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Yaad Mohammad

One of my first times on the rings

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Philip Chubb

Same here. I definitely feel like the planche is the harder of the two skills. Yet I do feel the cross in my elbows a bit more. I think with a good ring planche the cross will come pretty easily afterward.

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Joshua Naterman

post-12160-13531537228428_thumb.jpg

There you go.

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Yaad Mohammad
[attachment=0]bicep tendon.jpg[/attachment]

There you go.

Thanks, so this is basically how I should warm up for the IC?

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Joshua Naterman

Technically, this is what you should do before you do any serious IC training. Complete each step in order up to the 1/2 press, which can be concurrent with actual XR HS work. You shouldn't really do much IC work until you have a solid 10s freestanding XR HS with the elbows completely locked and rings turned at least slightly out.

At that point planche training is technically not required but it is a really good idea and comes HIGHLY recommended.

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Yaad Mohammad
Technically, this is what you should do before you do any serious IC training. Complete each step in order up to the 1/2 press, which can be concurrent with actual XR HS work. You shouldn't really do much IC work until you have a solid 10s freestanding XR HS with the elbows completely locked and rings turned at least slightly out.

At that point planche training is technically not required but it is a really good idea and comes HIGHLY recommended.

Right, I'll do my best.

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Guest xani

Muscle mass isn't everything here.... in circus I've seen girls with no meat on them, thin as hell, twice thinner than this dude, who can do all that in that vid and WAY more...while the apparatus is swinging at high speed. It's hard to judge about person's actual conditioning and strength from their muscle mass. Some people are genetically gifted for the stuff and don't need much muscle mass. Need to eat little and not much protein to stay small while getting much stronger

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Cole Dano

The discussion here had nothing to do with muscle mass, it's a matter of proper joint preparation. This takes a certain amount of time and going through an intelligent progression to get there. Certainly the circus performers you mention have gone through rigorous training to get there.

In this post we have a young man hoping on the rings for the first time and playing with an Iron Cross. Without preparation there is a good chance of tearing the bicep, rupturing the elbow or shoulder.

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Guest xani

I'm not talking about accomplished circus performers, I'm talking about students on new apparatus.

Also, I talked to a sports medicine doctor who routinely treats gymnasts and he thinks that all and any gymnastics or circus training WILL lead to damaged joints, preparation or not... I guess there're different opinions on that. One can just lay down in bed hoping they won't get injured I mean...but people go for what they feel they can go for, there's always a risk

the muscle up tho, I'd try it at low height until it's all clean/both arms and then go high, that muscle up looks funny

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Joshua Naterman
I'm not talking about accomplished circus performers, I'm talking about students on new apparatus.

Also, I talked to a sports medicine doctor who routinely treats gymnasts and he thinks that all and any gymnastics or circus training WILL lead to damaged joints, preparation or not... I guess there're different opinions on that. One can just lay down in bed hoping they won't get injured I mean...but people go for what they feel they can go for, there's always a risk

the muscle up tho, I'd try it at low height until it's all clean/both arms and then go high, that muscle up looks funny

There are tried and true methods of joint conditioning that work with the natural adaptation timelines of connective tissues to progressively build strong joints. This can't always protect you from a catastrophic injury like a fall or a hard armbar but it can and will protect you from injuring yourself during your conditioning work if followed diligently.

What is amazing is that every strongman knew the process, though not the science behind it, back in the 19th century. That's why you had globe weights that were filled up a few grains of lead shot at a time. An ounce or a fraction of an ounce at a time. I have read the majority of the manuals written by the people of those times and I can tell you that they all recommend small, frequent increases that allow your body to get used to the weight gradually. Over the course of 2-3 years you become strong in a way that we simply have a hard time believing is possible without drugs. This has fallen out of favor because it is not commercially viable for gyms... everyone would have to have their own personal weight. That's not how you make money in a commercial gym.

The science behind why they were able to build such enormous strength was fairly simple: they were increasing difficulty slowly enough for the connective tissues to adapt along with the muscles. Gymnastics and other low-leverage body-weight pursuits are more difficult to micro-load, which is why you take the Dan John approach and use Coach Sommer's SSC. You literally master a certain level of resistance over the course of several months or longer, and then you move on. Methodical, seemingly slow, yet foolproof when followed to the letter (which fools so often do not) and because injury from conditioning work is virtually guaranteed to be avoided there are no periods of lost progress which translates to faster long term progress.

