Good pulling but poor pushing...?!

[dacicsak]

My pulling training:

Static Back lever work+

Complete four rounds:

2 – Front Pulls

12 - L-pullups

2 – Front Pulls

7 – FL Pulls

2 – Front Pulls

5 – FL Rows

My pushing strength:

Well, i can do max 15 bulgarian pushup on rings

I was able to do 16 HeSPU with back facing the wall, but since i started training with stomach to wall HeSPU, my shoulder strength is stagnate since 3 months....I can only do 5 extremely correct HeSPU with stomach to wall and thats really bad

I do a lot ring dips(bulgarian and normal ring dips) but i feel those are the most effective exercise i do for pushing...

Actually, my problem is 2 things.

First, since i do the pulling training (mentioned above) my back got stronger and bigger, sometimes it feels sore! Very good feeling. But i never get sore for doing HeSPU, ring pushups and ring dips as much like pulling. So Could you give me a pushing routine or WOD that gives me the feeling that my pushing is gonna as strong as my pulling? I want to feel my anterior shoulders as my posterior shoulders, my chest as my lats, etc.. I hope u got it.

Second, as u can see with my pulling strength im now at Front lever works and back lever. They are advanced for me.

But with my pushing strength im only at 5-6 HeSPU. How can i go for full ROM HSPU? how can i achieve planche hold and pushup if i cant do HSPU?

I know its subjective which exercise u are good at. But wtf, my pulling is extremely much stronger than my pushing...

ESPECIALLY my anterior shoulder is the weak point here, i think.

Sorry for my english! Thanks for your help in advanced!

Greetings, dacicsak

[Joshua Naterman]

Your chest is fine, your shoulders are weak. Use bands or cables to work your mid delts, you need to hit them every day. 1 set 1-3 times a day most days and just blast the crap out of them 1-2x per week with bands after your stomach to wall HeSPU are finished.

I have same issue and this has led to tons of progress in many areas.

[dacicsak]

Your chest is fine, your shoulders are weak. Use bands or cables to work your mid delts, you need to hit them every day. 1 set 1-3 times a day most days and just blast the crap out of them 1-2x per week with bands after your stomach to wall HeSPU are finished.

I have same issue and this has led to tons of progress in many areas.

I see thanks! Im just curious...can u suggest bodyweight exercises for my anterior shoulders? bands are good, but i have to buy some and i want to train soon, so i can only train with bodyweight only now

[Joshua Naterman]

Anterior is not weak, medial is. It's always that way.

That is why you are strong with back against the wall! You are using chest and anterior delts there.

Stomach to wall, unless you are arching like crazy, really forces you to use middle delts and triceps.

You need bands to work these properly, but bands are cheap so don't skimp. Outside of that, in a HSPU from 60 degree elbow bend to a 120 degree elbow bend (30 degrees below upper arm parallel to 30 degrees above), more or less is the entire ROM for medial delts. This has to be done in the proper tripod positioning, not elbows flaring out to the sides.

They are a different kind of muscle belly than anterior and posterior delts, they are pennate instead of fusiform. This means that they have a shorter ROM but produce much more force in their ROM. Perhaps now you can see why these are not easily worked with bodyweight at first. Once you are strong enough that's different, but then you'll be missing out on supraspinatus.

When is everyone going to start realizing that if you try to JUST use one type of training you will not get the best results? Use the right tool for the right job. If you are keeping a hollow position you will find out that shoulder press with dumbbells is amazingly hard because your traps, supraspinatus and mid delts will be doing most of the lifting. I can shoulder press 90's at least, but if I move to a hollow position 30 lbs is too much for sets. There is a very, very big difference.

You don't need dumbbells, just use bags with dirt in them if you don't have money or gym access. Use what is around you and get strong!!!

[Falcon]

Anterior is not weak, medial is. It's always that way.

That is why you are strong with back against the wall! You are using chest and anterior delts there.

Stomach to wall, unless you are arching like crazy, really forces you to use middle delts and triceps.

You need bands to work these properly, but bands are cheap so don't skimp. Outside of that, in a HSPU from 60 degree elbow bend to a 120 degree elbow bend (30 degrees below upper arm parallel to 30 degrees above), more or less is the entire ROM for medial delts. This has to be done in the proper tripod positioning, not elbows flaring out to the sides.

They are a different kind of muscle belly than anterior and posterior delts, they are pennate instead of fusiform. This means that they have a shorter ROM but produce much more force in their ROM. Perhaps now you can see why these are not easily worked with bodyweight at first. Once you are strong enough that's different, but then you'll be missing out on supraspinatus.

When is everyone going to start realizing that if you try to JUST use one type of training you will not get the best results? Use the right tool for the right job. If you are keeping a hollow position you will find out that shoulder press with dumbbells is amazingly hard because your traps, supraspinatus and mid delts will be doing most of the lifting. I can shoulder press 90's at least, but if I move to a hollow position 30 lbs is too much for sets. There is a very, very big difference.

You don't need dumbbells, just use bags with dirt in them if you don't have money or gym access. Use what is around you and get strong!!!

Oh yes, I have some unused cement bags in my garage, perfect.

They are about 30-40lbs, and slizz, shoulder press is like HeSPU motion, just using weight, right? That means I can get stronger HeSPUs (I'm pulling dominant). Just by pressing those bags I get stronger in my shoulders, so that helps me with H(e)SPUs, if im not mistaken. I would go here for some dinosaur training maybe, but going that heavy one day would trash rest of my training days, I would try to do 5x5 system, but that could kill me pretty well

By elbows flaring out to the sides, you mean I should keep my elbows closer together (I don't really know how to explain that) instead of leaving them pointed to the sides, right? And that should be the proper form of HeSPU.

I will look onto some band work for medial delts, but Im rather fan of using bands for shoulder warmup, than for conditioning itself, Im a firm believer in 3-5 reps with heavy weight if I can add it (dips, pullups), so Ive never really used my bands for conditioning.

Meh. Importing new things in my routine will be pain in the ass, as always. I have that kinda feeling like squeezing last bits of toothpaste out of the tub, when trying to improve my workout with the free time Ive been given.

[Joshua Naterman]

Use dirt. Cement dust can give you cancer.

Start off with 5 lbs. 30 will not be possible without arching the upper back and that defeats the purpose of doing the exercise.

Military press is different because you are really not given a choice whether to arch or not, it is the nature of lifting a straight bar past your face. If anything, this can teach bad form. Use dumbbells and do shoulder press instead, as I described. You CAN do both, but focus on the hollow position presses. They are what will benefit you in terms of GB progression.

[Uzeeh]

With a hollow body, do you mean doing seated db shoulder presses with a "balled" back? (ie protracted)

[Joshua Naterman]

I prefer standing but if you can do these correctly seated then that's fine.

There is some protraction, but I am talking about actual thoracic spine curvature. You want the exact opposite of a bridge, you want to be curved like you're at the top of a crunch. Shoulder joints should be directly above hip joints.

Remember, you should be doing your arch holds and other back work as well, if this is all you do you WILL end up with a problem. That's not a fault of the exercise, that's a fault of the trainee. Take care of your body. This is meant to specifically enhance your ability to press vertically and help prepare you for handstand work, it is NOT meant to be done alone. This is the same as everything else.