that i was trying to offer some advice.. they definitely got their info from the book though.
Wikipedia' s definition of Plagiarism (notice how I gave credit to Wikipedia)
Plagiarism is defined in dictionaries as the "wrongful appropriation," "close imitation," or "purloining and publication" of another author's "language, thoughts, ideas, or expressions," and the representation of them as one's own original work.
So yes, It could be considered plagiarism.
However, I do agree with EricBowman in his previous post though.
... Why don't we say: "Great article, we love gymanstics training too, in fact, Coach Sommer at http://www.gymnasticbodies.com has written a whole book on the topic. What would you think of replacing some of the videos you put up with some of the gymnastic bodies videos with professionals doing those moves? What would you think of putting up some more info on gymanstics training with a link to the gymanstic bodies site? What would you think of a guest article written by Coach Sommer himself?" ... I agree with you all that they copied out of the book, but this is definitely a case where you can turn lemons into lemonade ...
I agree with this approach also. It is just, as I mentioned to someone else earlier today, I am simply tired of people "filing the serial numbers off" my work and then passing it off as their own.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
no doubt they are waiting for your next book to help them with their "next article"...lol