My girlfriend is a doctor, I'm going to be a doctor, and neither one of us has any illusion that doctors know everything. Good doctors will be quick to tell you that they do not. Many have strong opinions and most are not athletes and have absolutely no experience with athletes, and most of the athletes within that subset have zero experience or understanding of how to safely train strength in a low leverage position. That goes for coaches and trainers as well.

When you have a system like Coach's SSC that works in a gym where consistent hard workers with high quality of character, not the genetically elite, are selected for training you can be fairly sure that the approach works for pretty much everyone. As you get bigger you have to take more steps in the FSP conditioning because the increases in resistance are angular and therefore highly unique increases as opposed to a given amount of resistance for all bodies, but the process remains unchanged.

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Alvaro Antolinez

I´ve noticed Slizz that over time you are becoming more concise and therefore really illustrative! :D

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Joshua Naterman
I´ve noticed Slizz that over time you are becoming more concise and therefore really illustrative! :D

Thanks! I am trying to do so. It's an uphill battle! :lol:

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Guest xani
I'm not talking about accomplished circus performers, I'm talking about students on new apparatus.

Also, I talked to a sports medicine doctor who routinely treats gymnasts and he thinks that all and any gymnastics or circus training WILL lead to damaged joints, preparation or not... I guess there're different opinions on that. One can just lay down in bed hoping they won't get injured I mean...but people go for what they feel they can go for, there's always a risk

the muscle up tho, I'd try it at low height until it's all clean/both arms and then go high, that muscle up looks funny

There are tried and true methods of joint conditioning that work with the natural adaptation timelines of connective tissues to progressively build strong joints. This can't always protect you from a catastrophic injury like a fall or a hard armbar but it can and will protect you from injuring yourself during your conditioning work if followed diligently.

What is amazing is that every strongman knew the process, though not the science behind it, back in the 19th century. That's why you had globe weights that were filled up a few grains of lead shot at a time. An ounce or a fraction of an ounce at a time. I have read the majority of the manuals written by the people of those times and I can tell you that they all recommend small, frequent increases that allow your body to get used to the weight gradually. Over the course of 2-3 years you become strong in a way that we simply have a hard time believing is possible without drugs. This has fallen out of favor because it is not commercially viable for gyms... everyone would have to have their own personal weight. That's not how you make money in a commercial gym.

The science behind why they were able to build such enormous strength was fairly simple: they were increasing difficulty slowly enough for the connective tissues to adapt along with the muscles. Gymnastics and other low-leverage body-weight pursuits are more difficult to micro-load, which is why you take the Dan John approach and use Coach Sommer's SSC. You literally master a certain level of resistance over the course of several months or longer, and then you move on. Methodical, seemingly slow, yet foolproof when followed to the letter (which fools so often do not) and because injury from conditioning work is virtually guaranteed to be avoided there are no periods of lost progress which translates to faster long term progress.

My girlfriend is a doctor, I'm going to be a doctor, and neither one of us has any illusion that doctors know everything. Good doctors will be quick to tell you that they do not. Many have strong opinions and most are not athletes and have absolutely no experience with athletes, and most of the athletes within that subset have zero experience or understanding of how to safely train strength in a low leverage position. That goes for coaches and trainers as well.

When you have a system like Coach's SSC that works in a gym where consistent hard workers with high quality of character, not the genetically elite, are selected for training you can be fairly sure that the approach works for pretty much everyone. As you get bigger you have to take more steps in the FSP conditioning because the increases in resistance are angular and therefore highly unique increases as opposed to a given amount of resistance for all bodies, but the process remains unchanged.

I've been told by one doctor that if I run, I WILL develop knee or hip problems--while most recent long term studies that came out just last year say that there were zero difference in joint problems between runners and non-runners, and this is for 15 or 20-year long studies. Some doctors believe in things that aren't proven, and some just have the attitude that better safe than sorry, even if it means missing out on entire life.

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Joshua Naterman
I've been told by one doctor that if I run, I WILL develop knee or hip problems--while most recent long term studies that came out just last year say that there were zero difference in joint problems between runners and non-runners, and this is for 15 or 20-year long studies. Some doctors believe in things that aren't proven, and some just have the attitude that better safe than sorry, even if it means missing out on entire life.

