blur-minded start of gymnastics strength

I say this because when you are a beginner you don´t know how to manage a steady state, or when to switch reps, sets , tempo or volume in a program, and this is paramount. My first year was almost lost because I didn´t know how to manage that points, I worked too close to my maximum 1rm also trying exercises too difficult for me (like multi plane as BOB said) and therefore I could´t get enough volume for fast gains.

If you are forced to downgrade the pulling or pressing exercises to be able to get to 20 or more reps that are necessary in some WODs you are making faster improvements than if you keep trying your 2 or 3 pull ups by work out.

(viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6156#p54784)

Hello, everybody.

Unfortunately, this is so true.

I'm new to gymnastics strength, having just almost a week of some training, added (that is not merged yet in) to my regular calisthenics workout. For a beginner with no guidance, it is actually more difficult to sketch a good weekly workout than the workout itself. I've trained with weighted dips, weighted pull-ups and push-ups and, but I am sure that my current workout isn't getting the most out of me.

My regular calisthenics workout was pull-ups (15 sets x 10 reps, mostly weighted), dips (15 sets x 10 reps, mostly weighted) and pull-ups (8 sets x 25 reps regular or 10 sets x 15 reps diamond FX or 10 sets x 15 reps on push handles with grip as down to the waist as possible), two times a week for every exercise. Eventually I did some more with triceps extensions using bodyweight and very rare some ridiculous low-reps for core which a pregnant woman can do without any problem, so when I tried the L-sit I couldn't hold it for even a second…

However, after I decided to do gymnastics strength and seeing that I cannot do any FL, BL, HeSPU, planche (which are basic), not even the preparatory exercices for these, I said to myself that I must go and master the basics.

So at this time I am working on and improved just after a few days on the following:

– tuck FL (3 x 30s);

– skin the cats (3 x 8 reps);

– plank holds (1 min);

– reverse plank holds (1 min);

– hollow holds (1 min);

– arch holds (1 min);

– PB dip hold (2 x 1 min);

– Pull-up bar hold with knees at 90 degrees (2 x 1 min);

– candlesticks;

– vertical leg raises (3 x 8 reps with a little bit of swinging but straight elbows and back);

– L-sit on push-up handles (3 x 20 s)

– I think I can make some tuck pull-ups on bar, but haven't tried yet.

I've had to test myself with various new exercices, still my mind is blurred with regards to how should I continue. Thing is I did (almost) all that gymnastics workout I mentioned above right after the regular calisthenics workout. I've got a feeling that working gymnastics after regular calisthenics is a stupid idea, isn't it?

If there's any merciful soul who could sketch or point me to a weekly workout for a poor beginner like me, I would pray to God for his strength up to XR levels, health and well-being for a month or even more. I can figure out how to make the workout more difficult (or easier) for every single exercise, but I'm not able to write a Monday to Friday (Saturday) workout which to follow regularly, I just can't split all these exercices / days / sets / reps (minutes). That is because there's a huge difference between the regular calisthenics and gymnastic strength and I am not even training with regular exercices, but I have to train with preparatory workouts for the exercices, which is a story for itself...

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thank you very, very much even for taking your time with reading this, and, by the way, gb.com it's a fantastic forum.

Have fun.

I thought about the right workout all day long and I made myself a five days (M-F) routine. Otherwise I couldn't sleep tonight.

I am posting it here and would like to hear any suggestions / observations.

Everything can be adjusted, I just put in the numbers which I think I can do, I am going to find out soon.

I am afraid of not putting too much into this workout (which can be solved easily), as well as I am afraid of missing something important. For instance, I didn't put any Planche Progression. Is it worth working on the planche preps before BL and FL?

Since I don't have XR, I have to use what I have... a floor, PB and the pull-ups bar.

Note (June 17th): Just updated the routine. I had to do some "calibrations" after today's workout.

Looks decent.

I would recommend that most beginners start off by incorporating the use of an integrated workout using a SteadyStateCycle for FSP followed by FBE seperately. This requires that they test the various FSP and FBE before hand for a week to develop their 8-12 week cycle.

Blairbob said:

Looks decent.

I would recommend that most beginners start off by incorporating the use of an integrated workout using a SteadyStateCycle for FSP followed by FBE seperately. This requires that they test the various FSP and FBE before hand for a week to develop their 8-12 week cycle.

Hello.

Thank you for your advice, I'll keep that in mind. At this moment I'm testing all exercices and myself. Have to see how the body responds to circuit workout, loads, I am not even sure about the 5 days routine. I'll give myself some time and try some variations, including SSCs for FSPs and FBEs.

I think I'll open a training log and keep posting.

Have fun.

Please don´t take my word on this as I am far weaker than you are( 15 sets of 10 pull ups is far far from my capabilities...) and one with less knowledge here . But I think your numbers are a bit off(on the easy side) at least regarding handstands, you should look at the WOD if not for following them (which I sincerely recommend!) to see how coach manages volume regarding handstand days, pulling days , pushing days. In handstand days the normal is something like 10 min handstands (minimum rest possible), you are like 5x 10 sec, that is almost nothing if you want to improve. Maybe as skill is ok but for strengthening your handstand you should push it harder. The other numbers are very similar on volume (unless you are adding weight). The warm up seems ok.

