7 year old 15 sec IC

[Marlon]

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how is this possible? he's a little bit low, but still, he doesn't even look like he's trying very hard...

[Guest]

I find this Giuliano kid to be scary (not in a good sense). Wasn't there a lot of discussion in the past about the role of his father in the whole process?

[Razz]

Yeah a controversial kid for sure, but DAMN he is strong. It is hard not to be impressed although i despise the way the father uses his kid as a 'commercial' for himself.

[Cole Dano]

I aways think the same. I'd love to hear Coach's thoughts as he's someone used to working with this age group.

I personally fear for the little guys development both physically and socially.

[Rafael David]

His young brother is also strong a lot, they are like real life Goten and Trunks... :shock:

[ashita]

Please do'nt talk about what is good or not for him or what his father does or does'nt, it's not at all our business, talking about that will change nothing.... just enjoy the performance.

Giuliano is a monstruous beast, this is the only one thing to keep in mind. :twisted:

and btw his father knows perfectly what he is doing, both claudio and giuliano are in good hands, he created little monsters, i'd love to know how he train them !

[Philip Chubb]

Impressive but I think the actual IC isn't supposed to be worked until the growth plates are fused. This kid does some amazing stuff but hopefully isn't headed toward a long term injury with this one. It would suck to see all that work go down the drain.

[Cole Dano]

Normally i'd agree Ashita, but in this case too many red flags are going up.

It may be you don't have children, from where i sit something is off here. I'd much rather know how someone with a proven track record like Coach Sommer handles the young ones, or see him sign off on this before i say yea.

[WitnessTheFitness]

At this rate he'll be doing a one-armed Victorian whilst juggling powerlifters with the other arm before he even hits puberty.

[Coach Sommer]

... I'd love to hear Coach's thoughts as he's someone used to working with this age group ...

The iron cross is quite damaging for physically immature prepubescent athletes to train seriously.

Allan's younger brother Alex was also capable of holding an iron cross at 8 years old. However he was only allowed to "play" with it occasionally. Yes, he was talented enough that he could have competed both an iron cross and a maltese, however this short term glory would have been at the expense of the rest of his career.

Premature exposure to iron cross training will significantly damage growth plates in the elbow and greatly decrease the mobility of the ligaments in the shoulder girdle. Especially problematic here is that the damage to the elbow will often not manifest itself as pain until the athlete begins their adolescent growth spurt. The shoulder girdle mobility problem will also be further exacerbated during the athlete's pubescent growth spurt resulting in a substantial loss of ROM.

The solution? While prepubescent, the athlete should focus on flexibility, mastering the basic FBEs and then increasing strength endurance. In terms of ring specific strength, the primary focus should be on ring handstands, lock arm press handstands and planche development until the athlete has either completed puberty or is approximately 16 years old.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Cole Dano]

Very interesting, thanks for putting a word in Coach.

[Finn Frank]

It is extremely interesting to read your input Coach. Thank you for giving such a complete answer from your experience

[Mats Trane]

Premature exposure to iron cross training will significantly damage growth plates in the elbow and greatly decrease the mobility of the ligaments in the shoulder girdle. Especially problematic here is that the damage to the elbow will often not manifest itself as pain until the athlete begins their adolescent growth spurt. The shoulder girdle mobility problem will also be further exacerbated during the athlete's pubescent growth spurt resulting in a substantial loss of ROM.

I´ve seen this happen.

There was a guy at my sons club that was very talented and could do the cross when he was 10. At that time I was very impressed to say the least! As I got more educated through this forum and the GB Seminar I had a feeling this was going to be the sad end of this boys gymnastics career. When this boy turned 15 and he started to grow (still very short) unfortunatly the injuries started to come one after one. Shoulders,back,wrists and so on . At 16 his doctor recomended him to quit which he decided to do.

[Alessandro Mainente]

interesting what Coach Sommer says...i'm surprise from the strength of giuliano, also i know that develop stength requires less work than in adult but, but wath Coach says cannot be contradicted!!!

[Edward Smith]

One thing I have interesting is to compare the musculature/leaness between Giuliano and Alex (Coach Sommer's student, he performs the bowers).

Giuliano is very lean and quite muscular, this is compared to Alex who standing still in the Bowers video looks like just about any other kid his age.

[swarovski]

anyone remember richard sandrak's story??

my son is 6 and all he has to do is to have fun being active. As I often do, is worth mention the LTAD model:

FUNdamental (This phase is appropriate for boys aged 6 to 9 and girls aged 5 to 8. )

Learning to train (This phase is appropriate for boys aged 9 to 12 and girls aged 8 to 11.)

Training to train (This phase is appropriate for boys aged 12 to 16 and girls aged 11 to 15.)

Training to compete (This phase is appropriate for boys aged 16 to 18 and girls aged 15 to 17.)

Training to win (This phase is appropriate for boys aged 18+ and girls aged 17+. )

Retirement & retainment (The main objective should be to retain athletes for coaching, officiating, sport administration etc.)

