Looking for beginning advice

[whiteshift]

Hi,

I suppose I should write a small intro, since it's my first post here (hey, it's even my first day here). I'm a 20 year old student, and I've been lifting weights for a while to complement my martial art training. Around two months ago I stopped lifting, mostly because of a wrist injury, and switched completely to bodyweight, and I must say I'm glad I did it. Not only is my wrist healed, but it's even stronger than before.

The thing is, I found this website after being mentioned in a book I have, and I'm really impressed. I "researched" a bit (that is, I read the forums all day), and I more or less understand how I should organize a program. I found answers to most of my questions, but I still have some doubts...

First of all, I can hold most of the six basic positions for around 30s, except the back lever tuck and the PB bent leg straddle, and I didn't try the bent leg middle split hold.

For now I guess the best is to take it very lightly for a few weeks, and focus on the basics. I can't hold a german hang for more than 30s, so I should improve that before the back lever tucks, right?

Second, and most important of all I believe... Right now, I'm following a M - W - F routine, it looks like this

Mon: Push ups - Core

Wed: Pull ups - Squats

Fri: Headstands - Bridges

And I don't really know how I could include the six holds onto this program, and whether I should add more pushing/pulling exercises. Is it okay to train more than one hold the same day? For example...

M - L-sit, L-straddle

W - German hang, Back lever

Th - Manna

F - Planche, Front lever

Of course, I'm taking about the easiest steps.

Can I do something like this, or not? And should I add other exercises?

I'm sorry if I'm asking for too much, I don't have the book (yet), and maybe it answers these questions, but I would like to start as soon as possible. Like I said, I actually found answers to most of my questions, such as warming up, intensity (I would be following the steady state program, if i got that right), wrist strengthening, progressions, etc, but little to none regarding periodization. I would really appreciate any help.

[Joshua Naterman]

The book will definitely be a big, big help in your quest for bodyweight strength.

As far as the FSP go, they tend to be used as something of a "warm up" and not really for direct strength training, at least until you're in the final two progressions. Coach's guys tend to do them at the beginning of the training session, and that works well for many of us as well. If you don't have the time, do them whenever you DO have the time! Doesn't have to all be at once. Just get the work in 3-4 days per week!

If you search for FSP pre-requisites you'll find a list of the publicly known parts of the pre-requisites for all the holds. I suggest you check them out, as you may discover you have weak spots that will interfere with development later on if you don't fix them now and stay on them!

Outside of that, for the actual FSP you want to be doing 50% of your max hold time. 15s holds for everything you can do PERFECTLY for 30s. 3-4 sets or 60s total, whichever is less, for each hold done 3-4x per week works very very well. Perfect position is important. Every 8-12 weeks you want to do a max hold to see what your increases are.

There is an awful lot more to know, but that's all in the book.

[whiteshift]

Thanks, that really helped. I'll just focus on the FSP and the pre-requisites for now, and I'll read more about FBEs until I get the book.

[swarovski]

welcome to GB,

sorry for the copy&paste but I wrote a getting started template not too long ago, hope it will help you.

btw most of this come from reading the forum and the experience gained at the gym class as an adult newcomer, as isn't covered in the book.

Edit postReport this postReply with quote Re: Still need help

by swarovski on Thu May 12, 2011 8:31 am

here's the most basic gymnastic bodies workout in my opinion.

- mobility (shoulder bands, hips extensions, wrist pushups, etc)

- static hold:

60 sec plank

60 sec reverse plank

60 sec arch hold

60 sec hollow hold

60 sec support hold

60 sec dead hang

60 sec handstand

60 sec inverted hang

60 sec L-sit tuck

- FBE

push ups - rows (horizontal)

dips - pullups (vertical)

handstand pushups - ring curl (inverted)

- core (HLL, v-ups)

- legs (deck squats, sumo squats)

notes:

static hold have to be for an aggregate of 60sec, divide 60sec by 50% of your max hold to find the set/reps for every static. es l-sit max hold 15 sec => 10 series of 6 sec hold time. rest 30sec.

FBE, find the variation that allows you to complete at least 3 good reps in control, it means that your max for the given variation should be 5. start with 3*3 and if you look for some mass increase as well, work your way to 5*5.

