Jogging or sprints?

[Chris]

In order to burn fat should one do sprints or jogging sesions? Meaning should one apply anaerobic or aerobic excersices.

Here (meaning in the GymnasticBodies community) I know that sprints are preffered, but for example Eric Horst (well known climbing coach) states that one should jog (this burns fat and improves the capillary network as well) I also asked my friend who is a student of the Academy of Physical Education on the major of phisical education, what would be better, series of sprints (e.g.: 5x 200) or jogging and he said that in order to loose fat I should do aerobic stuff like jogging (20-30min+) and anaerobic excersices won't burn fat (at least not in a satysfying amount).

You can all clearly see that those two points of view are contradictory, so would somebody like to straighten out ?

I am aware of the fact that diet is also crucial but let's leave it out and focus on the anaerobic vs aerobic issue.

[Gregor]

For sprints look at the internet HIIT (high interval intense training) program.

[Scott Malin]

Charles Poliquin

"Six reasons why aerobic work is counterproductive"

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=861&Itemid=10403

Part II (methods)

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1024&Itemid=10029

[Edward Smith]

Hi Chris,

Coreathlete posted some good articles. The best fat loss quote I've heard (relating to exercise not diet) is "caring how much fat you lose when working out is like caring how much muscle you gain". It takes a 2 hour mid-intensity workout to burn off a banana smoothie*. Jogging burns more calories during the effort, but does little to boost your metabolism (where fat burning really happens) whereas anaerobic work is the opposite. Anaerobic work along with strength training gives good results. Strength training done using antagonist, full-body exercises works great for me as the aerobic workout along with tabata (8 rounds of 20 secs on 10 sec off)which gives aerobic and anaerobic increases.

*I heard this on a lifestyle show. What they deem mid-intensity may be low -intensity to you or me. But you get the point.

Hope this helps,

Ed

P.S Does anybody know the name of that article I'm talking about. It's on T-nation, it's 5 or 6 coaches sharing their truthes that can't prove scientifically but the do anicdoteadely

[Scott Malin]

I did a quick search for it

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding/the_hierarchy_of_fat_loss&cr=

[Edward Smith]

Great article! But unfortunately not the one I was talking about. But this one highlights all the points I was making (or at least trying to :wink: ), Chris I highly suggest you have a read through it.

Thanks Coreathlete,

Ed

[Bob Sanders]

High intensity activities such as sprints burns more fat after the workout while jogging at a low intensity burns while you do the work and also eats your muscles away. But high intensity is not always great. They do condition you but they are also very stressful. You wouldn't recommend this to someone who is in rehab or an elderly would you? So it all depends on the situation. If you think you can adapt high intensity do it. If not do jogging and/or build up as you go the intensity until you can sprint full speed at the track.

[Rod Abbott]

Odd question but is long distance walking (2 to 3 hours @ 3.5 mph) similar to jogging aerobically? I've added HIIT but like the walks.

[Bob Sanders]

Walking while doing HIT? I'm lost. But in all seriousness you always do walking so when doing High Intensity go INSANE! ...But dont go killing yourself out there.

[Rod Abbott]

I meant, based on Poliquin's criticism of aerobic activity, is long-distance walking counter-productive like jogging? I didn't mean walking as part of HIIT but in addition to it.

[Blairbob]

Not as counter productive. If it's good for your sense of mind, keep doing it.

[Guest Ido Portal]

Walking is not as problematic to us as jogging. Walking is fine, as we are designed to do two things basicly:

1. Very low output activities in continueas manner - walk to another village 20 Km away. (not jogg or ride a bike for hours)

2. Bouts of High output activity and rest (active or passive) which is like hunting/playing/fighting/building/destroying.

If you do both, you do what you are supposed to be doing and you basicly become a happier/healthier person.

[Chris]

Wow, I didn't expect such a huge response, anyways, thanks all for Your imput, I hope it will help all those of us who are confused about this topic, and ed, I certainly will read throught those articles when I'll have a fresh mind, now I'm wasted after work :

[Rod Abbott]

Not as counter productive. If it's good for your sense of mind, keep doing it.

Thanks

If you do both, you do what you are supposed to be doing and you basicly become a happier/healthier person.

That's the bottomline. Thanks.

[Blairbob]

hunting/playing/fighting/building/destroying...

sounds fun!

[Forest]

After having nearly year out of sports ,traveling and putting a bit of fat on, i found the best thing that dropped it was being more active during the day, getting out and moving around and also "the Seven Levels of Hell" as our fitness coach called it.

Its basically a hiit workout:

2 cones 20 yards apart.

Run between the cones as fast as you can for 1 minute.

Rest 3 minutes-seems like a long time....its not.

Repeat 7 times.

After the 4th time you get an extra 2 minutes rest HEAVEN! then 3 more cycles PUKE!

The point is to destroy yourself as quickly as possible. You must go as fast as you can for as long as you can. If you cannot keep the speed up for the full minute you are doing it right. You must try not to pace yourself.

Try to keep count of how many times you make it between the cones. If your doing it right the no. will drop, and there wont be anything you can do about it.

Its a really tough mindset to get into but its bye bye flabby bits.

[Chris]

I read through the articles and they pretty much answer my questions one last thing is how long the rests should be between those sprints [in interval training not in Tabata]? 3 minutes like Forest said? And thanks Forest for Your idea

[Bob Sanders]

After having nearly year out of sports ,traveling and putting a bit of fat on, i found the best thing that dropped it was being more active during the day, getting out and moving around and also "the Seven Levels of Hell" as our fitness coach called it.

Its basically a hiit workout:

2 cones 20 yards apart.

Run between the cones as fast as you can for 1 minute.

Rest 3 minutes-seems like a long time....its not.

Repeat 7 times.

After the 4th time you get an extra 2 minutes rest HEAVEN! then 3 more cycles PUKE!

The point is to destroy yourself as quickly as possible. You must go as fast as you can for as long as you can. If you cannot keep the speed up for the full minute you are doing it right. You must try not to pace yourself.

Try to keep count of how many times you make it between the cones. If your doing it right the no. will drop, and there wont be anything you can do about it.

Its a really tough mindset to get into but it

bye bye flabby bits.

That's a GREAT idea, Forest!

And yes Chris 3 min. at least. Unless you think you can handle lesser. If you run like crazy 3 min may seem like 1 min. But if lets say you run 400 m on a track rest for 1 min and repeat 4 to 6 times. You can adjust the resting time according to you fitness level. In times if you really work on it, the time will start to reduce.

[mydoggylives]

Its basically a hiit workout:

2 cones 20 yards apart.

Run between the cones as fast as you can for 1 minute.

Rest 3 minutes-seems like a long time....its not.

Repeat 7 times.

After the 4th time you get an extra 2 minutes rest HEAVEN! then 3 more cycles PUKE!

The point is to destroy yourself as quickly as possible. You must go as fast as you can for as long as you can.

Quick question for Forest and/or Titan...

Would this be a daily routine or a 3-day a week routine? In my head I'm alternating between "start off doing it every other day for about 2 or 3 weeks, then you can progress to daily" and "do it daily and it'll build up your conditioning and stamina as you progress".... but I wonder whether I'd be setting myself up for overtraining by doing this?

I'm 5'6" and weigh 210 lbs. Last year I managed, with diet and exercise, to go from 206 lbs. down to 185 lbs. in 3 months. This was between March and June. I slacked off around the holidays, stupidly began eating fast foods again, and haven't been exercising regularly. Having just stepped off of the scale, I realize that I'm heavier now than I was when I started. :shock: Now I have to start the process all over again.

That's ok.... I've done it once, and I can do it again.

I was doing bodyweight exercises for strength, and some mountain bike riding (30-45 min.) normally alternating every day with speed walking (4-5 mph for 30 min.) on the treadmill for my cardio (although some days I would do both... bike in the afternoon, walk in the evening).

I'm ready to get back on the horse, and I'm interested in this HIIT approach. I just don't want to do too much too soon and manage to set myself back even further at the outset. What are your opinions? Is it safe to do everyday, or should I pace myself?

Thank you for taking the time to post it, and thanks in advance for any replies!

John

[Blairbob]

beware of DelayedOnsetMuscleSoreness

I would do tabata 2 exercises alternating with HIT. 3 on, 1 off or 2 on 1 off since you're getting back into it

[Martial]

After reading a few of these articles, I'm hearing a lot of responses about sprinting being natural and akin to hunting. Just a bit ago, I came across an interesting article that makes an interesting point about human endurance in running:

Born to Run

http://discovermagazine.com/2006/may/tramps-like-us

There's also a summary of persistence hunting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting

It seems to make a few pretty convincing points about the evolutionary advantages of distance running, and that humans have a greater endurance for distance running than other animals. However in no way am I advocating this for serious gymnasts, as I tend to agree that the catabolic reactions of serious distance running can conflict with recovery and muscular maintenance. Just thought it would be interesting...

[Gregor]

It's beacuse of to low amino acid (leucin). With longer distance it's goos to use BCAA.

[Coach Sommer]

The Olympic Champions Believe Strongly in Running

The Olympic Champion Chinese Men's Gymnastics Team believes in strongly in the value of running. In addition to their normal vault sprinting work, they also run 3-5 miles two to three times a week. This is then coupled with 400m sprints. They do their 400m work at approximately 70 second splits; the average length of a floor routine.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Blairbob]

Interesting.

Running 3-5 miles doesn't take too much time nor is it too much mileage. 20-35 minutes optimally at their level, maybe 40.

[Martial]

The Olympic Champions Believe Strongly in Running

The Olympic Champion Chinese Men's Gymnastics Team believes in strongly in the value of running. In addition to their normal vault sprinting work, they also run 3-5 miles two to three times a week. This is then coupled with 400m sprints. They do their 400m work at approximately 70 second splits; the average length of a floor routine.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Well this is pretty reassuring since I've been a distance runner for a number of years. The 400m workout reminds me of 1 mile race training... and 70 second splits seems to be a very decent split in a 400m workout (70 sec for a runner).

If the distance running is done at a challenging pace (not necessarily jogging), then a 7 minute mile pace would definitely be something that will get most heart rates up and beyond 180, if it's like blairbob suggested.

I'm still a little confused on how running would be properly worked into a proper gymnastic training regimen, specifically as in the best times to run, changes in diet, and the fastest way to recover.