Please Help With Starter Program For Running and Grappling

Hello to anyone who can help me!

I'm 37 years old and coming off a long period of sports injuries and rehab. Previously I have background of 12 years weightlifting (started at 16), university track (sprinting), kickboxing, Grappling/Brazilian Jiujitsu, and since I turned 30, competitive long distance running.

At this stage, I am going to suspend running for a few years because of a damaged hip, but will return at some point. Therefore, would like any advice on how to avoid gaining weight or otherwise antagonizing running form while doing strength training. I'm convinced Gymnastics training is far superior to weigh-training for my sports but still it must be done carefully.

I would also love to hear any advice with respect to Gymnastics training for grappling, which will be the next phase of training in the years to come for me.

My overall routine will include the following:

1. swimming/water running and doing yoga in the mornings for about 75 minutes 4-5 days a week.

2. 10-15 minutes of Tabata's 3 evenings a week. Gymnastics strength training the same 3 evenings a week.

3. training with my grappling club just 2 evenings a week.

4. Daily physiotherapy for my hip (long term) including bridging, lower core work. Also daily will be light grappling drills.

This program is geared heavily towards conditioning, less towards skills for grappling, because I have to protect my hip.

Here's where I need help.

The Gymnastics Bodies book outlines a great program. I will be doing static holds monday, wednesday, and friday. Basic strength will be monday and friday. But I have the following refinement questions:

1. What series of static hold positions would best prepare me for grappling, build the muscles around my bad hip, emphasize lower body and upper body equally, and otherwise lead to balanced development not prone to injury?

2. What basic strength exercises will do the same?

3. What dynamic exercises could be added in later? (I'm a bit worried that the static and basic strength training will reduce my mobility/agility)

4. A personal pleasure would be to eventually learn to do HSPUs and Planche pushups and ring work in this routine.

5. What joint prehab is vital to avoid injuries later?

Just to emphasize, lower body and hip strength/stability are a top priority, as is maintaining a low body weight and dynamism.

Thanks so much for any advice and expertise. I really am over my head with this gymanstics training which is what makes it so great. I'm totally pumped about the whole thing and want to do it all. Just want to get it right. Any and all advice and ideas is very much appreciated.

Jeremy in

Toronto

Wow. Let's focus on that first priority, the hip, in my first post.

First off, welcome to GB!

For hip stability you are going to want to focus on a progression of exercises. I'm going to go ahead and put this out there right now:

1) Please obtain approval of your physician before doing any of this. That's for liability reasons as well as your own personal safety.

2) For everything I recommend, while full ROM is ideal it is by no means required. You should absolutely work into that slowly, so pick a resistance that allows some degree of motion without compromised form and SLOWLY work into full ROM with that. It may be a tedious process at first but it will more or less "guarantee" success.

So, to start:

Injury history! What happened, are there repeat injuries, what was done to correct the problem (eg acetabular labroscopy or reattachment, etc) and what symptoms do you still have? What aggravates the hip currently and what makes it feel better?

Without that information I can't make specific recommendations, so I will go ahead and outline a basic protocol.

This really should be done more or less in this order. Remember, pain-free ROM is what we want. That will extend over time. Only when motion is perfect and ROM is full should we consider adding weight.

1) Lateral squats in a straddle, feet parallel. These can be done alternating sides each rep or all L and then all R side. 5-10 reps, start with 5 and reduce if that's too much, or add a rep each workout until you find what works for you. I will probably need to make some videos for this to make total sense, but that will be a little while.

2) Split squats with neutral hips. That means your hips are even horizontally and tilted neither anteriorly or posteriorly OR laterally! This can be challenging at first, and you will feel a stretch on the rectus femoris of the back leg if done properly unless you truly have excellent flexibility.

3)Single leg deadlifts. Same rules as #2. Almost everyone screws this up and without the hips positioned as described you completely change which muscles are emphasized which makes this exercise useless. Very important to feel this exclusively (pretty much) in the glutes, specifically the side glutes (medius and minimus). This wakes up the hip abductors and external rotators.

4) Single leg squat variations. I will get into more detail here later, I have to go to class!

5) Sideways, backwards, and forward tire sled pulls, if they do not bother you. These are incredible for conditioning, far and away the hardest single thing I have ever done. These are honestly a bit harder than prowler sprints. These are really a separate exercise, but since they are NOT an isolation move they are listed here in the integrated section.

Next post will detail isolation work.

Ditto the welcome!

Regarding your question I should add that I do not know the answer,

and that you should listen to Slizz regarding the your injury matters.

When you say hip injury, you should clarify if you mean it you have a

joint, ligament, tendon, muscular or an undetermined pain.

I am just giving you my impression, which is of some one who has done

GB for about six months, and has also grappled for six month though

not recently. So allow me to riff on.

It seems to me that it is hard to find a sport that doesn't involve the hip

and grappling is no exception. It's highly involved in takedowns and

is everything in BJJ movement. It's easy to be thrown and land on our hip

(though not correct) so I'm not quite sure why you are risking it

if it still requires rehab. Personally, I found that most of the people

I was paired with did not go easy, even when I asked them to. And I also

tended to overdo it in response to that. So sitting out is really the

safest option until fully healed.

That said, gymnastics will certainly help grappling, mainl through the strength and strength-endurance

aspects. Most of it is core and upper body, so your

leg work will have to come from other things as slizz described above.

What I found what was the most important in grappling was skill, more than strength.

I was thrown and almost submitted by a 12 year old boy! I probably would have

tapped if he was older. But silly pride you know? Anyway, my point is that

strength is secondary because typically you are dealing with balance, position,

leverage, and using your stronger or levered muscles against your opponent's weaker

or unlevered ones. So having flexibility, speed, coordination, strength and most of all skill are important. And having skill during drills is not the same as when rolling, which is not the same as having it during a competition, which is not the same

as having it during an actual street fight. So if you time to improve one of these, which should it be?

Honestly, I am asking you beause I really do not know. :?

Anyway, one thing I'd question about your plan is the tabata before(?) the gymnastics.

Tabata intervals are a Vo2max effort and should exhaust you, if you

are doing them right. I don't know if you're using kettlebells or riding a bike or what, but I don't think it matters. It is too hard before doing GB in my opinion. Low intensity cardio like 20-30 minutes before training gymnastics is what

has been recommended (there is a cardio thread stickyed). So you may want to rethink

this part. If you can't run, then you might want to walk briskly or ride a bike or use an elliptical. I think your water running would suffice if it got your HR up to 60-70%, or about a 5 out of 10 relative exertion level.

You can still do tabata or training at max, but it's not recommended before

GB. And after GB you probably won't want to be flinging 50 pound hunks

of iron through the air, if you value your life and possessions.

Anyway, that's about all that I have to say. You will have to feel your way through it,

and find what works best for you, and I wish you good luck and progress.

Progress is certain, however you can't rush it. Read the getting started sticky threads above for sure.

Thanks Guys!

Wow, thanks for those great replies. I'm going to respond in 2 separate posts to be clear.

Slizzardman,

1. Thanks for being so upfront with respect to the liability question and let me just say categorically that any and all exercise I do with my injured hip is 100% MY responsibility. I won't be seeking more advice from my doctor, because neither he, nor the sports doctor, nor the orthopedic surgeon know much, to be honest. But EVERYTHING I do will be passed by my physical therapist. It took me a year to find him, he understands my hip problem very well, and can vet whatever I do. So please feel free to give any advice you wish.

2. Fortunately I have 100% ROM and very good flexibility in the lunge in the squatting positions. Splits however have always been atrocious as is hamstring flexibility. Upper body flexibility is actually pretty good.

3. The basic protocol on your post looks fantastic and I absolutely appreciate this. Based on my experience in rehap so far, all of those exercises will be 100% safe and very good for my hip, although the sled pulls will have to be tested as you say. I will do those very exercises once rehap is complete and keep posting. I just have to add, is isolation work exercises specifically targeting the joint muscles themselves?

Hey FutureisNow,

Thanks to you, too, for the welcome. It's a bit scary being new on a forum and thanks to you guys for being so supportive.

You are totally correct that the hips are used very heavily in grappling. And frankly many of the demands will be off the table. But to be honest, I don't have any pain or problems with the vast majority of movements at this time. It really is the adductor movement that has caused pain the past, sitting, or walking. Lying down is fine, as is fitting in someone else's guard, or being in the mount or bridging, or executing single leg takedowns. Of course, I have not grappled in 2011 and going back to it will be a learning process. But whatever happens, gymnastics training will be a part of the program.