Take a look at the WODs and see how they overcharge de different muscular groups ( strange enough usually you don´t get sore from them), remember than you should be able to finish de correct number of repetitions if not you should downgrade your exercise to get it.

omegant said:

Please don´t take my word on this as I am far weaker than you are( 15 sets of 10 pull ups is far far from my capabilities...) and one with less knowledge here . But I think your numbers are a bit off(on the easy side) at least regarding handstands, you should look at the WOD if not for following them (which I sincerely recommend!) to see how coach manages volume regarding handstand days, pulling days , pushing days. In handstand days the normal is something like 10 min handstands (minimum rest possible), you are like 5x 10 sec, that is almost nothing if you want to improve. Maybe as skill is ok but for strengthening your handstand you should push it harder. The other numbers are very similar on volume (unless you are adding weight). The warm up seems ok.

Take a look at the WODs and see how they overcharge de different muscular groups ( strange enough usually you don´t get sore from them), remember than you should be able to finish de correct number of repetitions if not you should downgrade your exercise to get it.

Hello!

Thanks a lot for your thoughts.

Indeed, I know that some numbers are (very) low, especially on warm-up (which I am going to increase as of Monday) and handstand, that's because I am not used to this type of circuit training and it will take one or two weeks (hopefully not more) until I find the full motion range of the workout.

I made a mistake on Friday's workout which I only realised after midnight , that I didn't allow myself enough rest time between exercices and (let's say) giant sets, especially between giant sets: just 1 min. Also, no rest time after the warm up... That's too little for my conditioning level right now, setting a 3 min rest between giant sets will allow me to add more seconds.

Alternating pushing and pulling on different days is also in my attention, but I really want to test it in my training, just want to see how I am doing when doing both on the same day vs. different days.

Regular pushing and pulling exercices (reverse push-ups, push-ups, dips, pull-ups) will be weighted or made difficult by decreasing leverage. I've trained the muscles for years and I know how to progress with them, but I didn't train the tendons and ligaments... So, there'll be a little more work on the FSPs first, yet there should be a balance between FSPs and FSEs.

I didn't study the WODs, but I'll take a more serious look at them.

Deodatus, you are very strong! Welcome to the forum

Patrick Smith said:

Deodatus, you are very strong! Welcome to the forum

Hello and thank you for the nice welcome, it's great to be here.

I am strong compared to what I was when I first stepped into a gym, many years ago. I weighted 50 kg at 178 cm (that is being almost invisible on the human eye radar from the profile lookup). After I did the first 10 squats ever, they had to carry me out on their hands, put me into a car and deliver me home, directly into bed. I am a little bit exagerating, but it's not far from the truth.

Anyway, I'm new here and I'm light years behind any of the beginners on GB forum, but I love challenges and I look forward to train and share that experience with you guys.

Strength and honour.

deodatus said:

Strength and honour.

Indeed! Strength and honour 8)

Welcome to the forum! You'll make good progress as long as you remember that your connective tissues can not get strong as quickly as your muscles. Like me you are coming here fairly strong, so I offer the following advice: Follow the FSP pre-requisites, and use SSC for FSP holds. Do not try to use FSP as your strength work, save that for FBE and don't move too far ahead too quickly. When you realize you are able to move forward a step with FBE let those gains consolidate for a month (do a 4 week SSC) just to make sure you are fully adapted to avoid possible injuries. You won't know you moved too quickly for up to 3 months sometimes, so taking it a bit slower really does lead to much better long term gains.

Also, I would not give up your weighted pull ups or dips. In my opinion they are important. Many have found them to be helpful in building the raw strength necessary for front levers and to some extent planche. Just don't think that they will get you there without the specific GB work!

Have you considered following the WODs? You are definitely strong enough, though you may need to take the dynamic (plyo) stuff more slowly if you haven't done much of that.

slizzardman said:

Welcome to the forum! (...)

Hello!

Thanks a lot for your welcome and the excellent advices.

I realized that connective tissues need time to strengthen as I woke up this morning and felt a tension in my left elbow, which is related only to GB exercices, because I've never encountered it before with my regular training. Last week I put a lot of pressure on my joints with all the new exercices, so I was just thinking that I have to be more careful.

Another thing that you pointed out well was that, yes, I was going to use FSP holds as a strength work at first. If I understand correctly, what you are saying is: do your regular FSP using SSC, without exaggerating with it, and also do SSC for FBEs without pushing too much. At the end of a 4 week cycle, test the new max. and move a little bit forward. Is that correct?

The third thing you were right about is that I was about to give up to weighted pull ups and dips (not at all, but with less focus on them) and shifting toward holds (as I said, I wanted to use them as a strength exercise). Yes, I know that pull-ups and dips are not enough for planche or FL, tested it already.

Also, I read in another post that you recommend the FSPs to be workout out at about 50% of the max hold time. After a cycle, test the new maximum and eventually follow the new 50% hold time, is it right?

