Ideas for doing weighted push ups

[Warrior'sSuite]

Anyone know of the best way to do weighted push ups without a weight vest? I'm out of the U.S. and buying one online will be extremely expensive, so for now I'll have to think of a way of doing them without a weight vest.

What would be the best option? Getting a strong back pack and putting plates in it?

Also, where would it be best to have the weight placed? Upper back?

I also can't count with someone helping me putting plates on and things like that, or sparring.

[Ryan Verma]

Instead of doing weighted pushups, why not just do pushups from a more disadvantaged position to increase the difficulty?

What I mean by that is, you could put your hands closer to your hips while doing pushups instead of putting them under your shoulders. This is called a pseudo planche pushup and will help you train to hold the planche position as well as planche pushups. You may find that you have to change your hand position from fingers-forward to fingers-backward to ease the strain on your wrist.

You could also do regular or pseudo planche pushups on rings, with or without your feet elevated on a bench. Properly performed, pseudo planche pushups are about as hard as doing a flat bench press with 100lb dumbells in each hand, at least for me. I judge that by saying that I max out at 8 reps with dumbbells, and 9 reps for pseudo planche pushups on rings with feet elevated.

Give it a shot. I'm sure it will keep you busy for a little while at least

[Warrior'sSuite]

Instead of doing weighted pushups, why not just do pushups from a more disadvantaged position to increase the difficulty?

What I mean by that is, you could put your hands closer to your hips while doing pushups instead of putting them under your shoulders. This is called a pseudo planche pushup and will help you train to hold the planche position as well as planche pushups. You may find that you have to change your hand position from fingers-forward to fingers-backward to ease the strain on your wrist.

You could also do regular or pseudo planche pushups on rings, with or without your feet elevated on a bench. Properly performed, pseudo planche pushups are about as hard as doing a flat bench press with 100lb dumbells in each hand, at least for me. I judge that by saying that I max out at 8 reps with dumbbells, and 9 reps for pseudo planche pushups on rings with feet elevated.

Give it a shot. I'm sure it will keep you busy for a little while at least

I thought about that, and I like the idea, but I read here in some thread (I can't remember which) that if you go hard on these they will mess up your tendons because of the decreased leverage, that you need to go slow with them, so that's why I didn't do them. I just thought it would be simpler to just add weight instead of risking an injury decreasing the leverage.

But come to think of it, at which point do you stop gaining muscle with bodyweight pushups?

I know there are a lot of different types of pushups, but for example, with the basic pushup on the floor, when do you stop gaining size? When you can do 15? I would think any reasonably fit person with no specific training would be able to do 15 pushups from the get-go, at least I've always been able to do 15 pushups.

I was also thinking of doing them declined, with my feet a lot more elevated than my hands and with some pushup bars to get even more range of motion, but I don't know how much size those would get.

Obviously the best in this area, probably, would be HSPU's, but I can only do like 5 and that's only on the floor and with the wall, so I can't get much volume with those. That doesn't mean I won't do them of course

So would you get injured if you do the PPP's hard? If it weren't for that, I'd be all for them.

[Philip Papandrea]

When I used to do them I just piled plates in a back pack and made the straps tight so there wasn't much movement of the backpack.

[Alexander Moreen]

Just pick a hand position where you can do 3-5 sets of 8-12 reps and do that a few times per week. Put some tape on the ground where your feet and hands go so you don't cheat.

[Warrior'sSuite]

Just pick a hand position where you can do 3-5 sets of 8-12 reps and do that a few times per week. Put some tape on the ground where your feet and hands go so you don't cheat.

Are you talking about PPP's?

[Joshua Naterman]

Yes he is, and that is the easiest way to make sure you're doing the same thing each time.

I was the one talking about taking your time so that you don't hurt yourself, and it's true, but for the purpose of building size, if that is what you want at the expense of straight arm development (which you CAN develop with Coach's Iron Cross ring support progressions and planche pre-requisites/ BTGB progressions) you can just not go up to straight arms. If you are stopping with a slight bend in the elbows of maybe 20 degrees you will not be severely stressing the inner elbow. This will, obviously, make the reps done in this fashion completely worthless for elbow conditioning, but for building your pecs and shoulders this is the way to go. Please understand, I am trying to give you the tools to get bigger muscles. Please do not mistake this with correct gymnastic conditioning, because it is not. However, not everyone cares about the straight arm strength and there's nothing wrong with that.