[Rafael David]

The main problem is: if the young body can handle this stress and more important, if this isn't damaging the mind. :|

[Coach Sommer]

The main problem is: if the young body can handle this stress and more important, if this isn't damaging the mind.

His mind will be fine. The young man appears to enjoy both his training and the attention which he receives due to it. The primary issue of concern is the long term physical effects of performing iron cross training prematurely.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Joshua Naterman]

Coach is 100% correct.

From a physics standpoint you don't want to be practicing something like a cross or maltese while a growth spurt is stretching all the muscles across the joint. In a full planche you have at least 30% less stress on the joint than you do during a cross, based on arm angle alone. Planche is also easier to control because you can adjust your body extension easily, so if it has to be scaled back this is easily accomplished. Cross... well, you can't do that in a cross. Maltese is also problematic for similar reasons, though somewhat less so because if your arms and body are in the same plane the pressure on the elbow will be extremely high no matter how you tuck your body. That's why I hope those kids' father stops IC and ML training when they hit growth spurts, at the very least. They will probably be much better served, as Coach has mentioned, by mastering the bent arm strength elements and multi-planar work as far as strength work goes.

Coach has mentioned before that many times his athletes have to back off a bit during the growth spurts even with this kind of training, so it should come as no surprise that there WILL be nearly guaranteed injuries if extremely low leverage work like IC is being done on a regular basis.

There should be no problems at all with growth plates until the kid starts growing (any growth spurt, not just puberty) and then he will be at risk for avulsion fractures (tendons ripping chunks of bone off) to some degree due to all the naturally increased tension from bone growth outpacing tendon growth and the fact that the tendons will be stronger than the bones during that period. I suppose it is possible for there to be an actual growth plate fracture, but realistically those are impact injuries and are extremely rare (if the exist at all) outside of direct impact. You don't even see them with youth Olympic Lifting unless they somehow drop a bar directly on their elbow or knee, or take a nasty fall during a missed lift.

He could definitely end up with permanently damaged ligaments and tendons though, and anything is possible so I can't say for sure that there would be no growth plate damage but I don't think so. If there was, it would be on the humerus near the elbow. That's where all the forearm muscles attach and where the majority of the traction force is going to be on the growth plates at the elbow. The biceps tendon actually attaches on the shafts of the ulna and radius, so the shaft is being pulled INTO the growth plate and not pulling the growth plate away from the bone (which is what happens at the humerus).

I suppose he could dislocate the radius and crack THAT growth plate off, but even that is an impact injury.

[Rafael David]

The main problem is: if the young body can handle this stress and more important, if this isn't damaging the mind.

His mind will be fine. The young man appears to enjoy both his training and the attention which he receives due to it. The primary issue of concern is the long term physical effects of performing iron cross training prematurely.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

So, when I've children:

My son see me performing a iron cross, then:

- Hey daddy, this is awesome, I want do this too!

Me:

- Shut up kid, just when you complete 16. For now, you can do chins, pull ups, push ups, etc. :roll:

Son:

- NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! :cry:

Me:

- Shut up or I'll call your mom! :x

Son:

- ... :shock:

hahahaha just kidding, I will not treat a child like that...

[Joshua Naterman]

The main problem is: if the young body can handle this stress and more important, if this isn't damaging the mind.

His mind will be fine. The young man appears to enjoy both his training and the attention which he receives due to it. The primary issue of concern is the long term physical effects of performing iron cross training prematurely.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

So, when I've children:

My son see me performing a iron cross, then:

- Hey daddy, this is awesome, I want do this too!

Me:

- Shut up kid, just when you complete 16. For now, you can do chins, pull ups, push ups, etc. :roll:

Son:

- NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! :cry:

Me:

- Shut up or I'll call your mom! :x

Son:

- ... :shock:

hahahaha just kidding, I will not treat a child like that...

I hope not, pulling the mom card like that is just dirty! You have to start with chugging pickled jalapeno juice!

[Rafael David]

Jalapeno juice HAHAHA

HAHAHA ''mom card" is like a Exodia card: end of the game or FATALITY (babality is this case)! HAHAHAHA

[Blairbob]

Giuliano is exceptional as is his little brother. We've talked about him before, some accusing abuse and mistreatment. I've often wondered if both of the boys have that myostatin deficient gene that is documented in bull whippets with a few cases in humans.

Quite honestly since we don't have all the facts, it's a bit pointless to get into.

I had heard that boys shouldn't train cross till 12, I'll take note of Coach recommendations should I train boys again.

Do we all recognize his rings? I think I was reading on his youtube that a GB member sent him a set of the rings.

[Rafael David]

One question: HOW?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... LDC8qCVqlg

[Coach Sommer]

300 & 350 pushups by younger athletes is something that I have already discussed in BtGB. Interestingly neither of the two boys who performed the most high rep pushups were outstandingly athletic.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer