How to incorporate Squats&Dead lifts into WODs?

[Mark Plas]

Hi,

I'm considering doing barbell squats/dead lifts on leg strength days in the WODs. I've done squats in the past (a few years ago), and had good results with them. I've never done dead lifts though, but from what I read, they are great for legs and lower back strength (and the rest of your body ).

I currently follow the WODs and can do SLS with 10kg, but I hardly make any progress with NLC or GHR. These exercises are too demanding for me and seem to be too difficult to correctly scale in order to build progress with them. I also feel like I'm lacking strength in the lower back and I regularly have lower back pain. My desk job definitely has something to do with this.

For this reason I was thinking of doing squats&dead lifts on leg strength days. I think they are easier to build up progressively, and will help strengthen my lower back.

The question I have is on how to incorporate these into the WODs. As I already mentioned, I would do them on the leg strength days, meaning once every 6 work outs (I would keep the "jumping leg WODs" because I like them too much). Should I for instance do 3x5 squats & 3x5 dead lifts? Should I only do squats? Only dead lifts? Should they be combined with SLS? Should I also replace the "jumping leg WODs" with squat&dead lift days?

And if I would do 3x5 squats & 3x5 dead lifts, should they be done as "giant sets", meaning:

5 squats

1 min rest

5 dead lifts

5 min rest

repeat

or should it be:

repeat 3 times: 5 squats + 5 min rest

repeat 3 times: 5 dead lifts + 5 min rest

Or something different?

Do you have any suggestions for this?

Thanks,

Mark

[Uzeeh]

Personally, I'd do something like front squats + deadlifts. I feel like it'd be a more complete leg workout. You could also do some weighed back extensions or (bent leg) reverse hypers for more hamstring/glute work.

[WitnessTheFitness]

Hi,

repeat 3 times: 5 squats + 5 min rest

repeat 3 times: 5 dead lifts + 5 min rest

This would be my suggestion of the two, but if you're doing your true 5 rep maximum then you should really consider splitting deadlifts and squats into two different days. Those two exercises are pretty much the most intensive compound lifts, which is why in the usual powerlifting scheduling they have three days of rest in between squat and deadlift days. Doing either front or back squats for your leg day, and then hitting the legs again with deadlifts a few days later is my advice.

[Blairbob]

I would either squat or deadlift. As a beginner you can probably work both on the same day until your deadlift starts to plateau. That may be around 300. I don't think I would personally like to do 5 sets of BS and DL though I could probably do it if it was ascending sets and not just straight sets across. I have done both as 5x5 but it wasn't using what was a 5r since the weight was fixed and probably more like a 8-10r for me.

In lieu of splitting dynamic and strength WOD's, I would simply incorporate or do some of the Dynamic Leg WOD after squats or deads. I might work power work before strength work before though. It can probably be done either way but it depends on your priority.

I would not do any power work after strength work for any of my athletes but that's also because I cannot afford to have them break. I'm a bit hesistant out of working Squats or Deads and then having them sprint or plyo series. You can do some limited stuff like standing jumps or box jumps between sets if you so wish.

This is due to the fact that the Leg WOD's do not come up very frequently and plenty of other programs will do strength lifts and conditioning or speed/power workout in the sameday.

Front Squats and Deadlifts would be a satisfactory combination. It will also be easier on your body than BackSquat and Deadlift when it comes to any DOMS the days after, heheh. :twisted:

You could also so Bulgarian Split Squats or Weighted Single Leg Squats where the free leg just hangs while doing them on a height or "pistol form"

Instead of a NLC or GHR, I would use glute bridge slide outs as a beginner progression for them or a GHD machine if you can have access to one. With a set of stall bars and a swiss ball, I can use them as a GHD but it's somewhat tricky to get into.

[Philip Papandrea]

Hi,

I usually replace all leg WOD's with weighted leg work. I usually do trap bar deadlifts since that is all i have in my house for sets of 5,3,2 reps. Sometimes i'll add kettlebell swings as a finisher. If you replace all the WOD's it comes out to working your legs around every 7-9 days except for at one point in the cycle when stregth and dynamic days are back to back. This has been working pretty well for me frequency wise as far as adding weight to the bar. Strong lifts program has 3x5 squats and adds 1x5 deadlift which could work for you if you did that on the leg WOD's.

Phil

[Mark Plas]

Thank you all for the replies & the suggestions.

I did a leg WOD today and did 5x5 DL with 60kg and 1x10 SLS with 10kg (alternating legs). I had 5 minutes of rest between sets.

It's the first time I did dead lifts and it seems to be a heavy exercise! I only lifted 60kg but I don't think I could lift a lot more. Perhaps 80kg would be my maximum but I'm not going to try that out. I will stick to 60kg to get used to the exercise and then start building up slowly.

Something I didn't think about is that I'm training at home and I don't have a safety rack to put the bar in in order to do squats, so I think I will have to stick to DL and weighted SLS.

@Blairbob: You mention incorporating dynamic strength into the leg strength days. How exactly would you do this? Does it mean that I should do all dynamic leg WOD exercises first, and when they are all finished do my leg strength exercises?