Regarding the WOD, I am not following them because of multiple reasons:

Most important, I am not able to translate them yet. For example, how would you make this understandable to me:

"XR L-sit Press Shoulder Stand"?

I can do 3 x 20 s L-sit on push-ups handles, but how can I rotate? I am not able to rotate into a press shoulder stand…

Or "Crank - Half": I am not able to do a FL, do I have to work a static L-sit on pull-up bar or just take the first variation (easiest level) I can do for planche (that is a Body Lever, to some extent, that is number of reps) and work it out?

"Pullovers": just impossible to work these at my gym, they don't have a simple (50-100$ worth) bar, they paid thousands and got some useless machine (like this one: http://www.completefitness.eu/media/cat ... achine.jpg).

So I would have to chunk and change the WODs and I am not that good.

I don't have XRs. I can buy a pair, but I don't have place to hang them, so the only tools I have for now is a pair of push-ups handles, a floor, a dip bar (like this one: http://www.keep-in-health.com/img/artic ... st_dip.jpg) and a pull-up bar at the gym (with a low ceiling), I almost touch the floor with my feet.

So I thought this wasn't the right time for me to approach WODs, there are too many things pulling me back from working them out. But I heard they are great, so I'd love to try them someday.

deodatus said:

I don't have XRs. I can buy a pair, but I don't have place to hang them, so the only tools I have for now is a pair of push-ups handles, a floor, a dip bar (like this one: http://www.keep-in-health.com/img/artic ... st_dip.jpg) and a pull-up bar at the gym (with a low ceiling), I almost touch the floor with my feet.

I actually made my own rings with wood, but they're not perfect, and their use is limited for a number of the finer ring techniques; however, they work well for other things.

What I did was take four pieces of 3/4 or 1" thick plywood (the really tough and heavy kind) that were 1' wide and 1' long. Four little squares. Then I used a marker to mark a circle that touched the edge at the 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock positions. Then I cut the squares with a jig saw. Using the marker, I drew another circle inside the first that was about 1.5" smaller. I then drilled a hole (more than 1/2" wide if you have a big enough drill bit, so you can fit the jig saw blade in) in the center of each circle, fit the jigsaw blade in, and cut out the inside circle, leaving four rings, 1.5" in diameter for the handle, and 1' in diameter for the circle. I then stacked one ring upon one another (two pairs of two on top of each other), and packed a bunch of different angled screws into them to attach them together. The screws were positioned at many different angles to have as much strength and resistance as possible. After a bit of sanding for the edges, I had my rings!

If you make them like this it would probably be wise to rotate the pieces that are placed on top of one another so that the grains are going in different directions. That would reduce the chance of them splitting.

These rings are safe enough for quite a few of the ring series and that sort of thing, but there are some things I wouldn't trust them with! Ring handstands or shoulder stands would be two of those!

Fair enough. You can always make substitutions in the WODs to accomodate limited equipment, but there is definitely a short learning curve that you have to go through!

You've got it right for the FSP: take a max hold and your work sets are 50% of that. I don't recommend doing more than 4 work sets, because 6 sets of 10s will wreck you where 3 or 4 sets will be good work but not too much. Remember that most adults are a lot heavier than the kids in gymnastics competitions and that translates to a higher intensity for us in any given position, which means we have to do a little less volume to maintain a 3-4 days per week frequency without burning out. Your times will still improve very nicely.

Pretty soon you'll be doing your SSC with 15s for 4 sets and then 20s for 3 sets, and then 30s for 2 sets (this is an important step that everyone probably skips). THEN you start moving on to the next progression!

You CAN do SSC with FBE but most don't require that. I would recommend SSC for russian dips, false grip pull ups, muscle up transition work (includes the previous two as well as actual full transitions and full muscle ups when you get there), korean dips, NLC, and front pulls. If you notice, those are all lower leverage exercises. The lower the leverage the harder on the joints the exercise will be, and in my opinion the lower the leverage gets the better an SSC will work because they are designed around connective tissue adaptation times.

Patrick Smith said:

I actually made my own rings with wood, but they're not perfect, and their use is limited for a number of the finer ring techniques; however, they work well for other things.

Thanks!

I would rather buy a pair, I'm not too skilled at assembling anything by myself, but anyway I don't have any place to hang the rings. And there are enough challenges on floor and bars that I don't want to miss.

slizzardman said:

Pretty soon you'll be doing your SSC with 15s for 4 sets and then 20s for 3 sets, and then 30s for 2 sets (this is an important step that everyone probably skips). THEN you start moving on to the next progression!

You rock, man. Thanks a lot! I'll take your advices and do a slower start. Better an easier daily workout at start than a few months injury holiday, looking at others how they practice.

I'll open up a personal log and post the workout and comments after every week of training.

I meant to comment on your signature: Only perfect practice makes perfect. Imperfect practice makes you very good at being imperfect. Only accept the very best in your training. If you lose position in a FSP you are either holding too long or working a position that you aren't strong enough for.

Yes, it''s true, but that applies to virtually everything, not only gymnastics. I thought about it with regards to my signature, but I didn't dare to change B.L.'s words, people know the quote as it is.

Lol, I know. It's a bit of a stretch to mess with The Man.