Lembas

[Joshua Naterman]

You know how in the Lord of the Rings books Frodo and Sam end up in Lothlorien with Galadriel, and when they leave the elves give the hobbits Lembas? That was the elven energy food that was wrapped in leaves to keep it fresh and moist, and it gave much more energy than it seemed like it should.

I think I know what it is. I made sprouted wheat bread by simply taking half a pound or so of wheat sprouts and putting them in the blender, then cooking the resulting dough-like mass in the oven at 170 for 4 hours. The result was quite good. My friends at grappling club were pretty impressed, they all suggested adding ground cinnamon so I will do that with my next batch of wheat sprouts. Anyhow, my conclusion is that Lembas are sprouted grains that have been mashed up into a dough and baked at extra low temperature. My bread has pretty crazy energy properties, and the whole Lembas thing popped into my head. This stuff is incredible! Elves rule, even if they aren't real.

On a serious note, I am totally serious about the sprouted wheat bread. I did not add flour or anthing, though I DID add a very small amount of water just to see if it would matter. it did not, the sprouts just mash together into something of a natural dough. Obviously a food processor would do this better than a blender, but I made do with the meager tools at my disposal. Wheat is sweet, which caught me off guard.

My next batch will be the rest of my wheat, followed closely by a mix of wheat, rye, barley and oats. Of course they will all be sprouted. I will let you all know how it comes out. I may also experiment with using some dextrose for sweetening, but I am finding that I actually like the natural flavor.

[John Sapinoso]

I like to think its made of quail eggs, coconut flour, coconut oil and coconut sugar then wrapped in banana leaves.

[Tarun Suri]

Does it give you the energy of “a full day's march�

[Joshua Naterman]

I like to think its made of quail eggs, coconut flour, coconut oil and coconut sugar then wrapped in banana leaves.

MMMM... sounds tasty! I should put some coconut oil or creamed coconut in my next batch. Thank you!

[Joshua Naterman]

Does it give you the energy of “a full day's march�

It definitely gives the energy of a full afternoon's workout! It's kind of weird how dense it is, I really can't eat very much at one time, maybe a 2" by 2" by .75" block or so before I feel full. The energy really lasts, but I bet it's going to be way better with some creamed coconut and cinnamon! I am excited! That will be an experiment for next week.

Edit: Egg is probably a great idea too, just to hold it all together. Things may not be as secure after I add everything without egg!

[Razz]

Slizzardman you don't care about the whole paleo deal or are you just not bothered to avoid these certain types of food?

[Tarun Suri]

I think he's making due with his budget on hand, if I remember right.

[Blairbob]

An interesting article on the supposition of paleo for athletes. No, I'm not talking about recreational fitness athletes or tactical athletes. However, I would lump some tactical athletes, pending, in with athletes. They kind of vary.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/warrior_fitness_who_or_whats_a_nate_miyaki

[Joshua Naterman]

Slizzardman you don't care about the whole paleo deal or are you just not bothered to avoid these certain types of food?

There is an important distinction here that I don't expect very many people to catch on their own. Paleo suggests that you eat what was available, which means living plants and animals. Fruits are alive. Veggies are alive. Greens are alive, and so are sprouts. The only difference between the sprouts and full grown plants is the amount of chlorophyll they have.

Dormant seeds are different, they are not currently alive but in a sort of suspended state. There are chemicals present that prevent metabolism from happening and that is why seeds last so long when they stay dry. We know some of these chemicals are very inflammatory when ingested, especially in people who are not genetically familiar with the foods that have these, whether they are pulses (beans, etc) or seeds.

The germination process destroys these compounds and re-activates metabolism. Stored nutrients become bioavailable and the prime conditions for growth are restored. In this state, the sprouted seed is practically no different from the full grown plant, with the exception of nutrient density. The sprouted seeds are much more dense.

