Gymnastic bodys and mma (serious question)

I have read very good things about this site and this kind off workouts.

I am a 51 year old martial artist and since the age off 15 I have practice all kind off martial arts. Since that I dont compete anymore I like to focus and work on things that I think will work in a real streetfight (Jeet Kune Do in my case).

Every monday evening I teach a group off adults the things that I have learned true all these years.

Since Internet I am quit confused about my supplementary training (strength, conditioning etc.)

I have tried so many routines with weights, without weights, bodybuilding routines etc. but most off the time I ended up beiing so sore or didnt have any energy left to train my martial arts the next day. So the only things that I did was the supplementary training.

When I was younger and did compete I never have done so mych strength etc. Just did the normal push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups, some cartwheels and handstands for fun and running two times a week.

I dont have time to train everday for hours because I have a full-time job, a family etc.

But off course I want to be as good shape as I can.

So after thinking much about it I came to the conclusion to stop with weights and to focus on bodyweight exercises.

I have read a lott about the bar-barians workouts (www.bar-barians.com) and I like that kind off training very much. I dont think that I need all these workous with weights etc. I think its because I never did when I was younger and I have never had the feeling that I needed it then.

Then I came about this site and I have read that there is a book out so I am very interested.

I have a few queations:

Are there any routines in that book that I can follow and that leaves enough energy and time left for my martial arts training?

Because I dont have hours a day to workout. I ask this because in the forum I read so much qestions about how to make a workout, how to stretch etc, so I wonder if this is not in that book.

Because I read to that most off the users follow the WOD. is that because the workouts in the book are not enough?

When I read the WOD's I dont get the feeling that it is simple to follow with all these names off exercises etc. Are all these exercises (for the WOD) explained in the book?

Do I need special equiment for these workouts because I can do dips, pul-ups etc but I dont know if I need other things.

How much time do you have to spend on all these exercises, off course I know that sometimes it takes more time then other times but just in general.

I think that mastering the body, espaccily the planche and that kind off stuff would be great for martial arts because you have to have total controll off your body. As I said before, I am 51, in reasonable shape becaues I always have trained but the most off the times martial arts, is it possible for me to porgress to the full planche etc?

Can I combine the workouts in the book (or the WOD's) with my martial arts training and running? How do you guys think off running?

Last question, I like pull-ups and dips etc because it give me a special feeling off strength. Are these the kind off exercises that are in the book to?

When you read Bar-barians they do about 100 to 200 pull-ups a day, 100 to 200 push-ups, 100 orso dips, 500 squats etc.

I read that the coach say to build up to a rep range off 5.

Do you still get stronger that way? Or is this all explained in the book?

Okay, thats all. Hope somebody can clear something up because what I have read so far I am very interested in this kind off training but I am not a gymnastic but a martial artist. And I dont hink its wise to spend training these kinds off workouts more then practicing martial arts.

Sorry for the bad writing by the way, its hard for me to write in a different language, I am from the Netherelands, do maybay some questions look stupid on paper but I hope you guys can see true it and can give me some advice.

Thanks in advantege.

Hello Lokate! I don't think I can answer all your questions, but I'll try to give you some hints... :wink:

Coach's book has not really "workouts routines" as listed in the WODs, but it's more focused on the explanation of each exercise in the first part, and then the explanation of the basis of a gymnastic training (You would learn how to construct your own routine...)

I don't actually do the WODs as I'm still building my basic strength (even if I would say I have an overall good fitness level) but I'm doing something more similar to the killroy70 template http://gymnasticbodies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1957. I'd say that this kind of training is keeping me busy about 40-50 minutes per workout (beacuse of the long rest time) and I do them when i have a free hour to spare (morning, evening...) After my routine I don't really feel exhausted and if I do them in the morning I can easily have my boxing workout in the evening without problems.

If you can do dips and pullups I'd say you have quite everything you could need... a pair of rings would allow you to do the more advanced progression. ...And if you like pull ups and dips, IMHO you'll love the book, as there are many variat of them which are really challenging.

For reps and set, general rule is that " low reps + high intensity = STRENGTH", "high reps + low intenisity (and if you can do 200 push up, that's mean that a single push up is really low intensity for your level) = ENDURANCE"

Well, I hope I could answer at some of your questions! Actually I'm enjoying my training even if i just started. I use to do 3 day boxing and 3 day my strength routine (5 days in total). After boxing workout I use to do some HIIT training or just run some intervals....

Have a nice try!

Charlie

For you, following the Killroy70 program probably work best.

A set of rings is handy but not exactly necessary. I think most of us would prefer that any user of GB would have a set of rings but it's not the end of the world, it just limits what you can do and progress to.

Thanks guys, for taking the time to react.

I must say that I like the killroy template, but to me it looks very technical with all these words like:

planche variations, BL variations etc. and when he gives a example off his workouts he says for example: horizontal plane pushing and pulling FBE, RTO dips etc etc, see the quote here:

I began with a very basic program, working out 4 days/week and working four static positions every day, which included:

1) planche variations

2) BL variations

3) FL variations

4) Handstand work

After I finish my static work for a given workout, which generally consisted of 7-10 sets of each movement, the remainder of my workout looked like this:

Day 1 - horizontal plane pushing and pulling FBE

Day 2 - curling (inverted pullup) and dipping variations (RTO dips, etc..) FBE

Day 3 - pullup and HeSPU variation FBE

Day 4 - multiplane pulling variaions + varied pressing work

Can somebody explain this in plane Englisch? How does such a workout look like when you do them. My Enlglisch is not that good but when I look true all these workouts (even the WOD's) its seems like abacadabra to me with all these terms.

And how many exercises are done for example on day 1 etc. As I said before. I have tried my best to reat true most off the post but it seems like everybody knows when people say to do RTE dips etc.

So it would be nice if somebody can write this routine in normal Englisch

And Chalrie you talk about the differents between the bar-barian way (doing for example 200 push-ups) and the Gymnastic body way. Does this mean that for example with the push-ups you do more sets (say 5 or 6) and do them very slowly?

And if so, what count do you handle then, 2 sec, down, 1 sec. stay down and 2 sec up or something else?

Again thank you both very much for reacting but it would be even greater if somebody can give me a example off how day 1 to day 4 would look like.

Well, I know that so many names and acronyms are quite challenging at first (yet you can check all the acronyms right here http://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1434)

As said before, these exercise are better explained in the book, but I'll try to make some example:

When you see in the Killroy template "horizontal pushing" that means that one should do a pushing exercise in horizontal plane. For example a normal push up, a push up on rings, a push up with wide arms, or a pseudo planche push up would all be "horizontal pushing exercise". They would differ just because of the difficulty (intensity) of each of them. So, if my actual level of strength is not enough to do a wall planche push up, but a normal push up is not enough to stress my arms (let say that I could easily do more than 5 sets of 5 push ups) I would try something in the middle, just like a pseudo planche push up.

Same with pull ups (if you can do easily "normal" pullups, you should increase the intensity, for example with one-arm pull-ups).

Did my explanation cleared a bit? :wink:

I'll put you what I did today for another example:

(after warm up) FSP = Fundamental static positions.

L-sit variant ---> I can do straight L-sit on parallel bars, so I did 15 sec X 4

PL variants (Planche) ----> I can just do Frog stands (first step to PL) so i did 15 sec X 4

Handstand work

FBE = fundamental bodyweight exercises

horizontal pulling variant -----> I did Tucked front lever pull-ups 3 X 5

horizontal pushing variants ----> i did pseudo push ups 3 X 5

hanging leg lift variants -----> i did full HLL 3 X 5

The fundamental concept is that when training for strength in bodyweight you should use something that is hard for your body (so it can adapt). If you use an exercise that is difficult for everybody but not for you, it won't help you to grow strength, that's why it's written "variants" everywhere: you have to pick your own (and the book list all of them). Generally speaking, an exercise that you could do for 3-5 times but no more would be a good point to start for your body.

Anyway, I'm surely not an "expert" so I can point out some basic concepts, but I hope they could clear your doubts a little!

Charlie

Hey Charlie, you explained very well :-) Thanks!

When you do for example the push-ups do yuo have to do it very slowly, can you give a example about how many sec. orso?

I have tried to do the L-sit on the ground, I can only do that, sit :-( I cant push myself off the ground.

Do I just have to try it everytime until it becomes easyer or are there some other things that I can do to work up to it?

Thanks for explaining so much.

Take care

Wim

try the Lsit on your fingertips or a set of parallettes (miniature parallel bars)

Okay, thanks Blairbob. I can try that. Seems almost impossible to do that but it would be great if it will happen in the future :-)

lokate said:

I have tried to do the L-sit on the ground, I can only do that, sit :-( I cant push myself off the ground.

Do I just have to try it everytime until it becomes easyer or are there some other things that I can do to work up to it?

Hi, lokate.

Something else that may be useful in getting the floor L-sit is trying to just lift the bottom of the floor, while leaving your feet on the ground. Once in this position, you can try lifting just one leg at a time.

As Blairbob mentioned, you can also try elevating yourself either with parallettes, on fingertips, or using chairs or something, which will allow your legs to be below horizontal until you can manage to build up to lifting them.

Okay Thanners, seems I have a long way to go!

lokate said:

Hey Charlie, you explained very well :-) Thanks!

When you do for example the push-ups do yuo have to do it very slowly, can you give a example about how many sec. orso?

I have tried to do the L-sit on the ground, I can only do that, sit :-( I cant push myself off the ground.

Do I just have to try it everytime until it becomes easyer or are there some other things that I can do to work up to it?

Thanks for explaining so much.

Take care

Wim

Hey Lokate, glad to see it was useful to you! Well, for the FBE I normally go slow enough to avoid to use momentum, but i don't really pause in any position. I think it could be useful too to pause just like 1-2 sec in the start and bottom position (I think it was said in Pavel's "the Naked warrior", but it's just a matter of what you prefer!

For L-sit and FSP positions in general, you should try a slow progression... anyway this video is quite handful!

Be sure to give a try!

Have a good training,

Charlie

The GB WODs use tempo sometimes.

Using a tempo can disable the use of the stretch reflex action in the concentric phase.

In general I probably end up using something like 3 seconds down, 1 second pause, 2 seconds up. Maybe it's 313 or 323 or even 523.

Okay thanks guys. Charlie, the video was very usefull.

I have read the book but I dont get it, I think its my lack off Englsich.

I have a few questions that I cant get off the book:

I have read that there are 6 FSP;s, L-sit, straddle L, Manna, Back lever, front lever and the planche.

Does this meean that you do all these six on he beginning off every workout?

And I read that yuo have to start with 6 sets off 10 reps, but I have read on a article by coach Sommer that you have work-up to 60 sec. for each exercise. Does this mean that you start with a exercise you can do for 6 sec. do this 10 more times until yuo can hold it for the full 60 sec and then move on to a more difficult version off that exercise?

Because off my martial arts training I try to do 3 off the body weight workouts a week.

I read that coach Sommer says that if you train you have to do full body workouts. (remain mindfull that you will be engaging in a whole body workout he says, I dont know what engaging is), start with a press exercise, then a pull exercises, core and leg and swith the order off the exercises up.

I have read that dor upper body pressing you have dips, handstand pus-ups and multi plane pressing.

Then you have 3 exercises for the upper body pulling, the pull-up, curls and multi plane pulling.

Then you have controlled pull-press. I think you only can do that when you have masterred some off the basic exercises?

Then you have two exercise for the core, V-ups and hanging leg lifts.

Then you have te lower back.

The obliques.

Te straight body.

and the legs.

Do I have to pick one exercise off all these different bodyparts?

So do a exercise for the upper body pulling, for example the dip, do 3 sets off 5 reps, then do 3 sets off 5 reps off a body pushing exercise, then the core exerise etc? So that I will work the whole body in one workout?

As you can see, how more I read how more I get confused. I am eager to start because I think this is much better thten the bar-barian stuff, but I dont know were to start.

Can someone please give me a exmple off how a 3 day a week workout can look like when you want to build up your body?

Because I want to start the right way and right now I dont know what to do or were to start. Do I have to do all the exercises in one workout, do I have to spread them over 3 workouts, how about he progression for the FSP etc. etc.

Last question, I have read somewere that coach Sommer say to do one workout for half a hour orso on stretching every two weeks. I do martial arts so beiing flexible is veryimportant to me.

I thought there would be a example off such a stretching workut would be in the book but that is not the case. Can I find somewere the stretchnig workout coach Sommer is talking about?

Sorry for this long mail but I cant make it shorter

You almost got it.

Just rotate doing one core exercise per day. You don't have to do one from every core exercise group.

The Dragondoor articles about 4 years older than the book.

