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Coach Sommer

Excellent One Arm Chin-ups

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Coach Sommer

Excellent One Arm Chin-ups

The following

is of a young man who is extremely proficient at one arm chin-up work. Interestingly, his pressing strength is no where nearly as impressive as his pulling strength.

This is not a skill that I have ever pursued with my own athletes. Is there anyone else on the board who has accomplished the OAC? If so what advantages or disadvantages have you found in training this movement.

Ido, what are your thoughts regarding OACs? If my memory serves me correctly, this is something that you have accomplished.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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cathal

i am currently working OAC's coach. i have posted my workouts on another forum which can be viewed here http://bodyweightculture.com/forum/show ... php?t=8734.

at the moment im working weighted negatives(BW+8lbs) and one arm positives with the other arm assisting by pulling down on a simple towel at progressively lower distances down the towel.

one thing i have seen is a big increase in lat+bicep muscle mass and strength. to be honest i havent seen a great carryover in strength to my front lever but i think it has benefitted my iron cross to some extent.

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Blairbob

Yes, Cisco is a pull freak as Rog ( owner/operator of Drillsandskills, CrossFitMarin, CrossFit Gymnastics program director ) used to say when they used to coach at the same gym in Marin.

A few years ago, a couple more of his videos were put on crossfit like 7 OAC and FLPU.

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kbryk

He has impressive pulling strength, I watched some of his other videos before.

I've worked one arm let downs, and heavy chin/pull up, those two helped me in the gymnastics world coming from a small climbing background, I was able to do a muscle up easily, my back was already developed; I wouldn't worked this skill if anything stick with rope climbs and making Eccentric part of the rope climb long and hard, that's what I worked the most and I hit a sticking point while working on my OACs after you go from straight arm to about 90 degrees the skill really kicks in full gear.

So to sum up, I babble on a lot, I would just work eccentric movements on the rope climb, and then one day one of your gymnast's will pull and OAC.

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John Sapinoso

I can do 1-2 per arm on occasion, really the only the thing that can be accomplished by this versus a similar movement like cirque negatives, i think is that a OAC looks way more badass

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Nic Scheelings

What an excellent Video! I am also working the OAC at the moment and i'm extremely hopeful of achieving full range reps soon as i'm bout 3/4 of the way there. At a bodyweight of 82 Kg i think it would be pretty impressive. Amazingly a friend of mine managed to do an OAC and a front lever with no specific training! He is extremely strong but also very light weighing about 53 kg.

Cathal i also don't feel the OAC work is helping front lever at all. One of my friends can do a lever but struggles to even lock off with one arm. Whereas i'm decent with the one arm moves but i'm stranded on a one legged front lever.

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braindx

Hmm, Blair directed me here.

I can do 4 each arm (although recording tonight I only got 3... & sorry bad angle didn't see the wood blocking my feet you'll have to take my word that I didn't push off).

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3695&hl=en

As someone already said.. these have the propensity for drastically increasing biceps and lat strength and mass (if you eat for it).

From what I can tell there is some good carryover to both front lever and cross work. However, the one thing these are extremely good for is any straight arm work like maltese or inverted cross. If your elbows/biceps are not strong enough to handle the stress, these will bring up the strength very quickly so that these straight arm moves don't damage the elbow by hyperextension... although there's obviously other ways to do this as well.

Therefore, I would say these are mainly only to be worked as an assistance exercise at best. You're better off working on the gymnastics strength moves and sequences most of the time... most bang for your buck at least.

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Coach Sommer

Are OACs Necessary for Advanced Ring Strength Elements?

In my experience, I have found that it is not at all unusual for very strong athletes with tremendous pulling abilities (i.e. cirques, OACs) to still be relatively weak on straight arm skills. The correlation between bent arm strength and straight arm strength, past a certain level of basic proficiency, is murky at best. Hence, my lack of focus on OACs in the past. Also, with the exception of our own Ido Portal, most people who are proficient at OACs tend to be rather slender which generally is not advantageous for advanced ring strength elements.

I must admit that I am still doubtful that there would be any significant transfer to maltese work etc. from working OACs; however it is possible that I have been mistaken. Would someone with OACs (perhaps braindx?) mind posting a video of your maltese or inverted cross work for comparison?

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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braindx

I didn't say they had significant transfer to maltese... I said there is significant transfer into straight arm work NAMELY the biceps strength you develop from them is good for helping to protect the elbows. Anterior delts and chest are pretty much the prime muscles holding the maltese which are obviously not worked as well with OAC.. although the biceps is hit with OAC.

From what I recall anterior delts, clavicular head of the pec and long head of the biceps showed the greatest EMG results during maltese work.

----------------------------------

Regardless, I'll try to get one sometime this week though.

Currently I'm working maltese leans (full ROM) from the knees (then trying to progress down the shins to the toes). I've found full ROM down to maltese position makes you work harder than just leans (which I know is how someone got one of theirs). Might add some other stuff like what was on the AmericanGymnast maltese guide a bit back. We'll see.. basically an experiment right now since I'm trying to hit both planche and maltese on rings.

malteseleansmq0.th.jpg

Wish I had a pulley system though..

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Gregor

I'm combining that exercise, it's good. For me the pully system helped less then other exercises for maltese.

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braindx

Two angles. Sorry for the crap form.. just felt like doing them and it's 3 AM and I'm tired. :(

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3939&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 6235&hl=en

I'm probably about 30-40 degrees or so from maltese with the torso. Feet are there already but it's arched so doesn't count. Basically, I judge progress by torso lean. Not half bad considering that this was my first time doing these in a couple months.

Main thing though is I feel them in anterior delts and chest. I do not feel them much in my biceps anymore because they have been strengthened fairly well with OAC work... so that's probably the only plus/carryover to maltese that you're gonna get (and basically the only one I'm supporting with my posts.. hope you didn't think otherwise). Though maltese does require lat strength so that will help a little.

-----------

Gregor what other exercises do you use to train maltese? Or rather, since I think you have one (correct?) what type of work did you use to train it.

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Coach Sommer

OACs, Maltese Tips and Other Odds & Ends

Stephen,

Thanks for the videos and nice progress on your maltese development. You may find it helpful to note that it is also quite acceptable to adjust your body position as necessary (tuck, straddle, 1/2 lay etc.) while performing these leans. In the long run, you will probably find that it is more helpful to get deeper into the maltese with an adjusted body position than staying extended but with a much higher degree of angle.

Also do not lift your head or allow your back to arch, this makes the maltese unnecessarily more difficult.

A spotter is necessary to maximize the benefits of this movement. In the absence of a spotter, I prefer iron woody bands (or pallet bands or bungees) to a pulley system. Set up correctly, a bungee-type arrangement can provide a customized assistance to a surprising degree.

Gregor,

It is interesting that you are working OACs. When you mention that you are combining this exercise do you mean that you are combining OACs into your ring strength training? Would you mind sharing with us how you structure this?

Personally, when training athletes on malteses I prefer 5 sets of 10 second holds. If an athlete is unable to maintain the static hold for 10 seconds, but rather reaches 3 seconds, he will rest for a few breaths and then perform another 3 second hold and then rest a few more breaths and then perform the last 3 second hold. These 3 x 3 second holds would constitute one "set". The athlete would then rest 3-5 minutes before performing another "set".

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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braindx

Thanks for the tips. I'll try them out tomorrow.

Yeah, and unfortunately I have no spotter or the setup for bands.. so I just gotta make do. :(

At best though, like I said, I think OAC are great for elbow protection. They won't help much with the anterior delt and chest strength you need for maltese or inverted... but at least your elbows will be safe. Then again, you're probably fine with other types of pulling work to protect the elbows.

Assistance exercise at best. Or if you wanna impress your friends...

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Coach Sommer

Actually the bands arrangement is quite easy to set up and works quite well from something as simple as a pull-up tower.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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gymrob

I have never trained for a one arm chin up/ pullup directly but have just trained for my goals: planche and front lever and their pushup/ pullup variations, but I was delighted to discover a few months ago that I could perform a full range negative one arm chin on my first attempt but I didn't try the positive (pull up) motion.

Hopefully a full range one arm chin up/ pullup will be a goal that's not too far away in the future and I am also training the front lever so will be able to see what kind carryover (if any) there is.

Judging by the videos of your athletes coach I bet they could easily perform OAP's :D

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Gregor

Gregor,

It is interesting that you are working OACs. When you mention that you are combining this exercise do you mean that you are combining OACs into your ring strength training? Would you mind sharing with us how you structure this?

No, no, I'm not working OACs :D I'm working the exercise in the picture above.

One more thing about maltese, I had problems with straight body position and correct balance with sholders and legs. I couldn't correct the mistake. One day I just turn my sholders maximuml in (twisted in) and from that day I can feel maltese and can hold it in correct body position in the line.

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realworldpractice
Actually the bands arrangement is quite easy to set up and works quite well from something as simple as a pull-up tower.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach Sommer, rings are THE tool in your book, but will resistance band and power tower (also called pull-up tower) are also helpful and good to have?

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Blairbob

In a gym we don't need power towers since there are plenty of high bars and probably a few parallel bars to work on. One set of PB, works for about 2-4 kids.

It's good to have a power tower in home to hang your rings from. Also, good to hang on and do leg lifts.

I'm thinking that having a band at home is about as spotter as one can get without having a workout buddy spot.

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Guest Ido Portal

My experience with the OAC

I'm not sure the one arm chin up is the most bang for your buck exercise for a gymnast, but I feel its main benefit is in the shoulder joint and not just the elbow - flexing strength.

After achieving the one arm chin up, you start to feel a change in your shoulders that can only be described as a 'shortening' of your arms. It is a combination of things I guess: more mass, stronger connective tissue and neural activation, but the result is an improvement of your 'rings game'. It is not an essential element to a ring specialist, dont get me wrong, but it can help, especialy to trainees with long arms and problematic ring work.

By the way, a similar feeling can be achieved with iron cross work, and other rings strength movements.

When I got the iron cross the first time, the feeling was similar - my arms were 'shorter', and I finaly understood it!

Of course!

With this new pair of 'shortend arms' I can do it!

Do any of you share the same feeling of 'shortening arms' due to strength work?

Ido.

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braindx

Ido,

For me the "shortening" of the arms is mostly increased stability of the shoulders. For myself and probably a lot of others, OAC have helped bring up my posterior delt strength which helps correct an anterior-posterior strength imbalance that most lifters and gymnasts have.

Of course, also your aforementioned connective tissue strengthening and neural activation is good (although not as good as the moves themselves)... probably a good intermediate step for learning how to utilize full body tension well if that was one of the problems.

Shrug.

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realworldpractice
In a gym we don't need power towers since there are plenty of high bars and probably a few parallel bars to work on. One set of PB, works for about 2-4 kids.

It's good to have a power tower in home to hang your rings from. Also, good to hang on and do leg lifts.

I'm thinking that having a band at home is about as spotter as one can get without having a workout buddy spot.

Thanks Blairbob!

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shiftedShapes
My experience with the OAC

I'm not sure the one arm chin up is the most bang for your buck exercise for a gymnast, but I feel its main benefit is in the shoulder joint and not just the elbow - flexing strength.

After achieving the one arm chin up, you start to feel a change in your shoulders that can only be described as a 'shortening' of your arms. It is a combination of things I guess: more mass, stronger connective tissue and neural activation, but the result is an improvement of your 'rings game'. It is not an essential element to a ring specialist, dont get me wrong, but it can help, especialy to trainees with long arms and problematic ring work.

By the way, a similar feeling can be achieved with iron cross work, and other rings strength movements.

When I got the iron cross the first time, the feeling was similar - my arms were 'shorter', and I finaly understood it!

Of course!

With this new pair of 'shortend arms' I can do it!

Do any of you share the same feeling of 'shortening arms' due to strength work?

Ido.

sounds like you are talking about the benefits of building and then engaging the lats. When the scapula is fully extended and you have developed lats it's like being able to extend your torso a few inches, or in the case of some BBers, a foot:

n85.jpg

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sghetti

That's gross.

I'm trying to incorporate negative one-arm chins at the end of my workouts twice a week. We'll see what happens.

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realworldpractice

The picture is scary! :D

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Guest Garre33

Does anybody have any pictures or videos showing the pulley system Coach Sommers was talking about? My pull up tower has push up handles below my feet when I am hanging from the rings... Maybe it would connect there?

Thanks,

Garrett

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