Yea, that's very unfortunate... there is still a lot of quackery opinion regarding exercise out there, even with some very legit doctors. They fail to realize that the joint mechanics, not the exercise, is what will determine injury or non-injury. If someone's moving dysfunctionally, they are probably going to develop injuries... can't really avoid that one! It is sad that doctors are not, as a general rule, well trained in recognizing movement dysfunctions.

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Yaad Mohammad

I stopped doing the IR, won't do it until I've mastered my handstand. In the meantime I'm really focused on posture:

IArwKDOmTs8

I know my front-lever pull was bad, but that's because I was extremely tired, I trained 4 hours in 2 days. But tips would be much appreciated. Also handstand tips would also help.

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MH87

Y U GUYS BEING SO NICE?? :)

that is not a front lever, and that's no back lever.

Here's a tip, google 'fuckarounditis'

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Ian Legrow

MH87 I sincerely hope you were joking because that was uncalled for and very rude

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Yaad Mohammad
Y U GUYS BEING SO NICE?? :)

that is not a front lever, and that's no back lever.

Here's a tip, google 'fuckarounditis'

Like I've mentioned, this was after 4 hours of training. It's not perfect and I, too, hope you're joking.

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Finnbar McAlinden

MH87, calm down.

I just want to say well done Rago! I'm impressed that you're listening and leaving the IC work until you have your XR HS.

I like the Front pull at the start as well, nice and straight!

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Yaad Mohammad
MH87, calm down.

I just want to say well done Rago! I'm impressed that you're listening and leaving the IC work until you have your XR HS.

I like the Front pull at the start as well, nice and straight!

Thanks, I'm going to try to do this again next week, but this time everything with straight arms (the first pull starts with bend arms). And hopefully I can maintain a perfectly straight body!

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Philip Chubb
MH87, calm down.

I just want to say well done Rago! I'm impressed that you're listening and leaving the IC work until you have your XR HS.

I like the Front pull at the start as well, nice and straight!

Thanks, I'm going to try to do this again next week, but this time everything with straight arms (the first pull starts with bend arms). And hopefully I can maintain a perfectly straight body!

You might benefit from a bit more rest and see if you can do it better. If not, try going up in a very small straddle and coming back down in a full laidout position. Otherwise you are close. Good work. If you want handstand tips, show a video of your handstand. Otherwise it is kind of just a shot in the dark or generic advice.

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Yaad Mohammad
MH87, calm down.

I just want to say well done Rago! I'm impressed that you're listening and leaving the IC work until you have your XR HS.

I like the Front pull at the start as well, nice and straight!

Thanks, I'm going to try to do this again next week, but this time everything with straight arms (the first pull starts with bend arms). And hopefully I can maintain a perfectly straight body!

You might benefit from a bit more rest and see if you can do it better. If not, try going up in a very small straddle and coming back down in a full laidout position. Otherwise you are close. Good work. If you want handstand tips, show a video of your handstand. Otherwise it is kind of just a shot in the dark or generic advice.

Yes, I will rest, and I really can't do a handstand on the rings. I can do them on paralletes that rock back and front, but that's about the hardest kind of handstand I can do. When I jump into a handstand I fall over, I tried holding on the rope but they're too thin!

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Philip Chubb

I didn't realize you meant ring handstand. Well I have gymnastic rings at the gym and fitness rings which has two straps so it's eaiser to put your foot in and straighten out your line until you're strong enough to hold it. That sounds a little more difficult on the normal ones first but is there anyone that is there to spot you? That is one of the easier ways to get it. Learning it on straps that don't have an opening is harder.

Try this. Get into the shoulder stand and grab the cord between your toes. Then push up to handstand position with good form. This should let you reach the Ring HS position a little better.

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Yaad Mohammad
I didn't realize you meant ring handstand. Well I have gymnastic rings at the gym and fitness rings which has two straps so it's eaiser to put your foot in and straighten out your line until you're strong enough to hold it. That sounds a little more difficult on the normal ones first but is there anyone that is there to spot you? That is one of the easier ways to get it. Learning it on straps that don't have an opening is harder.

Try this. Get into the shoulder stand and grab the cord between your toes. Then push up to handstand position with good form. This should let you reach the Ring HS position a little better.

Alright, I'll ask my coach if he's got some time. But damn, they're 2349204 times easier on the ground!

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Yaad Mohammad

Haven't had a chance to train the handstands on the rings because my coach was at a competition. However, I recorded my front-lever hold:

ivIJmRNniRo

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Joshua Naterman

Pretty strong!

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