Sternford Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Odd, I was just thinking about the physics of front levers when this was posted. There's so many variables and my physics classes never really got much into torque though. I'd like to see a force-body diagram of it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael David Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Mikael-------How long ago did you start bodyweight training? What was your starting bench??I have trained for a year or more...ah i forgot the second question... i think my starting bench was 66lbs and i should weight 99lbs hahaha was the first and last time I walked into a gym! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cole Dano Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 The physics of this is very complicated, due to the linear up and down movement while holding the lever. I don't know if you can really express it as an equivalence to bench press. Is not the same thing. Coach is talking in terms of transferability. Someone who can do a PL Push Up will most likely be able to do a 2x BW BP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 The physics of this is very complicated, due to the linear up and down movement while holding the lever. I don't know if you can really express it as an equivalence to bench press. Is not the same thing. Coach is talking in terms of transferability. Someone who can do a PL Push Up will most likely be able to do a 2x BW BP.Not even close in my case :wink: I think you can not compare it just like inverted bench press, because in bench is the most important part pectoralis and in planche is deltoid. I have very strong frond delts but my pecs lacks behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Interesting. Is that including planche push ups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 yes, if you mean on the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Do you feel chest is much more active when doing planche push ups on rings than floor? I would assume so but I don't really know. It feels like it to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Don't know, I'm still not at full training on rings to test it. But I fell lack of shoulders stabilization to hold a good solid planche on rings and lack of planche training (I never do it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Interesting. Sorry about all the questions, I am incurably curious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Maybe more work on unstable surfaces like working on physiotherapeutic balls may help to get planche on rings. lately I have good results in maltese and minor on planche training (hold it on rings , stradle just for fun, never done it before and practictly no training of it).Maybe it's not so much strength related as once coach mentioned "for some reason some can't hold planche on rings" but more shoulder stabilization and working on those minor muscles to work in correct order and simultansly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seiji Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Thinking of planches and physics... Has anyone ever done the math to figure out how much force is going against the anterior deltoid in a full planche? I understand it changes depending on the arm length, body length, weight, etc, but it would be awesome to know. Then you could just set an average, you could figure out how strong you really are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 That would be virtually impossible with math alone, I mean you're talking about a huge amount of calculation.What you CAN do pretty easily is mark center of mass, point of ground contact, measure the arm angle, and then do simple angular math( basically body weight times the sine or cosine, I can't remember which, of the arm angle. That will give you NET force. For a 45 degree angle that's 289 lbs of force for a 205 lb guy. Keep in mind that the actual forces will be greater than that, because ALL the muscles of the back are firing as well, and that will create an additional force for the anterior chain to have to resist. The best thing to do would be to use force sensors. I think they actually have to be implanted into the muscle if you want to directly measure the force a muscle is producing in the body. It's pretty complicated, but keep in mind that is 1.4x bodyweight worth of force at a 45 degree angle to the body.That would equate to more like a 1.6x BW bench press, at the very least. If you had a 10s planche that would equate to something like a 5RM which means that level of force is .88 to .9x of max. That gives you a 1.77 to 1.8x BW bench with a 10s planche. Not too shabby for not touching a bar.Of course that's all just math, but for a 45 degree arm lean that's reasonable.I know that I'm supposed to do newtons and all that for the forces, but this was a faster way to put numbers to the question. Anyone who has a better of understanding of all this please chime in! I am not an expert in biomechanical math problems lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Sapinoso Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I'm pretty sure it's higher than that Sliz. I have a 10 second straddle planche and can just barely pause in a full planche. I just tested my 1RM bench for fun the other day. At 175lbs I pressed 300lbs or a little more than 1.7x BW. Although I do have fairly long arms comparatively.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I believe that, I'm just saying that even low-balling it you get some pretty impressive numbers. As you say, if you have long arms then you may already be at 45 degrees which would make a lot of sense. That also means that for you a 10s full planche would definitely correlate with a much higher bench press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashita Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I'm pretty sure it's higher than that Sliz. I have a 10 second straddle planche and can just barely pause in a full planche. I just tested my 1RM bench for fun the other day. At 175lbs I pressed 300lbs or a little more than 1.7x BW. Although I do have fairly long arms comparatively..Wow, this motivates me more to try to brench press the max as i can.my last record was almost 12 sec fingertips full planche, without say that i can add heavy weight on me as well.And i do full planche push up as well, damn i want to try it, maybe i can bencpress like 330 lbs !Do you feel chest is much more active when doing planche push ups on rings than floor? I would assume so but I don't really know. It feels like it to me.As i do both, on ring and floor, even that i need to improve my form on ring, i can tell you than on rings i feel much more my chest.Also it depends of the hands placement, with hands backwards, the chest is more under tension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seiji Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I understand to find exacts it would be insane to calculate... thank you for your simplified version. That's pretty much what I was looking for anyways lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Sapinoso Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I believe that, I'm just saying that even low-balling it you get some pretty impressive numbers. As you say, if you have long arms then you may already be at 45 degrees which would make a lot of sense. That also means that for you a 10s full planche would definitely correlate with a much higher bench press.Hmmm, I also have the lower body mass of an 12 year old anorexic girl so maybe it evens out [= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anhkun Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 varies from person to person, i weigh 70kgs and can bench 125kgs but can only hold a tuck for 8seconds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael David Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Hmmm, I also have the lower body mass of an 12 year old anorexic girl so maybe it evens out [=If your legs are like that, my legs are like the legs of a paraplegic... :oops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Chubb Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Hmmm, I also have the lower body mass of an 12 year old anorexic girl so maybe it evens out [=If your legs are like that, my legs are like the legs of a paraplegic... :oops:I am a little jealous of you both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anhkun Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 i have short arms meaning i have to lean fair more forward to get parralel to ground, does that mean there would be more deltoid recruitment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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