Started by Dillon Zrike, June 22, 2011 · 98 Replies · 165,136 Views
Bipocni said:But wouldn't I get more overhead mobilisation by retracting?
how would you have a stable platform to generate force through to re-balance? you'd need to stabilize the scapula somehow from both sides. a bit of protraction creates that tension in the entire torso, its pretty difficult to do for a while, it can be pretty tiring.
Bipocni said:But wouldn't I get more overhead mobilisation by retracting?
No. Not while you are also attempting to increase shoulder flexion.
Remember this is not olympic lifting where they are somewhat retracting with partial inlocation.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
Bipocni said:But wouldn't I get more overhead mobilisation by retracting?
You would, so it's a good idea to protract to increase the focus on shoulder flexibility. By retracting, you're essentially 'cheating' by putting less focus on shoulder extension. Retraction would be overcompensation, in short.
What is the opinion on a "kyphosis"-like rounding of the spine in planche and the leans?
It needs to be balanced with the scapula remaining depressed and a straight line from toes to hips to shoulders.
So the arch from the mid back should be removed? How much of a deal breaker is it?
You can't remove a natural (if that's what you meant) thoracic kyphosis. A straight line between hips and shoulders would pass underneath the arch.
Not a deal breaker!
Perhaps my use of the word line was confusing, there is a kyphosis.
Maybe a better way to express it is if you put a point on your axles, hips and shoulders then ideally you could draw a line though them. The over-rounding will raise the level of the hips.
Reading this topic it seems like the thoracic rounding can be corrected:
It's totally correctable, why would you think otherwise? It's a beginners technical error is all.
I can recall my first seminars with Coach Sommer, when we are all new to this, and all us newbbies did the over zealous version, it improved over time, it's very normal in the beginning and not a bad thing in the short run.
Let's not turn this into another retracted scaps in FL wormhole 
Cole Dano said:It's totally correctable, why would you think otherwise? It's a beginners technical error is all.
I can recall my first seminars with Coach Sommer, when we are all new to this, and all us newbbies did the over zealous version, it improved over time, it's very normal in the beginning and not a bad thing in the short run.
Let's not turn this into another retracted scaps in FL wormhole
I should have quoted Latestarter instead. But thank you for clearing it up.
I have a hard time finding a proper cue to protract without the rounding, any tips?
At this point, I'd recommend you post a form check video.
Alexander Egebak said:I should have quoted Latestarter instead. But thank you for clearing it up.
I have a hard time finding a proper cue to protract without the rounding, any tips?
Maybe if your protract while in an APT, and then moving only your pelvis to a PPT, if I do these I can only protract using my scaps.
I think this is a lack of depression, that's what made the difference for me.
https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/20597-splpe5-increase-lean/#entry188556
Depression and strong activation of the lats seems to flatten out my back a bit.
Alexander Egebak said:Reading this topic it seems like the thoracic rounding can be corrected:
It's my understanding from Alessandro that while a flat back planche is possible, it's an advanced technique. Beginners should focus on protraction while maintaining full depression.
A form check video would be the best option to be certain.
I am 100% certain of my form, I can do both straight and bent spine. I just have a hard time consciously engaging with a straight spine, I guess with practice comes awareness. I am using a mirror and often I can get people to form check me.
I'm never 100% sure about my form. 
Maybe all you need is to spend some time and build some more strength.
thecolin said:I'm never 100% sure about my form.
Maybe all you need is to spend some time and build some more strength.
Well, I always have a mirror next to me or a PT student I can ask to check me, and I have been on the planche leans for 4 months now, so protraction, ppt and depression are not a big deal to me.
Okay, so I have some pictures to demonstrate what I mean:
This is with very exaggerated upper spine bending:
This is with very little to no spine bending:
Can I make any adjustments to my form here?
The second picture looks good to me.
Second picture is much better !
The second picture looks a lot better - try to think of spreading your shoulder blades and feeling your traps working and firing as well. From the picture I'm not sure if you are activating your lats, but try to do that too by depressing the scapula.
To anyone reading this, just because your thoracic spine is in kyphosis, doesn't mean you have more protraction, it just looks like that. Read this analysis: http://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/comments/37mrcv/planche_leans_a_picture_analysis_of_proper_and/
Thank you guys.
I posted mainly to illustrate the problems of bending the upper spine vs not bending it. I see a great deal of people learning protraction while bending their upper spine which in my opinion is a problem if you want a good full planche in the future.
Euan, that reddit topic was the reason I chose to post about this here since I could not find information elsewhere.
If we take that discussion here, one's protraction strength will seemingly be limited by bending the spine thus creating a less advantageous position.
It took me 2 training sessions to learn to completely eliminate the bending, I still have trouble being completely confident after about 3 weeks (9 training sessions). Initially, my leans felt weaker, but now my leans feel stronger. It is probably due to me not having spend much time in the kyphosis-leans and due to not having a very exaggerated rounding. I would imagine it would take much longer to correct and rebuild strength if you have been rounding your spine for a longer time.
I don't know to what degree it translates to learning planche, but that close to 90 degree bend in the spine is certainly not something I see in people with full planche. And in my experience, it makes me feel far less stable.
I think perhaps some people just hear that they should round they try to round as much as possible. But I think it's just an over compensation and I can't imagine any functional advantage to that kind of position in terms of transitioning to full planche.
As I said previously, I think it can also indicate a lack of sufficient depression.
thecolin said:I don't know to what degree it translates to learning planche, but that close to 90 degree bend in the spine is certainly not something I see in people with full planche. And in my experience, it makes me feel far less stable.
I think perhaps some people just hear that they should round they try to round as much as possible. But I think it's just an over compensation and I can't imagine any functional advantage to that kind of position in terms of transitioning to full planche.
As I said previously, I think it can also indicate a lack of sufficient depression.
This.Planche leans are a step along the way. This thread was originally meant to correct a widespread misconception pre-Foundation release, in which people were training planche progressions more as no-leg planks than gymnastics 'scales,' pressing up rather than leaning as in the OP. Once your planche lean is solid, it is time to increase the load. That simple. No more hinge row threads please!