As you say skill is much more important than strength which is the way I intend to train and fight. Strength can only be the back up for safety.

Holy that is well said with respect to the differences between drills, grappling, competition, and street fight. Yes, all are very different, and honestly the only really safe thing is drills. But also light sparring with a physically small black belt -- a friend of mine who runs his own club -- will be the way to go, I think. The muscles of my body are in very good shape as are all the other joints. So, I think of drills, light sparring, and competition maybe once a year, with NO street fighting Do you think I'm crazy?

Sounds good. I've enjoyed doing the GB ... haven't gotten aboard the WOD train. I do a reasonable warm up, stretch, don't over do it and listen to my body. When it says uncle, I stop. I do GB 2x week, but I am not emphazing strength at the moment.

"Therefore, would like any advice on how to avoid gaining weight or otherwise antagonizing running form while doing strength training. I'm convinced Gymnastics training is far superior to weigh-training for my sports but still it must be done carefully. "

Regarding weight gain, you shouldn't gain mass unless you are eating a surplus of calories in exccess of your requirements.

It's always an estimate, but keep tabs on your weight. I run 5K events occassionally, and have certainly lost some fat and added muscle while doing the bodyweight stuff which should help. Overall down about 8 pounds, but I also was on a diet for a while.

Threre is no shortage of nutritional advice around, however the main thing I found helpful was upping my protein intake levels in general and around workouts. A lot of good things followed automatically . And depending how much you want to mess with your diet, you can.

When you say ...

"Strictly speaking I should abandon both running and grappling and do non-impact sports instead given the OA (arthritis). But I love running and grappling and have decided to continue with one in moderation"

Sometimes OA is a blanket diagnosis for joint pain. Did they find a lower than normal bone density? That might be more of a concern. For older athletes (and I am one) a good rule of thumb is that if you have a doubt about doing something because of the way your body feels, you shouldn't do it. If your Doctor tells you to stop, you can decide if you want to or not, but if your body tells you to stop, you are wise to respect it

Actually I didn't ask any questions about bone density but I'll keep that in mind.Only it seems I have denser than normal bones because I always sink in the pool.

"a good rule of thumb is that if you have a doubt about doing something because of the way your body feels, you shouldn't do it. If your Doctor tells you to stop, you can decide if you want to or not, but if your body tells you to stop, you are wise to respect it "

A very good point to keep in mind. I hadn't thought of it quite that clearly. Thanks!

You do GB twice a week but don't emphasize strength in it? I though gymnastics, especially GB, was all about strength at least at first. Are you doing dynamic work? How do you feel GB has influenced your 5k runs and the way you feel running?

I'll try to keep away from junk food, but that's pretty hard to do long term, when ice cream sandwiches are so good. Interesting you actually noticed a difference in upping your protein intake -- more size? I guess the key to keeping a stable weight is enough protein to avoid injury without hypertrophy. Personally, I put muscle on very, very easy, both when starting with weights back in '91 and especially now with the "muscle memory" thing. Even grappling alone makes me kind've blow up.

What is your goal with the GB?

By not empasizing strength at this time, I just meant overall, in the total picture. I have more of an endurance emphasis

in my training right now. Strength is there through the ring work primarily and some weights. Within the ring work, of course

I want to get better and stronger, however I am not doing it enough for optimal progress in this regard. There have been

some improvements of course.

I would say the stronger core helps running. Less energy is wasted. Since I've lost some weight it's hard to seperate

the benefits because I also feel a little lighter on my feet. The rings aren't doing a lot for the legs though. Strength training the

legs for running is a debated topic to begin with. In preparation for my next run I will be doing hills bounding primarily

for improving strength (which doesn't translate directly to speed but makes it possible at least). Anyway I would like to break

25 or 24 mins for the 5K which should happen soon (not that fast but about the same as when I was 28 many moons ago).

Some upper body hypertrophy is not a big problem in terms of running 5K and certainly not in sprinting.

It's close to the center and not a big drag. Leg muscle hypertrophy for endurance runs is more of

a problem due to "mitochondrial dilution", but again for not a big deal for sprinters, and not going to happen anyway.

But our bodies just won't pack on muscle unless there is a surplus of calories and protein calories in particular (there may be). It won't convert fat to muscle directly, but even if it did, you'd end up weighing about the same. Sometimes losing some fat can make you appear more muscular. Or you may be referring to the pump effect, which just temporary. But you're lucky if you can put on muscle easily - it will help with GB and grappling and I don't think you should be concerned about it.

With GB at this point I'd like to get a front and back lever, and a handstand. Have a long way to go, but starting

to see some progress. For a while I was doing just basic stuff, but now am getting into more progressions and I'm finding it

quite interesting. For dynamic, I haven't done a lot yet. Some swinging and swinging dips perhaps?

Thanks for your interest and nice words. Good luck!

FIN

I'm not sure upper body strength is too important for running middle or long distance. With my coaches help, it took about 3 months early on to "trim the fat", including muscle, to get my upper body where it needed to be for longer events, by which I mean primarily 5K and 10K (or anything over 400m). Unless a runner has a congenital weakness, upper body training really slows one down, not just by weight, but by throwing off the lower body dynamic needed. A little upper strength is okay to drive the legs, but most people don't need any special training for that. Actually, check out you tube on some good runners and you will there is no upper body there. I don't expect GB to help me, should I make it back to running; hopefully it can be undone faster than other types of strength training. That's the part I don't know about. But it's not too important now. I'm 37 and really won't be improving any past times anyway so not sure if I'll compete again.

But your goals are quite different than mine were. For loosing weight, being healthy, and bringing a time down from 24 minutes it shouldn't be an issue. Seems your going for overall health, so more power to you.

I'll try to keep a low body weight through controlling diet as best I can. Good suggestions. Certainly strength will reduce risk of injury in grappling, but as you say, it is no substitute for technique especially with an injury. I'm still pretty new to this sport and have a long way to go. Funny, I picked it because it was something one can improve on throughout mid-life.

How old are you and how long have you been practicing GB by the way? What are your goals with it?

Yah I agree that at in competetive long distance running at the highest level, excess upper body muscle

is dead weight. I could see how it might throw off the motion as well. My

goals are more overall health, strength and appearance, as you suggest. I also play tennis,

about 4 level, so my right arm/chest is around 10% bigger than my left, so GB

may even them out, lol.

Edit: I should also add that a rep range of 3-5 per set (see above sticky)

is used frequently, which is geared for strength over hypertrophy. If you do

enough of anything you will get some hypertrophy - but it's typically less than using a

8-12 rep scheme.

GB Goals : 1,2 front/back lever and 3 handstand. Am working progressions

of the same. Initially I had interest in the muscle up but I find

pull-ups and dips challenging enough, and what I'm doing probably

more beneficial for my objectives than working on the MU transition, which

I may get back to later.

I tend to forget my age ... does that give you a clue?

If you have OA on the posterior and lateral aspect of the femoral head I would get your posture screened very, very carefully. You're looking for apparent slight external rotation of the right leg relative. I say apparent because it is much more likely that the rotation is actually at the hips, with the right hip sitting every so slightly lower and anteriorly tilted compared to the left. This will probably be a function of a tight iliopsoas complex on the left side and tight quadratus lumborum on both sides.

The likelihood of a dysfunctional movement pattern like what I just described is higher than a genetic defect in just one femoral head. It is most likely the offsetting of the hips that is causing the problem. Fixing this, should it be the major part of the problem, will drastically slow down the progression of your OA and may take you to a completely asymptomatic condition.

This will have to be approached with a very close eye. It is also possible that the rotation, should it be present, is caused by spinal rotators and the internal/external obliques and possibly even one or more of the spinal erectors. Check them all for tension and motion balance.

If you're competing 5k and 10k you don't need to worry about your size too much, which is good for your grappling because some extra upper body muscle WILL help.

As far as grappling goes, the most important things for you to do are 1)develop your multi-plane pulling and 2) develop your muscle up! Those will be your bread and butter because they are how you develop the ability to really control position and move around at will, exhibiting an odd type of strength that won't make sense to someone who just lifts weights.

