Could Someone Please Have a Look at my SSC Routine?

[skyward11]

Hi,

I started using the book about 10 weeks ago and have completed my first 8 week training cycle. The first routine looked like this:

Tuck Planche (Curved Back): Max at start of cycle: 14s -> 9 sets of 7s; Max at end of cycle: >15s

Straddle L (One Hand Center, Floor): Max at start of cycle: 12s -> 10 sets of 6s; Max at end of cycle: >15s

Manna (MSH Low PB): Max at start of cycle: 9s -> 12 sets of 5s; Max at end of cycle: >15s

Front Lever (Tuck, Flat Back): Max at start of cycle: 15s -> 8 sets of 8s; Max at end of cycle: >15s

Back Lever (Tuck, Flat Back): Max at start of cycle: 15s -> 8 sets of 8s; Max at end of cycle: >15s

Am I overtraining? I aim to do the strength training every other day, alternating with PNF stretching, with a day of rest per week (I also take adult gymnastics classes whenever possible). Usually I do the SSC routine 2-3 times a week.

I only got my rings about 5 weeks into the cycle. I was able to do a front lever before on a ledge, but not a back lever (couldn't grip around it enogh). So I only did back levers for the last three weeks of the cycle. Here's the weird thing, though: My front lever basically didn't progress at all, whereas my back lever jumped from flat back tuck to a half lever. I was pretty happy about that, but disappointed about the lack of progress on the front lever. I was able to move onto the next step for the other three moves. Here's my current routine:

Tuck Planche (Straight Back): Max at start of cycle: 9s -> 12 sets of 5s

Straddle L (PB Low): Max at start of cycle: 15s -> 7 sets of 8s

Manna (MSH Floor): Max at start of cycle: 12s -> 10 sets of 6s

Front Lever (Tuck, Flat Back): Max at start of cycle: >15s (but can't hold next step) -> 7 sets of 8s

Back Lever (Half Lever): Max at start of cycle: 13s -> 8 sets of 7s

In the case of hold times that would neatly add up to 60s I started to decrease the number of reps to a total below 60s instead of above because I felt like I was only breaking down muscle tissue with no further gain (overtraining).

I'd really appreciate it if you could let me know what you think or perhaps have any ideas why I'm not making progress on the front lever... Thanks a lot!

[Falcon]

Why are you working next progressions when your max holds are at 15 seconds? You have no bussiness with next progression until you have reached 60 seconds max hold with tuck or advanced tuck.

Also, no Lsit?

And honestly if you think that your FL will progress that fast, dude, it won't. It's same like thinking you will have straddle planche in the next cycle.

[Aaron Griffin]

Why are you working next progressions when your max holds are at 15 seconds? You have no bussiness with next progression until you have reached 60 seconds max hold with tuck or advanced tuck.

The book says 15s, and it has since been errata'd on this board, but it's not as public as it should be.

60s is the target for FSPs.

[skyward11]

Thank you phrak for responding to Falcon and letting me know about the errata. Could I ask why this was changed? I don't quite see what the benefit of being able to hold a position for 60 seconds as opposed to 15 would be. I mean, the book says that you should move on to the next progression once you can hold it for at least "3-5 seconds," I believe. Has that been changed as well? If so, for what reason? Experience? Or is there an underlying theoretical physiological reason?

Falcon's response regarding the front lever doesn't make much sense to me. If my back lever can progress that quickly, why can't the front lever? Falcon, if by comparing it to the planche you meant to say that the front lever is significantly more difficult than the back lever, you should just say so.

[Blairbob]

FL and BL are not the same element.

BL is an easier move to pull off but tends to be a bit harder on the joints. However, you can lock it off it easier than FL.

FL requires a strong anterior core and you need a pretty beastly weighted pullup or at least the ability to do one. We've conjectured maybe 3/4BW+. This starts to really be difficult when you are bigger than 5 1/2 feet and 150 pounds.

[skyward11]

FL and BL are not the same element.

BL is an easier move to pull off but tends to be a bit harder on the joints. However, you can lock it off it easier than FL.

FL requires a strong anterior core and you need a pretty beastly weighted pullup or at least the ability to do one. We've conjectured maybe 3/4BW+. This starts to really be difficult when you are bigger than 5 1/2 feet and 150 pounds.

I see, I see. Thanks for letting me know! I naively assumed that they might both be about the same. I guess the difficulty ratings in the book are relative and not absolute.

I'm 180 pounds at 6 feet... Does that mean I should give up on the front lever?

[Niklas Slotte]

I see, I see. Thanks for letting me know! I naively assumed that they might both be about the same. I guess the difficulty ratings in the book are relative and not absolute.

I'm 180 pounds at 6 feet... Does that mean I should give up on the front lever?

Yes, the difficulty rating is meant for relative comparison between progressions and not exercises. A beginning core and straight body variation have the same difficulty rating, but the beginning core variation is way easier to perform.

No, don't give up on the front lever. What Blairbob said is true, one needs to be very strong at pulling to pull off a front lever. Likewise, manna needs a "decent" amount of shoulder flexibility and most of all massive shoulder extension strength. Even though you never achieve or don't prioritize manna work, training the element will make you a little stronger and take you slowly toward the end goal. Same thing with the FL, just because the goal is far away, doesn't mean it shouldn't be trained.

At 6 feet 180 lb you are definitely not the average gymnast, but that's not an issue for FL work. I'm about your size, a little heavier, but my front lever is progressing all the time, even though I'm not actively working on it in a SSC. All the gains are coming from the occasional WOD exposure but more importantly from all the prehab and pre-requisite training. I'll be adding the FL stuff in when the times is right.

Slizzardman is also a great inspiration. He takes a "make haste slowly"-attitude and well... it seems to be working: FL, PL progressions, MPPu variations. At a "heavier" bodyweight he's doing some pretty nice stuff, isn't he?

PS. Talking about Slizzardman, I'm starting to feel like him writing these multiparagraph replies.

[skyward11]

Thank you; it's much appreciated! :-)

Any comments on the 15 vs. 60 seconds thing?

Does my routine look okay otherwise? Since it's working for me I guess it's decent, but if there's something I can do better I'd really want to know.