Other ways would be weighted vests, elastic bands across the back (Lifeline sells a very good product for this), and moving on to parallel bar planche push ups and planche dips. You could also make a leverage device, but you have to come up with that on your own. I probably just opened up a can of worms on that one... http://www.oldtimestrongman.com/blog/2009/03/schmidt-automatic-exerciser.html has pictures and descriptions. As you can tell, there is a fairly small range of motion. You would have to make a much larger version in order to have a decent ROM. Fortunately, you can do that with metal pipes, but it won't be pretty.

[Warrior'sSuite]

Yes he is, and that is the easiest way to make sure you're doing the same thing each time.

I was the one talking about taking your time so that you don't hurt yourself, and it's true, but for the purpose of building size, if that is what you want at the expense of straight arm development (which you CAN develop with Coach's Iron Cross ring support progressions and planche pre-requisites/ BTGB progressions) you can just not go up to straight arms. If you are stopping with a slight bend in the elbows of maybe 20 degrees you will not be severely stressing the inner elbow. This will, obviously, make the reps done in this fashion completely worthless for elbow conditioning, but for building your pecs and shoulders this is the way to go. Please understand, I am trying to give you the tools to get bigger muscles. Please do not mistake this with correct gymnastic conditioning, because it is not. However, not everyone cares about the straight arm strength and there's nothing wrong with that.

Other ways would be weighted vests, elastic bands across the back (Lifeline sells a very good product for this), and moving on to parallel bar planche push ups and planche dips. You could also make a leverage device, but you have to come up with that on your own. I probably just opened up a can of worms on that one... http://www.oldtimestrongman.com/blog/2009/03/schmidt-automatic-exerciser.html has pictures and descriptions. As you can tell, there is a fairly small range of motion. You would have to make a much larger version in order to have a decent ROM. Fortunately, you can do that with metal pipes, but it won't be pretty.

Hmm. So you're saying that, even if you do the PPP's as far forward as you can go, so long as you don't lock your arms at the top, you'll be in the clear? If that's the case, I'll do it.

I won't say that I don't care about straight arm strength and conditioning, because I do, but i'll make the exception with the PPP.

One more thing: whenever they say do 8-12 reps for hypertrophy, what's the tempo for such reps? I've always wondered that. Is it doing them fast, normal, slow, or what? Or does it not matter?

[Joshua Naterman]

Since you're probably not on steroids you're going to need to work low reps in a harder position AND higher reps in a more moderate position. You will have to figure out for yourself how far up you can safely go, I can't help you there. That's done by feel.

You are overthinking, just do the work and eat food afterwards. It really is that simple. Play around with tempos and decide what you like. Switch the tempos up every 2-3 weeks and you should be fine.

[Warrior'sSuite]

You are overthinking, just do the work and eat food afterwards. It really is that simple. Play around with tempos and decide what you like. Switch the tempos up every 2-3 weeks and you should be fine.

I just wanted to know how it was...

[Warrior'sSuite]

Well, there's one more thing: how much should the sets last and how much rest should you take between sets when training for hypertrophy?

[Aaron Griffin]

You are overthinking, just do the work and eat food afterwards.

This should be engraved on every set of rings you buy

[Joshua Naterman]

HAHAHA!!! That would be awesome!!! I claim copyright lol!

[Joshua Naterman]

Well, there's one more thing: how much should the sets last and how much rest should you take between sets when training for hypertrophy?

It depends on what kind of hypertrophy you are going for, but the basic answer is around 40 seconds. That's with relatively constant time under tension, so to speak. You don't want much of any rest time in the set when you're working for hypertrophy. Rest time can be anywhere from 60s to 3 minutes but generally the lower your rest time is the better, especially when trying to get bigger.

By the way, I wasn't trying to be condescending so I am sorry if that is how I came across. That was just the best advice I can give anyone, because it really is the number 1 most important thing.

[Warrior'sSuite]

Sorry to be a bug up the ass, but there are still some things I don't understand, like, they say do 5 sets of 8-12 reps for hypertrophy. Ok so I do for example 12 pullups (this is just an example, these aren't my real numbers), but since you take only a minute between sets on the next set I won't be able to do 12 again and by the 5th set it'll probably be half, 6 reps. So how do they do all 5 sets with 8-12 reps?