The Book does a pretty good job of describing how to pull this off, and I have a feeling that the 2nd edition will be quite a bit more detailed, but it really is pretty simple: You develop the vertical pulling strength with pull up and chin variations and you develop the horizontal pulling strength with row variations. Eventually you will be able to combine them into yewkis and reverse yewkis, which honestly be the most useful for you. Front pulls and front lever pulls are a close second on the list, with front lever pulls being much more important for you due to the bent-arm nature of grappling positions. That doesn't mean you don't work front pulls as well, just focus SLIGHTLY more on the front lever pull.

Next priority is straight arm strength. I suggest you start by building a strong palms-down German hang and eventually getting used to pulling out of that with straight arms. After that you would slowly turn that into a tuck BL pull, and from there follow the book progressions. At the same time I would start on the planche prerequisite progressions, which means (amongst other things) mastering the floor L-sit first before trying actual planche holds.

Slizzardman,

I can't thank you enough for your last post.

A quick look on the net afterwards brought me to this site.

http://www.bodywindow.com/foam-roller-e ... psoas.html

I just got out my foam roller and did the exercise and got some relief. Today driving and taking my 4 year old son to playgrounds all afternoon started a lot of hip pain. As with every other day since around March, as mentioned. These days especially from long hours sitting at work.

Thanks so much.

After reading your post, I left a message for the podiatrist who has a video camera immediately. I also called a massage therapist and left her a message. I'm going to print off that post and take that info. directly to these appointments.

Are these appointments sufficient?

I must add that my left leg -- hamstring, hips -- have been far tighter than the right (which is also tight) for MANY years.

(Thanks for the grappling advice; I'll respond about that in a later post.)

I need some clarification: OA is the left hip, yes? If so, I believe you may need to swap all the sides I mentioned but you'll be looking for the same pattern. Right just became left.

Which hip do you currently have pain in, the R or L when sitting? I am assuming it's all the same side but I can't afford to assume.

Lastly, any kind of imbalance will lead to further imbalances, which is why those of us who are more experienced athletes are so big on "prehab" as we call it! Prehab is all about rehabbing imbalances before they cause problems that we can feel.

I am sorry about your experience with that Graston practitioner, they are starting to piss me off. I know another guy who got messed up by one of those guys... they don't seem to understand that you aren't supposed to be in ridiculous pain during treatment and that you aren't supposed to dig deeper than the tissue allows... Be careful and trust your common sense during treatments, they should be somewhat uncomfortable but not actually painful.

When you sit, make sure your knees are a decent bit above hip level and are not allowed to rotate out. If you need to, strap a belt around your lower quads to keep the upper legs parallel during sitting while in training you use a multi-directional squat complex + SLSL DL to balance the hip musculature and cause that position to be automatic so that you can ditch the belt.

Yes, all the pain is in the left side, sitting, walking, etc. I figures as much to switch sides, no prob.

The physio is working on imbalances of course and it has been a pretty slow and consistent workup. Twice a week I squat on this vibrating pad for 8-10 sets of 30 seconds. Initially this took away some glut pain from one of these imbalances. I'm not sure what difference it makes now. An interesting thing is that for a day or 2 after one-legged leg presses there is no pain, but then it just comes back. This must be because the muscles are tense and contracted in the short-term after "heavier" lifting. However, the lower body is much smoother, much more functional and athletic than 6 weeks ago.

"Prehab" is about correcting imbalances. Interesting. I had been under the impression it was about strengthening weak points, like the wrists, to prepare for gymnastics. The hard part is identifying these imbalances. In running I relied on my partner/coach to "diagnose" for me. What I have to do is study up on the dynamics of functional activity. That's all there is to it.

I'm going to try sitting as you describe today. Thanks.

Sitting is stationary and will not cause OA to worse or to develop, it is dysfunctional motion that causes grinding and degeneration. Well, unless there is a genetic defect or something

Single leg work helps for a day or two because the entire hip becomes more active and after 24-48 hours you have been de-trained again. You need to be doing those almost every day and never have more than 1 day off. You don't need to do huge volume, 1 set twice a day on most days with just your bodyweight should be sufficient to maintain benefits. Work in slowly and see how you feel. You should also get radiographic records for when you start and then again 6-12 months later to see what the rate of degeneration is and how different things affect it. That may not be practical, but if it is I would suggest that you do that!

Slizzardman,

Interestingly, yesterday and today, I have to say that simply keeping my knees in front has worked wonders and I actually feel much better. You must have been bang on. Next Monday is the video gait analysis, and I'll let you know the results out of interests sake. Tomorrow is PT and I'm going to see about increasing the frequency of squats.

German hangs, planche progressions, floor L-Sit, yewkis...I got it. Now, the GB book offers a program of 6 static holds 3 times a week plus 3-5 reps on alternating pushing-pulling and core-legs for basic strength. Which static holds would you recommend? Are there any static holds useful for lower body in addition to the L-sits? Would it be best to simply add in squat variations to build the lower body or better to add in extra lower body statics?

Hi FutureisNow,

Sorry I took so long to get back to you....

Tennis, running, and GB is not a bad combination at all. This is the type of thing that will add years to your life and life to your years, whatever they may be. I also agree that 3-5 reps will not typically add much size for most people.

Your GB goals are front and back lever plus handstands....do you have lower body goals in there as well? And, are the dips to help you with the levers?

A big question: how is body speed and dynamism developed in gymnastics? In my 20s after I pretty much quit weightlifting while getting more into running and kickboxing at the time I found that boxing speed just kept improving the skinnier I got. Interestingly, strength diminished but not entirely. . . Is it possible with gymnastics training to have the strength and speed too (for martial arts training)? How would that be achieved? Gotta wounder.

Jeremy said:

Hi FutureisNow,

Sorry I took so long to get back to you....

Tennis, running, and GB is not a bad combination at all. This is the type of thing that will add years to your life and life to your years, whatever they may be. I also agree that 3-5 reps will not typically add much size for most people.

Your GB goals are front and back lever plus handstands....do you have lower body goals in there as well? And, are the dips to help you with the levers?

A big question: how is body speed and dynamism developed in gymnastics? In my 20s after I pretty much quit weightlifting while getting more into running and kickboxing at the time I found that boxing speed just kept improving the skinnier I got. Interestingly, strength diminished but not entirely. . . Is it possible with gymnastics training to have the strength and speed too (for martial arts training)? How would that be achieved? Gotta wounder.

For speed you would literally want to do slightly weighted punch throws, speed twisting band rows and speed twisting band punches. There's actually a huge range of speed work that you'd want to do, it's hard to list them all. You would want to do a bit of that in your warm ups, not to failure or even fatigue but simply to just before the point where speed would begin to diminish. That is very important. You'd want to run 6-8 week steady state cycles because that's the timeline for full neural adaptation. THEN you reassess where your speed begins to diminish and re-adjust. This is the simple way to do it. After some speed work you should actually be primed for strength work, and with very specific parameters you can use strength work to prime for speed as well, but that's getting not really on topic lol!

[

Jeremy said:

Your GB goals are front and back lever plus handstands....do you have lower body goals in there as well? And, are the dips to help you with the levers?

Dips/pullups are in there for arms, chest and back. Overall important for pushing and pulling moves for sure. They are something I can do completely, which is mainly why they are in there. Have a way to go before holding a full lever.

I occasionally do a lower body workout. Currently doing hill bounding as part of my 5K training which essentially

is plyometric. I would like to be able to do SLS eventually though haven't started on it. I may have the strength now as can single leg press press 180, over my bw, but not the flexibiliy/coordination.

Jeremy said:

A big question: how is body speed and dynamism developed in gymnastics? In my 20s after I pretty much quit weightlifting while getting more into running and kickboxing at the time I found that boxing speed just kept improving the skinnier I got. Interestingly, strength diminished but not entirely. . . Is it possible with gymnastics training to have the strength and speed too (for martial arts training)? How would that be achieved? Gotta wounder.

I agree that weight (and strength to weight ratio) makes a difference with speed. It certainly does in running and gymnastics.

Also speed has to do with competence - once the motion is physically and mentally easy to perform correctly, adding speed can be considered. In grappling, to me, speed mostly comes into play during scrambling and perhaps takedowns. In most other situations working positions slowly and steadily is advised, Space is more important than time in this regard.