Stretching will probably be covered in Liquid Steel™ There may be some samples on the forum, including something simple I made for Brandon Oto in his ATG program years ago. It's not great, it's not good, it might even work but I felt it hit the basic stretching protocol I could have them do in a short amount of time I had for stretching my guys out in the 2 and a half hours we had at the end of practice. Short as in 5-10 minutes of time in the gym for beginner competitive boys. Some were naturally flexible and some were as flexible as a piece of oak.

You don't need to worry about the Manna until you have a good straddle-L sit on floor. You don't really need to worry about straddle-L work until you can do an L-sit for 30s. I like working it regardless for my gymnasts even if their L time is short. That's just my prerogative, though. You could get by with focusing on the L at that point and doing seated straddle-L hip flexor lifts.

I believe in working the L, HS, and should you be ready for it, the 3 basic FSP that are the levers and planche. On the forum, it is generally recommended that you master the plank and hang series before the levers and planche. There is more prerequisites than those but that is material that is from the GymnasticBodiesSeminars. For now, don't worry about it and some of those prerequisites for planche and the levers has been disseminated on the forum here and there.

For a 3 day format, the Killroy70 series will still work. Just omit (take out) the combined push-pull exercise day. Multiplane push or pull exercises are something you don't need to concern yourself with until you have mastered basic push or pull exercises. You don't need to worry about a Yewki or ChestRolltoHandstand if you don't have a good pullup+front lever row or PseudoPlanchePushup and HeadstandPushup (well at least one on a box).

For example your 3 day workout might be something like this for the FBE's. You would do one variant per day. Killroy70 pairs them up so you do a horizontal row while doing a inverted push or something like that. I can't remember off hand but I don't think it's as simple as horizontal row/pushup. pullup/handstand pushup, dip/body curl.

Push: pushup variant, dip variant, handstand pushup variant.

Pull: pullup, row, body curl

Core: V-up, HLL, lower back, oblique (well there is one other that I am omitting from including. You should know or be able to figure out if you're ready for it if you have the book. The first progression isn't that difficult but maybe it is).

Legs: Deck Squat, SLS, Hamstring

Here is a hint. You will probably not be able to get much progress in a dip unless you have a good pushup. Until you have good dip strength, handstand pushup may be too much for you as well. However, you might be able to scale a dip or handstand pushup to a variant you can do such as an assisted dip or maybe an overhead press with a barbell or decline pushup. Then again you might just be better off focusing on developing good pushup strength and learning a parallel bar bar or ring support instead of dipping and getting a decent Handstand instead of a handstand pushup.

Hello Blairbob.

thank you very much for explaining so well. I think most things are almost clear to me.

The only questions that I have are:

The one about the FSP, I understand that you not have to do every exercise off it, but I dont know if I have to start with 10 reps off 6 sec. and when I have to move to a harder version.

And then you say for the FBE:

For example your 3 day workout might be something like this for the FBE's. You would do one variant per day. Killroy70 pairs them up so you do a horizontal row while doing a inverted push or something like that. I can't remember off hand but I don't think it's as simple as horizontal row/pushup. pullup/handstand pushup, dip/body curl.

Push: pushup variant, dip variant, handstand pushup variant.

Pull: pullup, row, body curl

Core: V-up, HLL, lower back, oblique (well there is one other that I am omitting from including. You should know or be able to figure out if you're ready for it if you have the book. The first progression isn't that difficult but maybe it is).

Legs: Deck Squat, SLS, Hamstring

You say to do one variantt per day. Does this mean, that I can do one push-up variant, one dip variant and one handstand variant? So 3 exercises for the push-group?

And then do 3 exercises from the pull-group, for the core one is enough you said I believe, and then 3 exercises for the legs?

And can I use the same workout for all the 3 days?

Okay thats all. Its not so long as my previous post but for me these are essential. Bit by bit I get it I hope

I am a complete beginner so its beter to start good then just to try things that dont work.

Maybay I think that the stretching part is not espaccialy for me, when I start training my martial arts, or after that I alwyas stretch anyway and most off the times when I have the change I stretch a little bit.

But I am very new to this kind off trainning so I can use all the information I am getting from guys like you.

Is it a big problem when you made a sort off 3 days a week schedule for me so i can print it out?

I mean with all the exercises (FSP and FBE), sets, eps etc?

I can then figure out myself witch step off a particulair exercise I can train, for example, normal push-ups are no problem for me so I have to pick a harder one, and so on.

Then I have a good basic routine and can work from there.

Thanks again for all your help and take care

Wim