Because of these processes sprouts, even grain sprouts, should not be considered in the same nutritional category as the dry seeds. They do not share the same potentially irritating lectins. Obviously gluten is an issue for some, but not for all, and in that case you would want to be careful if you are gluten intolerant. Wheat sprouts have considerably less gluten than dry seed as it is enzymatically converted into other amino acids during germination and the longer you let the sprouts grow the less gluten remains. Mixes of sprouted grains also seem to be much better tolerated by gluten-sensitive people than just sprouted wheat. Generally only true celiac sufferers will be unable to enjoy sprouted grain breads or products.

For me, personally, I have had very large amounts of gluten at one time without any problems at all. I actually like how it tastes. Of course, my genetic heritage is that of thousands of years of wheat eaters, so that's not surprising.

[Razz]

Yeah I knew there would be less of an issue with the sprouted grains, but still. You don't believe that gluten is bad for you, at all? Of course I see it's a great cheap way for some very decent food. Thanks for the long answer by the way

[cccp22]

You know how in the Lord of the Rings books Frodo and Sam end up in Lothlorien with Galadriel, and when they leave the elves give the hobbits Lembas? That was the elven energy food that was wrapped in leaves to keep it fresh and moist, and it gave much more energy than it seemed like it should.

I think I know what it is. I made sprouted wheat bread by simply taking half a pound or so of wheat sprouts and putting them in the blender, then cooking the resulting dough-like mass in the oven at 170 for 4 hours. The result was quite good. My friends at grappling club were pretty impressed, they all suggested adding ground cinnamon so I will do that with my next batch of wheat sprouts. Anyhow, my conclusion is that Lembas are sprouted grains that have been mashed up into a dough and baked at extra low temperature. My bread has pretty crazy energy properties, and the whole Lembas thing popped into my head. This stuff is incredible! Elves rule, even if they aren't real.

On a serious note, I am totally serious about the sprouted wheat bread. I did not add flour or anthing, though I DID add a very small amount of water just to see if it would matter. it did not, the sprouts just mash together into something of a natural dough. Obviously a food processor would do this better than a blender, but I made do with the meager tools at my disposal. Wheat is sweet, which caught me off guard.

My next batch will be the rest of my wheat, followed closely by a mix of wheat, rye, barley and oats. Of course they will all be sprouted. I will let you all know how it comes out. I may also experiment with using some dextrose for sweetening, but I am finding that I actually like the natural flavor.

******* anything like "Ezekiel" bread? They do have a "home making" kit.

Brandon Green

[Joshua Naterman]

Yeah I knew there would be less of an issue with the sprouted grains, but still. You don't believe that gluten is bad for you, at all? Of course I see it's a great cheap way for some very decent food. Thanks for the long answer by the way

That's a good question. Do you believe that alcohol is good for you at all? Studies show that small levels of this known, proven toxin actually seem to increase health markers. Would it be strange if something similar happened with gluten? I am not saying that is the case, but it is something to consider on a purely conceptual level.

Now, I don't actually know the answer to that, but with everything that is going on low levels of gluten is certainly going to be very low on the list of health concerns compared to microwaves, fructose, trans fats and GMO foods. I think there needs to be a lot more research done on all of these things, but we've got to be a bit realistic and say that there is just no way that gluten is anywhere near as big of a threat as the aforementioned things. There are bodybuilders and powerlifters who literally go through jars per week of straight wheat gluten and have absolutely no problems, and that's been going on for decades.

It's reasonable to assume that yes, there may be some negative effects from large or perhaps even moderate levels of gluten, but eating right is not about eliminating all problems. Even Omega 3 fatty acids are inflammatory, but their ability to compete with Omega 6 for COX receptors and be 5-20 times less inflammatory in the body outweighs their slightly inflammatory nature.

You can not avoid foods with undesirable side effects, even greens have oxalic acid, but you can use the foods to balance each other out and create a net positive effect. That is what our bodies were designed to do and perhaps what nature has designed the foods that grow for us to do. Life all developed together, and it is more than capable of sustaining itself. As they say, it is all about balance. That small amount of gluten is more than offset by the enzymes you get from the sprouts, not to mention the vitamins. Any small amount of inflammation that may come from the sprouted grain can be balanced with the greens of your choice. You can neutralize the oxalic acid by boiling your greens for about 3 minutes or steaming them lightly. Paper, Scissors, Rock. I eat around the clock. I like my food, don't test me dude... or I'll write more rhymes that rhyme with clock!