Slizzardman, with respect to the speedwork, let me clarify. . . I won't be competing in any pugilist sports, only grappling, and for that I feel that I have enough speed now without any training...actually yoga does wonders for conditioning for grappling and beyond that some kind of endurance training would be enough for me....but, my hope is that gymnastics training will build strength around the hips to reduce chance of injury. Plus it will be a lot of fun. Second to that, doing lots of static and basic strength, just based off my experience with weightlifting, reduces speed. Moving the body slow with a heavy weight, whether the body or an object, will teach the nervous system and musculature to move slowly too. Just from experience, that's what I've found, and static holds, progressions, and slow body-weight movements, I am sure, will do just the same thing, at least to my body. But of course there are dynamic exercises that gymnasts use, and there seems to be good quickness in some of the tumbling events and pommel....am I right?....so, is there a way to start training for quickness from the beginning in gymnastics training along with the basic strength, such as for a non-gymnast with goals such as mine? Or perhaps adding in speed/dynamic work after a few months of strength to integrate into a training cycle?

Future, That hill bounding seems quite interesting and I bet it feels great to do....had never heard of that one...Certainly with grappling explosiveness and speed is helpful but not fundamental as with MMA or boxing. . . as you say, takedowns use it, but if you are good off your back, there's only a couple points to loose in being taken down...some speed helps but strategy rules on the ground FOR SURE. So really, you are doing tennis, running, gymnastics, and grappling...are you competing in grappling?

Jeremy said:

Future, That hill bounding seems quite interesting and I bet it feels great to do....had never heard of that one...Certainly with grappling explosiveness and speed is helpful but not fundamental as with MMA or boxing. . . as you say, takedowns use it, but if you are good off your back, there's only a couple points to loose in being taken down...some speed helps but strategy rules on the ground FOR SURE. So really, you are doing tennis, running, gymnastics, and grappling...are you competing in grappling?

No sir. Not competing. Not even training. I'd like to get back into it, but to be honest it was too brusing on my body, and interfered with the other things. What I'd really like to find is a place that incorporated Flow BJJ drills instead of sparring. It is like light rolling without going for the submissions - just getting the position and partner tapping, and then transitioning. But like anything you need to do it a lot to get good at it, and 2-3x week minimum is hard to fit in.

Have you started doing any of the basic stuff yet? There is a lot you can do without rings. The FSP (fundamental static positions) work on getting those for 60 seconds - starting in 15 or 30 second chunks. Hanging on a chin bar. Also pullups on monkey bars, dips on chairs. It took me too long to start. I wouldn't worry about getting slow. It's a bit like static stretching before a race - it's a temporary effect; if you do something quick like strides afterwards you regain the contactile speed. I analysed too long before starting; the sooner you start the better

Hi Future,

The thing is, I don't yet have the go ahead from my PT to start with the training, and I don't want to create any new imbalances by training some areas and not others. But yeah, as soon as possible, I'll get to that stuff.

I totally get ya regarding getting all bruised up and so on grappling. If I wanted to get built up physically or battered, I'd do it some other way. Way to go is LIGHT and with THOUGHT. Not possible to do everything, every sport -- hopefully we've all got lives! LOL But with a good plan ya can do everything you need.

Jeremy said:

Hi Future,

The thing is, I don't yet have the go ahead from my PT to start with the training, and I don't want to create any new imbalances by training some areas and not others. But yeah, as soon as possible, I'll get to that stuff.

I totally get ya regarding getting all bruised up and so on grappling. If I wanted to get built up physically or battered, I'd do it some other way. Way to go is LIGHT and with THOUGHT. Not possible to do everything, every sport -- hopefully we've all got lives! LOL But with a good plan ya can do everything you need.

What's the saying, life is what happens while you're busy making plans? But a good, flexible plan helps, yup.

May I ask the name of the Dojo you're planning to go to Jeremy? I am familar with a number of them in the Toronto area.

PM if you prefer.

Now is NOT the time to start training. I want to train for a good time AND a long time.

Interesting you know about dojos in the Toronto area.....do you live in the GTA? I have trained with the toronto grappling club in north york but frankly for next year...I'd rather start up again more local in the Brampton-Caledon area ....but the trainer at TGC was VERY good with going light and that's the kind of training that's best for my injury AND skills...but for sure, I'd like to hear whatever you recommend...