physique enhancement first, skill improvement second

[Guest marktb68]

I cannot speak for everyone patiently waiting for Coach's book but I am interested in physique enhancement first and improving specific skills comes a distant second. I greatly admire the physiques of gymnasts and that's what drew me to reading Coach's material in the first place.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to do a floor L-sit to a handstand or a tuck planche on paralletes for 30 secs with thighs parallel to the ground but my priority is PHYSIQUE IMPROVEMENT. I would imagine the layperson with no gymnastics background feels the same way.

I said I am patiently waiting, but I lied. I CAN'T WAIT.

Mark Baldwin

[John Sapinoso]

much of our training is skill based, so training for muscular aesthetic over skill improvement is somewhat useless. it is more effective to train skill based strength than prioritize physique.

[Guest marktb68]

hmmm. Coach's book is entitled, "Building thte Olympic Body", not building your gymnastic skills. He is targeting those-or I think he is- who wish to improve their physiques. I fthis weren't the case then he wouldn't be puting up photos of gymnasts with incredible PHYSIQUES. He would be putting up gymnasts with decent physiques doing great skill manuevers.

I would bet if you took a poll, most of Coach's readers want to improve their bodies as their priority. IN fact, a vast majority of Coach's followers first found out about him from Testosterone.net.

IF doing a tuck planche for 60 secs gives me a BETTER BODY then great, but if doing a tuck planche for 60 secs makes me lose muscle and improves my tuck planche ability then have at it. I would bet most people would not be anxiously waiting for this book if they didn't think it would improve their physiques.

Thanks,

Mark

[Coach Sommer]

Physique or Skills?

In gymnastics, skill training is obviously more important than physical preparation, right? Wrong. This is a common misconception in mid-level American gymnastics training. The faulty preposition that the majority of these programs base their training upon is that more skill training will lead to greater strength which will in turn lead to the ability to do more skill training which will lead to greater strength etc etc etc. This premise has been undeniably proven false; by my athletes, by the Chinese, by the Russians. In fact, by all high-level gymnastics programs in the world.

The physical structure must always be built first. It then may be tasked with whatever technical demands are placed upon it. Imagine hammering a nail. You want a steel hammer, not a thin glass hammer. Regardless of the perfection of your hammer swing, regardless of how many hours you lavish upon continually polishing the many intricacies of swinging a hammer - in the end you are still using a tool that will break and will always be inadequate for the demands being placed upon it.

The Gymnastic Bodies program is for building the physical aspects of the gymnast physique for both the gymnast and for the fitness enthusiast who would like to enjoy the same developmental benefits. The key core components have been isolated as much as possible from the technical training inherent in gymnastics. Whether someone chooses to then use that gymnastic physique to pursue technical gymnastics or another sport of their choice is completely up to them. My forthcoming article, Gymnastics as Conditioning - the Journey, explores this subject in depth.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[John Sapinoso]

I think im using the same terminology with different definitions

In my earlier post by "physique" i was referring to pure muscular aesthetics with little gains on actual useful strength, which is useless for a gymnast (ex bicep curls, benchpress )

and by "skill based strength" i was referring to skill relevant conditioning, which is more effective at building skill and strength (ex levers, crosses planches etc)

so i guess didn't really state anything that wasn't already obvious.

[jzac]

Mark,

I have to agree with you. I have no gymnastic background, but as you...and many others, I appreciate the gymnast's physique. I come from a typical weight lifting background and got tired of it over the years, so I switched to bodyweight exercises.

I purchased some rings and am still trying to figure out how best to make use of them. I too am anxiously awaiting Coach's book...many questions should be answered.

By the way, it appears as though Coach is saying that yes, we can build the physique first, and then work on skill improvement second...unless I misunderstood.

Anyway, it's good to see someone else with the same goal.

jzac

[Guest cccp21]

Physique or Skills?

In gymnastics, skill training is obviously more important than physical preparation, right? Wrong. This is a common misconception in mid-level American gymnastics training. The faulty preposition that the majority of these programs base their training upon is that more skill training will lead to greater strength which will in turn lead to the ability to do more skill training which will lead to greater strength etc etc etc. This premise has been undeniably proven false; by my athletes, by the Chinese, by the Russians. In fact, by all high-level gymnastics programs in the world.

The physical structure must always be built first. It then may be tasked with whatever technical demands are placed upon it. Imagine hammering a nail. You want a steel hammer, not a thin glass hammer. Regardless of the perfection of your hammer swing, regardless of how many hours you lavish upon continually polishing the many intricacies of swinging a hammer - in the end you are still using a tool that will break and will always be inadequate for the demands being placed upon it.

The Gymnastic Bodies program is for building the physical aspects of the gymnast physique for both the gymnast and for the fitness enthusiast who would like to enjoy the same developmental benefits. The key core components have been isolated as much as possible from the technical training inherent in gymnastics. Whether someone chooses to then use that gymnastic physique to pursue technical gymnastics or another sport of their choice is completely up to them. My forthcoming article, Gymnastics as Conditioning - the Journey, explores this subject in depth.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

*********** Agree wholeheartedly. I was wondering is there any reason for a competitive gymnast to do any bicep curls of any kind as a training method?

Brandon Green

[Blairbob]

Brandon, I employ them with gymnasts who have natural hyperextension in their elbows as a prevention measure. Especially as I've had a few kids start to noticeably complain about elbow pain when training various skills or movements.

Obviously, we can work supinated pullups, rope climbs but so much of gymnasts hits the triceps hard in the support work and considering the tricep is bigger than the bicep; well there you go.

I wonder if I naturally have elbows that curve in or if it was all the curling I did in years before gym. I've been told that stretching the elbow will create an angle that is more 180 as it kind of mucks with some movements I have found because of how it angles.

I think if the major focus of those coming to GB or any program is aesthetically based they are doomed to fail. I've yet to see anybody stick with any kind of program unless they learn to enjoy it be it WL, BB, BW calesthenics/gymnastics, etc, running/biking, KB, etc.

[Guest cccp21]

Brandon, I employ them with gymnasts who have natural hyperextension in their elbows as a prevention measure. Especially as I've had a few kids start to noticeably complain about elbow pain when training various skills or movements.

Obviously, we can work supinated pullups, rope climbs but so much of gymnasts hits the triceps hard in the support work and considering the tricep is bigger than the bicep; well there you go.

I wonder if I naturally have elbows that curve in or if it was all the curling I did in years before gym. I've been told that stretching the elbow will create an angle that is more 180 as it kind of mucks with some movements I have found because of how it angles.

I think if the major focus of those coming to GB or any program is aesthetically based they are doomed to fail. I've yet to see anybody stick with any kind of program unless they learn to enjoy it be it WL, BB, BW calesthenics/gymnastics, etc, running/biking, KB, etc.

************ I have to tell you that at first i wanted the physique gains. After doing this for a bit i want the skills too.

Coach Sommers post sums it up pretty well.

Brandon Green

[Richard Duelley]

If you train hard, follow the proper progressions, get stronger, eat a clean diet, and have fun the physique enhancements with come naturally. I am proof of that and everything (strength and physique) is only getting better! 8)

I will finish up my first year of training at the end of August and I have gone through a complete life change both physically and mentally.