You should be able to complete easy sets on ring push ups and rows before starting to implement vertical plane, inverted plane comes after you're in control of at least regular dips and pullups. Once you're strong enough to work more than one plane, start aternating planes in workouts.

core must be done with at least 5*5

I believe legs should be done with 3*15 at the beginning. Sumo squats, with correct form and all the way down (hamstrings in full contact with calves)

alternate HLL-Vups and deck squats-sumo squats if doing both at every workout is too much.

2 workout a week for 8-12 weeks. Don't think to strength train 4 times a week for at least 3 months, then add 1 and after 6 months you can add the fourth. Every workout should be done in 1-1.5 hrs. If you're stiff like most adults, you should do supplementary mobility WOD.

[whiteshift]

Thanks. Right now, I can't really hold the L-sit tuck for longer than 45s, so I'm planning on taking it lightly for the first 6-8 weeks (12 weeks seems a bit like overkill, I don't think I'm in such a bad shape... but time will tell I guess). Getting the easiest steps of the FSP up to 60s and focusing on form, making sure I got all the prerequisites, and waiting until I actually get the book.

What I am a little confused about are the FBE and FSP. Can I work on my holds 3-4 times per week like slizzardman mentions, while training FBEs twice a week? For example

Mon - FSP + FBE

Wed - FSP (+ a watered down WOD, maybe?)

Fri - FSP + FBE

The WU for all those sessions would be the same, minus the l-sit tuck that I would work along the other FSPs.

Would something like this be okay?

Sorry if I'm asking too many questions, there are a lot of things that you probably take for granted that I don't really know... Which is another reason that I want to take it real easy the first weeks, I don't want an injury from rushing through things.

edit: I just realized that the first WODs (from year 08) are concerned solely with developing base strength. I can just follow those workouts, right? Just adding proper WU and mobility work, stretching once a week, and adjusting intensity to follow a steady state program.

[swarovski]

the list of static I gave you is a very basic one, straddle support, middle split hold, levers, planche, etc. are all a step beyond, even at the easiest progression. You can consider holds in that list as both warmup and main workout depending on how hard they are for you. If the list is too long, split in half and alternate.

I've studied WOD but I haven't tried them personally, so from what other members says it's better to use the new wod template which has been used in the past 1.5 year. The pattern repeat itself every 18 wod.

at the bottom of the first page of my log you'll find an image that may help you in putting FSP and FBE together.

good luck.

[whiteshift]

Thanks a lot. I think that thread is just what I needed. I'll make some changes to that template, but it's pretty much what I wanted. I'll probably keep adjusting it as I learn more, but that's a thousand times better than paralysis by analysis.

[Gerald Mangona]

(12 weeks seems a bit like overkill, I don't think I'm in such a bad shape... but time will tell I guess).

You're probably in great shape. Your tendons and ligaments? Questionable. Make it 12 weeks, or you can join the most infamous Gymanstics Club on the forum...

You can always shorten the next cycle. Trust me, or poll any member who's been here more than 12 weeks.

JM

[Joshua Naterman]

The original WODs are a very incomplete version. As time has passed and seminars have passed, Coach has started putting a more complete WOD out there. At first he was concerned about people not being physically ready for the work and also the lack of supporting documentation (the other books). As the seminars have gone by and people have shown themselves to be getting stronger, as pressure mounted on the forum to have more of the dynamic strength work out there and Coach saw that there were a number of people capable of handling it, and as Coach's own experiences lead him to occasionally change what he does when he finds something that works better, the WODs have changed form.

You should follow the most recent WODs possible if you want the best experience, and just tone them way down if you need to. You may even want to skip dynamic WODs altogether and replace them with strength work for the same muscle groups if you feel you are not up to the task, at least for a while until you build the base strength to make yourself comfortable with the demands of dynamic WOD days like Wheels, clapping push ups, Senders, etc.

[thematrixiam]

for the FSP how many are done in a given day? All of them? Only one?

From the list that was posted would that be done M-F? Or would it be broken up into body parts? Upper, core, legs?Push,pull, core, legs?

60 sec plank

60 sec reverse plank

60 sec arch hold

60 sec hollow hold

60 sec support hold

60 sec dead hang

60 sec handstand

60 sec inverted hang

60 sec L-sit tuck

these are treated as a warm up to the regular work out? correct? So I could still do what ever routine I am comfortable with?

Could I do something like

10-20mins................... joint mobility

10 mins...................... Prehab (given joint)

(Not sure on the time)..... Static Hold (not sure how to break those up in the week)

40 - 60+ mins............... Weight lifting (may possibly do Ido Portal's routine for this)

30 - 60mins................. Cardio (either taebo or P90. Possibly swimming when I move back to the river)

5 -10 mins................... Cardio Stadic holds - do a variation of the static hold in short bursts and contractions.

Total 135 - 240+mins Mon Tues Weds Thurs Fri (and knowing me probably Sat) Sunday rest

[Joshua Naterman]

You'd want to be doing the statics all in one block, for 50% of your max hold time per SSC, 3-4 days per week.

[thematrixiam]

You'd want to be doing the statics all in one block, for 50% of your max hold time per SSC, 3-4 days per week.

K.. so something like

10-20mins................... joint mobility...............Daily

10 mins...................... Prehab...................... Week 1 Tues Wrist, Thurs Elbows, Sat Shoulders

10 mins...................... Prehab...................... Week 2 Mon Back, Weds Wrist, Fri Elbows, Sun Shoulders

10 mins...................... Static holds................ Week 1 Mon Weds Fri Sun

10 mins...................... Static Holds................Week 2 Tues Thurs Sat

40 - 60+ mins............... Weight lifting ............. Mon to Sat

...............................(may possibly do Ido Portal's routine for this)^^^

30 - 60mins................. Cardio.......................Mon to Sat

...............................(either taebo or P90. Possibly swimming when I move back to the river)

5 -10 mins................... Cardio Stadic holds........Mon to Sat

................................(do a variation of the static hold in short bursts and contractions)

[Joshua Naterman]

You could definitely do that. That's a lot of lifting but if you can do it and you like that then go for it!

[thematrixiam]

Well if I do Ido Portals routine it's all body work. I've been doing it for the last two days, I am a little stiff. I don't think it will work out all the body parts I want though.

I may switch to a simple bi,pec, tri,shoulder,upperback, lower back & legs routine. Until I get up some strength then switch to a full body workout twice a week.

edit.

I need to get a feel for how Ido Portal's stuff work's out my body. I was thinking since it works the body as a whole and builds better flexibility and balance that it would be a good combination to go with the static holds. So far its been basically all shoulder and trap work. I'll see how I feel tomorrow and I'll get a better idea of what works and what doesn't. I may try inventing my own style of poses similar to what he uses that will work out the areas of my body that I want better.

[Joshua Naterman]

Could you pm me the links? I don't know much about what he likes to do beyond capoeira.

[D Nowell]

Could you pm me the links? I don't know much about what he likes to do beyond capoeira.

It's the same blog and video workouts you have referenced in many of your posts since your time on this forum.

To the original poster, there is a lot more there on that old blog than just trap and shoulder stuff, starting around July of '09. If this type of body flow work interests you, you should really look through all the old postings and take in all that you can in case it ever gets taken down - many gems to pick up. As far as putting it into what you are currently doing, quoted directly from the blog:

Ido Portal -

Basicly, practice Floreio as frequently as you can, but make sure it doesnt cut too much into your recuperation. Above all, this is fun and art and should be aproached that way.

Ido Portal -

On days that your are doing the WOD you can either use easy variations of Floreio work as your Metcon at the end of the more strength oriented WODs or as a seperate entity.

[thematrixiam]

what is a dead hang static hold?

is it a ddead hang muscle up held at the 90degree position?

[swarovski]

@thematrixiam

just hanging with arms FULLY extended and shoulder relaxed, your head should sink into your shoulders. Actually is the bottom position of pullups. From a high bar overgrip is the easiest, undergrip (palms facing you) is the hardest if you keep arms fully extended and relaxed, the rest of your body must be held straight, better if your legs are together and pointing downs.