To make it clear with an example, could a workout look like this:

repeat 3 times:

- 8 box jumps

- 10 squat jumps

- 5 depth jumps

- rest 2-3min

followed by:

repeat 5 times: 5 DL + rest 5 min

10 weighted SLS

Would this be a correct leg WOD or would it already be too intense and should I do less dynamic exercises?

Thanks again for your help,

Mark

[Blairbob]

Hmm, possibly doable either way. Depends on which is more important to you. That DynamicLeg WOD isn't as intense as say sprints or olympic lifting or tumbling.

You can make ghetto squat stands with some wood, a bucket and some concrete. Look for plans via google.

[Mark Plas]

Hmm, possibly doable either way. Depends on which is more important to you.

So, if I understand correctly, doing the jumping exercises first would mean that those are most important to me, while doing DL+SLS first would put the emphasis on those exercises?

Would it be possible to "mix" both kinds of exercises, for instance:

repeat 5 times:

- 5 DL

- 5 box jumps

- 10 squat jumps

- rest 5 min

That way I could shorten the training a bit, but perhaps it compromises the DL because of a lack of rest? And I'm not sure whether it would be safe to do the jumps right after putting a heavy load on the back with the dead lifts...

[Blairbob]

Try it.

Some of GB Leg WOD's start off with "Killers" which are weighted jump switch lunges.

I would recommend landing on the entire foot when landing the box jumps. I have no evidence to support this statement but there was some conjecture over at PM about this because one of the CF WODs that were blowing up achilles was DL+Box jumps in the regionals or sectionals.

If anything your legs may feel tired after the squats or deads. It may be doable because you haven't really linear progressed your max in leg strength in the SQ or DL.

So try it and then come back to us.

[Mark Plas]

Ok, thanks.

This gives me enough to think about and to experiment a bit.

[Coach Sommer]

... I would recommend landing on the entire foot when landing the box jumps ... I have no evidence to support this statement but there was some conjecture over at PM about this because one of the CF WODs that were blowing up achilles was DL+Box jumps in the regionals or sectionals.

This is incorrect and should never be done. Landing flat footed greatly exaggerates the problem by removing the ability of both the arch and calf to 'soften' the landing.

The problem with the incorporation of the DL + Box jumps in that particular crossfit workout was due to insufficient preparation for a dynamic strength element coupled with poor programming.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Cole Dano]

That's really interesting, i also thought you were supposed to land on the whole foot. So is it correct to assume you land with the balls of the toes slightly before the heels?

[Coach Sommer]

... is it correct to assume you land with the balls of the toes slightly before the heels? ...

You may land on either the forefoot or midfoot as you prefer, as long as the heels are at least slightly off the ground during the impact.

Remember that it is only due to the enormous padding of today's running shoes that it is even possible to consider landing incorrectly. To those who doubt the veracity of this, please go outside barefoot, climb up onto something and then jump down flatfooted onto a hard sidewalk or street; making sure that the entire foot (including the heel) touches the ground at the same time. Then limp back inside and share your experience with the rest of us .

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Cole Dano]

Of course that's true. I didn't even realize how natural it is. The timing is so close it feels like landing flat footed but now that i just tested it, it's exactly what i've been doing all along.

[Falcon]

... is it correct to assume you land with the balls of the toes slightly before the heels? ...

You may land on either the forefoot or midfoot as you prefer, as long as the heels are at least slightly off the ground during the impact.

Remember that it is only due to the enormous padding of today's running shoes that it is even possible to consider landing incorrectly. To those who doubt the veracity of this, please go outside barefoot, climb up onto something and then jump down flatfooted onto a hard sidewalk or street; making sure that the entire foot (including the heel) touches the ground at the same time. Then limp back inside and share your experience with the rest of us .

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I was (and I still am) Parkour & Freerunning practicioner. I have the habit of landing on boxes only with my toes, my heels never touch the box nor ground when landing - that is kinda hard when it comes to flips, esspecially gainers, I landed one gainer from about 1m height only on my heels - it was on a performance and the crowd had such "performance enhancing" effect that I overrotated the gainer, and well, I recovered for about a month after this "stunt".

[Ian Legrow]

To those who doubt the veracity of this, please go outside barefoot, climb up onto something and then jump down flatfooted onto a hard sidewalk or street; making sure that the entire foot (including the heel) touches the ground at the same time. Then limp back inside and share your experience with the rest of us .

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

This statement made me laugh out loud in my office

[Nic Scheelings]

Yeah I've landed back tucks on the heels before, hurts like hell, don't do it. One good tip one of my coaches tell me is to land without a sound only way to do this is to cushion with your feet forefoot then heels. If your making lots of noise your landing wrong!

[Blairbob]

Thankyou, Coach.

I prefer to just skip that programming as rubbish. Problem solved. I can't afford to blow my achilles and I sure as heck can't allow it for one of my athletes.

Perhaps, Jesse Gray, who posted it over on PM alluded to landing more mid foot instead of just on the the ball of the foot on the box to allow more surface area to absorb the force.

So, instead of just landing on the ball of the foot and hopping off, one would do a normal landing that goes ball, midfoot, heel.