[Graham Smith]

Slizzard, I think the answer to the gluten question is that there is no answer. Everybody is different and has different tolerences based on their genetics. I have no issue with gluten, my wife does. I tried Robb Wolf's strict 30 day palaeo challenge as outlined in his recent book, and I got really really sick on it. Worked great for him, not for me.

That toxins in small doses can be good for you comes as no surprise, Selenium and molybdenum are known to be extremely toxic metals even in relatively small doses, and yet, without any at all, you would die pretty quickly.

I notice that you list microwaves as a concern. What is your gripe with microwaves? CSIRO studies have shown that microwaving veggies retains far more micronutrients than any other form of cooking.

[Joshua Naterman]

Slizzard, I think the answer to the gluten question is that there is no answer. Everybody is different and has different tolerences based on their genetics. I have no issue with gluten, my wife does. I tried Robb Wolf's strict 30 day palaeo challenge as outlined in his recent book, and I got really really sick on it. Worked great for him, not for me.

That toxins in small doses can be good for you comes as no surprise, Selenium and molybdenum are known to be extremely toxic metals even in relatively small doses, and yet, without any at all, you would die pretty quickly.

I notice that you list microwaves as a concern. What is your gripe with microwaves? CSIRO studies have shown that microwaving veggies retains far more micronutrients than any other form of cooking.

Microwaves create hot spots in food, which leads to a breakdown of heat-sensitive phytochemicals, antioxidants and other nutrients like vitamin C, and also causes the formation of carcinogenic substances. Everyone who has ever used a microwave has run into this hot spot phenomenon, as far as I am aware. Everyone I know has.

Now, I am pretty sure that if you use really low settings and just nuke the food longer that it would be less harmful, but I do not know for sure. Reduction of hot spots and more even heating will reduce the problems, perhaps significantly so.

In the end, I do not believe that microwaves are anywhere near as terrible as the pervasive use of fructose for diabetics and food in general and petroleum chemicals getting into our farmland (and consequently our food), but they are still capable of much more harm than very low levels of gluten. Like everything else, the damage microwaves are capable of can probably be successfully managed without complete elimination of the machine, but I don't know that for sure. That would require some expensive nutrient analysis with multiple products and trials at different power levels.

[Rikke Olsen]

Yeah I knew there would be less of an issue with the sprouted grains, but still. You don't believe that gluten is bad for you, at all? Of course I see it's a great cheap way for some very decent food. Thanks for the long answer by the way

I actually just listened to an episode of The Paleo Solution today featuring Mat Lalonde. Although he said he didn't see the point in eating gluten (because grains aren't very nutrient dense), he doesn't think there's necessarily a problem with it, given you're not celiac or have bad experiences after having ingested grains/gluten.

[Razz]

Yeah I heard that episode. The problem is almost everyone is intolerant to it to some degree. If you eliminate it for 30 days and then add it in you can see for yourself it you are tolerant or not

[Joshua Naterman]

Perhaps, but I'm not one. I was gluten free for about 4 months and the only difference between eating grains and not eating grains for me is how many food options I have! That doesn't mean anything for anyone else, just me. We all have to find out for ourselves what is best for us. I HAVE found that sprouting the grains makes a massive difference both in taste and bodily response, as have many others. Sprouting makes the nutrition in grains fully available, and there IS an enormous difference in nutrient density due to the vastly increases bioavailabilty of the micronutrients in the grains.

Still, I hope that everyone remembers to experiment with this stuff individually, as there is no broad scale solution or explanation.

[Razz]

Yeah sprouting destroys many of the anti nutrients too But yes, of course, everyone must figure out what works for them! Full paleo is a place that works for most people to start, they can then experiement... The problem with gluten however is not only the short term "do you feel a difference", much of it is long term damage. According to Poliquin grains lower the pH in the intestine which then kills of our good gut bacteria which leads to a host of other illnesses...Again this may not happen in all people, but it sure as hell is interesting stuff to think about

[Joshua Naterman]

That IS interesting. I've never heard that before, I wonder what that's about. