Nicholas Sortino Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I'm creating this thread as a place to talk about all fermented dairy, and really any fermented foods you may like.I have just started growing my own goat kefir, and by next week intend to make my own yogurts and Kombacha as well. At some point I plan to venture into cheese (only if I get raw milk) and sourdough (I found an interesting recipe for gluten-free sprouted brown rice sourdough. I may make Natto and/or miso once, but I don't know that they do anything to reduce to phytoestrogens rampant in soy. I will have to research that.So if anyone else makes their own fermented foods, whatever they may be, or is interested in it, this is the place to post. Pictures are awesome, as are recipes if you decide to go beyond the basics. Hopefully we can spread some knowledge about the deliciousness and health benefits of these. Also, if you are on a budget but want this kinda stuff, beyond the start up cost it is definitely cheaper than buying it at the store. And once I get my production rolling, I'll give away any extra Kefir grains or Kombacha Scoby to anyone in the general area to get you started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvaro Antolinez Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Where did you find the recipes? I got a very good book on traditional bread making , and I´ve done very nice breads sometimes (yea I know ...grains...) but keffir, do you know a good recipe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Sortino Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Kefir is incredibly easy to make. Here is a page with pretty good instructions. All it takes is some milk, grains or starter and 24hrs in room temperature room out of the sunlight.I know she says the "grains" are better, but if all you can get is starter, it works just fine, it just doesn't allow for unlimited reproduction like the "grains" do. Also, note that kefir grains are not grains at all, but active cultures that are call grains because of they way the look. Granules would be a more appropriate term I believe...My first batch is goes amazingly with berries. In fact I ate berries in Kefir throughout my workout today, lol. It was quite refreshing, and I didn't feel the need to drink water at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvaro Antolinez Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 The link is broken.. thank you! I´ll try it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fryk Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I do not think that the isoflavones in soy can be removed all together with fermentation. Whereas the other unwanted constituents (phytic acid, lectins etc.) should be reduced to a larger degree. However, I have heard that soy traditionally is fermented for quite some time, so that might limit its usefulness in a normal kitchen setting. Also what is the big appeal with soy?About the dairy. I would like to use raw milk also, but I have not been able to find any. Nor have I found goats milk. That limits it to pasteurized cows milk. I reckon that fermenting the milk should be able to restore some of the properties lost with pasteurisation. Though I have not seen any concrete evidence as to the extent as to which fermentation can mitigate the evils of pasteurisation. Sources? I have had a few tries with doing some fermented dairy recently. Though I cannot say it has been overly successful. I have been using whole milk as a base plus some heavy whipping cream, and store bought fermented dairy as a starter culture. Heating the milk (and cream) to around 40 degrees Celsius, mixing it with the starter culture. Putting it in a glass mason jar. Leaving it in a isolated box with a 75W bulb for approx 10-12 hours, my guestimate is that the temperature ends up somewhere around 35-45 degrees. Need a good thermometer. Batch no. 1, did ferment quite well after which I drained of the liquid using a cheese cloth (whey), resulting in a more solid yogurt-esque thing. Batch no 2, also seemed to ferment ok. Though I did not drain it, so it is more runny. Can kefir grains be used for an unlimited time? They are quite expensive so they need to yield a few batches of kefir in order to be economical. Questions:- How to make a yogurt less runny and more "greek"?- How much can the lactose content of the milk be reduced through fermentation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Sortino Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 Kefir Grains can be used for an unlimited amount of time, as long you do not let them sit for two long in between batches. Since Kefir takes about 12-24hrs to make, you could easily make 1-2cups a day every day forever and never run out.What kind of product are you making, since you heating it? Different yogurts require different cultures and some of them require heating (I know greek is 110F) while others are done at room temperature. Kefir is also done room temperature, so if you are heating that, it may be why it doesn't work too well.If you are using store bought products as your starter, which is a viable method, I would look for the highest quality least processed stuff you can find. Most store bought yogurt can hardly be called yogurt...This is a great website for getting into fermented food products. I ordered my yougurt and kefir cultures from here, and there is some decent information on the website.I don't know where you live, but a lot of states have unfortunately made raw milk sales illegal. The only way to get it there is a cowshare or goat share program. Surprisingly walmart sells a brand of goat milk, but it is UHT pasteurized. I would suggest grassfed milk if you can get it, but whatever type of milk you get, try to stay away from UHT pasteurized milk and get the stuff that is HTST or VAT pasteurized since you can't find it raw. Organic Valley is the best mass marketed store brand I have found if you can't find real grass-fed milk. From what I can discern, they do the least feedlot style penning of their dairy cattle and actually give them access to some pasture.As to how much Lactose can be reduced, I am not entirely sure. Although I believe the longer you let it ferment, the better in that aspect, either by the cultures metabolizing the lactose, the creation of lactase. But it will also gets more and more sour... You just have to find the right amount of time for your sense of taste and health.Finally the soy, no appeal there really. I just love japanese food really, and a good miso soup is always a nice touch. Especially with a few mushrooms in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fryk Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I am in Denmark. I think there it is law that milk has to be pasteurised, and even if it isn't so I have still not been able to find any raw. The only raw milk products I have found is various cheeses. The best quality that is available to me is organic, non-homogenised. I do think the cows are on grass this time of year. The milk is not UHT, luckily.The best I could find was a fermented dairy called ymer, that is not yogurt, pers e but a special type of fermented dairy from Denmark. I just figured that the cultures would multiply, though I would not techically get yogurt. As you point out there is surely some temperature concerns with different types of bacteria, so a real yogurt culture might turn out differently. So I might want to look into some experimentation with that variable. 1-2 cups of kefir a day, does not sound like a lot to me, I like to make bigger batches. Would it be possible to make 1-2litres a pop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Sortino Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 At first, probably not, but the cultures grow as you make more, so eventually you could easily be making that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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