[Warrior'sSuite]

Well, there's one more thing: how much should the sets last and how much rest should you take between sets when training for hypertrophy?

It depends on what kind of hypertrophy you are going for, but the basic answer is around 40 seconds. That's with relatively constant time under tension, so to speak. You don't want much of any rest time in the set when you're working for hypertrophy. Rest time can be anywhere from 60s to 3 minutes but generally the lower your rest time is the better, especially when trying to get bigger.

By the way, I wasn't trying to be condescending so I am sorry if that is how I came across. That was just the best advice I can give anyone, because it really is the number 1 most important thing.

No problem, thanks for the answer.

[Gerald Mangona]

Sorry to be a bug up the ass, but there are still some things I don't understand, like, they say do 5 sets of 8-12 reps for hypertrophy. Ok so I do for example 12 pullups (this is just an example, these aren't my real numbers), but since you take only a minute between sets on the next set I won't be able to do 12 again and by the 5th set it'll probably be half, 6 reps. So how do they do all 5 sets with 8-12 reps?

The answer is that you don't. Pullups are too advanced a progression for you to be able to perform the rep and set count you're aiming for. I would suggest you substitute jumping pull-ups or pull-up negatives until you develop the strength to do pull-ups. Of course, the answer also moves in the other direction...at some point in the future (might be awhile)...5 sets of 12 is going to be too easy.

At that point you will move up a progression and do them with wide-grip, with your legs in a tuck, straddle, or L...or you'll put on a weighted vest....or you'll do all of the above. The key is to find the scaling of the difficulty of the progression that lines up with the rep and set count you're trying to accomplish.

Of course, the only person who can determine that is you...and the way to do it is to start with Slizzardman's instructions about working and eating

[Warrior'sSuite]

The answer is that you don't.

So whenever they say 5 sets of 8-12 reps, they actually don't do the exact same number on all 5 sets?

Pullups are too advanced a progression for you to be able to perform the rep and set count you're aiming for. I would suggest you substitute jumping pull-ups or pull-up negatives until you develop the strength to do pull-ups.

As I said this isn't my case, my max of pullups is around 12-14, probably, I haven't done any in a while. I was just making the point that you can't do the exact same number of pullups or chinups or any other exercise for that matter on the second set (let alone on set #3,4 and 5) if you're doing your max on the first and resting only 60s, all the more if they're exercises in which your max is around 12 reps (at least that's what happens in my case, don't know about the rest).

Of course, the answer also moves in the other direction...at some point in the future (might be awhile)...5 sets of 12 is going to be too easy.

At that point you will move up a progression and do them with wide-grip, with your legs in a tuck, straddle, or L...or you'll put on a weighted vest....or you'll do all of the above. The key is to find the scaling of the difficulty of the progression that lines up with the rep and set count you're trying to accomplish.

Of course, the only person who can determine that is you...and the way to do it is to start with Slizzardman's instructions about working and eating

Yeah, I got this.

So is this the way it's going to be? On the first set you'll do a few or a lot more reps than on the rest of the sets?

[Gerald Mangona]

So is this the way it's going to be? On the first set you'll do a few or a lot more reps than on the rest of the sets?

Yeah, through trial and error, I'll find a progression that lets me do 5 sets of 8. Of course, with this route, the first set will likely be much easier than the last set. So let's say I use jumping pull-ups with a slow descent. First 4 sets of 8 no problem. In fact, in the 5th set, I'll likely do as many as I can, but I'll stop at 12.

Then next week, if 12 was easy on the last set, I might try 9 or 10 on the first two sets and see how it feels.

Then after a few weeks of slowly and gradually increasing reps, through trial and error, I crank out 5 sets of 12 jumping pull-ups with a slow descent. Next week, I'll up the progression to pull-ups. Or pull-ups with an assistance band.

Your job isn't to go to failure, it's just to stay within the rep count. If the progression is too easy, and you're knocking out 5 x 12 easy...bump up the degree of difficulty. If it's too hard for you to hit 5 x 8, drop the difficulty down.

And yes, it's totally normal for the rep counts to be different for each set. It is, after all, trial and error. Just make sure each session you're working out hard.

J

[Warrior'sSuite]

So is this the way it's going to be? On the first set you'll do a few or a lot more reps than on the rest of the sets?

Yeah, through trial and error, I'll find a progression that lets me do 5 sets of 8. Of course, with this route, the first set will likely be much easier than the last set. So let's say I use jumping pull-ups with a slow descent. First 4 sets of 8 no problem. In fact, in the 5th set, I'll likely do as many as I can, but I'll stop at 12.

Then next week, if 12 was easy on the last set, I might try 9 or 10 on the first two sets and see how it feels.

Then after a few weeks of slowly and gradually increasing reps, through trial and error, I crank out 5 sets of 12 jumping pull-ups with a slow descent. Next week, I'll up the progression to pull-ups. Or pull-ups with an assistance band.

Your job isn't to go to failure, it's just to stay within the rep count. If the progression is too easy, and you're knocking out 5 x 12 easy...bump up the degree of difficulty. If it's too hard for you to hit 5 x 8, drop the difficulty down.

And yes, it's totally normal for the rep counts to be different for each set. It is, after all, trial and error. Just make sure each session you're working out hard.

J

I think I know what you're talking about, and I think I was doing the exact same thing not too long ago, but I stopped doing it because I didn't know if it was going to give me size and I didn't want to waste my time.

A friend of mine told me to try it out but I forgot what the reason for him doing so was. Right now he's in South Korea and I've lost all contact with him, the fool didn't even give me his email or something and he doesn't even have a facebook account so I'll have to wait until he returns.

I was doing 5 sets of a lot of different types of pulls and chins, 7 kinds to be exact; each of the 5 sets was 6 reps with 60s rest between sets. 6 reps was the most I could do on each set from the get-go. If I did 7 reps on the first set I wouldn't be able to do 7 on the next 4 sets.

So is this what you're doing too? The plan was to get to where I could do all sets with at least 10 reps with the same rest time between sets but like I said I stopped doing it because I didn't know if it was going to work and I had to dedicate a day so that I could do all the pulls, I did them 3 days a week though.

So does this actually work for size? I'll do it again if it does. I could do 1 type of pull every 30-40 minutes, so I could do them all in the night or in the afternoon or if I were to wake up early, in the morning. This was only because they were only 6 reps I suppose.

Well, what I decided to do right now is get exercises in which I can do 8-12 reps max or even less, do 5 sets of those and just keep progressing with that. I say this because I was doing exercises in which I could do a lot of reps but that shizz won't cut it it seems, time to get nasty, do exercises that are really hard for me.

Today I did tuck FL rows, or tucked chinups, I don't really know how they're called right now but the thing is I can do 8 reps max on those, so I did that. The last set was 4 reps lol. I also started to do floor HSPU's on the wall, my max was 5 on those, on the last set I did 2. I paired these 2 exercises, first the pull one and then the push. So I'll keep doing these and keep improving the difficulty once I get somewhere.

Well, I'm doing as many reps as I can each set with these. But you say you shouldn't do this?

[Gerald Mangona]

Hey man... I know you're new here and all, so I'll try to be patient.

(1) Too many questions. I know you're just trying to make sure you're doing the right thing, but it's too many questions. At some point, you need less information and you need more experience. You're at that point. Although there is a science to this, there is an art to it as well. Pick something, try it for 3-6 months, stick with it, report back your results. Adjust accordingly. Maybe the program is fine but the diet needs to be tweaked. You'll just have to find out. The only way you do that is trial and error.

(2) If you work out hard and adjust your diet you will get bigger. Yes, certain rep counts will help gain more hypertrophy, instead of raw strength or endurance. But even when I took up boxing 5 years ago, being able to go from 15 consecutive pushups to 25 consecutive pushups showed a difference in my body composition.

You're still new enough that doing something...almost anything...for 3 months straight will give you some size. And even if it doesn't, I guarantee it will give you more information.

(3) If you want my advice... it's simple enough for you to keep in your head but complex enough that it there's a system to it. Here's what I'm doing:

- Workout 4 days per week

- Do a warmup with FSPs...plank, reverse plank, support, chin, arch, hollow. Work up to 60s

- 2 of those four days, I do Slizzardman's pull-up routine:

from viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4726

2 rounds of 5 reps per grip: Close, regular, wide, chin up, parallel grip. If this is too much, do 2 rounds of 2, 3, 4 etc until you get to 2 rounds of 5 reps. Do not increase the reps of your first sets until ALL rounds and reps can be done at a particular level. Example, don't start doing 4 rep sets until all 5 sets in both rounds are at 3 reps.

At 2 rounds of 5 reps per grip, you should have a max of 7-9 pull ups at least. You're then ready to start tackling 2 rounds of 7 reps and then 2 rounds of 10 reps. You COULD just keep increasing the reps of your first sets every time you are able to handle a specific number of reps for both rounds. This is a great beginning pull up program, and actually works well all the way up through the 10 reps per set. I never took it past this. 2-3x per week is perfect, and that will be dependent on each person's recovery ability and how their progress goes.

- all four days I do ONE set of the WOD, scaled to my ability. Again, trial and error. Look through the WODs and people will show you how they scale. If you make it too easy or too hard one week, IT'S GONNA BE OK. Just adjust next time around.

Do it. Do it for 6 months. I guarantee that if you're doing 10 set of 5 pull-ups, people will see the difference in your body. If that's easy, then work it to 10 sets of 10 pull-ups. I swear, if you can do that...any non-athlete will think you're a monster. And after 6-months experience on the WODs you'll have a much clearer idea of your strength and skill levels.

Quit worrying about hypertrophy for right now. You (and I) are still at points where the gains will come just from being new. Goin from 10 sets of two to 10 sets of 3-4 has already shown difference in my back and biceps.

No more analysis.

Go workout.

Make mistakes.

Seriously, if you're unsure what to do at this point, it's ok to guess.

Track your progress.

Report back in 2 weeks and get feedback.

If you workout hard every time, find a program and stick with it for months, be patient with sloooooooow progress to avoid be injured, and make adjustments as you go, you will get plenty big and plenty strong.

[Warrior'sSuite]

You're right lol, that last post was a little too much, I apologize.

So I'll give the pulls another go, see what happens. I'll report back in 2-3 weeks or something.

[Michael Traynor]

No more analysis.

Go workout.

Make mistakes.

This^

Sitting on forums is a rubbish way to gain muscle mass

Follow a template outlined here or in the book, or killroy's or slizz's or above but don't "quit because I was worried it wasn't going to work".

Stop for pain, risk of injury. Any other reason just keep tweaking scaling making sure you get good intensity and hit the main important areas.

Diet and Sleep are always going to be huge factors in gaining mass too (but soon enough you will realise that you would rather have awesome gymnastic ability than useless mass anyway and that will be that start of the rest of your life ;P )

Although there is a science to this, there is an art to it as well.

This too^

Everyone is different and although this site and Coach's book and methods do a fantastic job of creating a system to attain incredible (seemingly superhuman) abilities, strength and physique, everyone is different and training will be different (at least slightly) for everyone. e.g. for me muscle ups were fairly easy to attain but due to a weakness in my lower back I struggle with all the MPPress moves as my flexibility is bad, that means I have to spend many more hours working flexibility that most. No amount of reading forums posts would teach me this. I had to find it out through trail and error. For me front lever is easier than back lever which for almost everyone else is the reverse, again identifying my weaknesses and therefore dictating my training focus.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Warrior

[Joshua Naterman]

Very nicely put, Jman!

Warrior: Have fun and let us know how things are going with a specific progress update 1-2x per month! Do you have a workout log here yet?

[Warrior'sSuite]

Nah man, I don't have a workout log here.

I'm just going to start with this: tuck FL chinups/pullups on the rings, floor HSPU's on the wall, tuck FL pulls, the biceps curls with the rings (although I'll modify the height of the rings and all so that the most reps I can do are 10), ring pushups, and we'll see what else. On all these exercises the most I can do is 10 reps on the ring pushups and the rest are like 8. I'll pair a pull and a push and make that a workout, 5 sets with 60s rest between sets. I started 2 days ago tuesday doing the tuck FL chins and floor HSPU's and the next day I woke up very sore, the ring pushups I did yesterday made me very sore today too.

I'll see if I get to where I can do at least 10 reps on all 5 sets and then increase the difficulty somehow.

I'm also going to be doing the pullups workout similar to the one you said.

I'm going to look for more exercises like these but at the moment these are the ones I have.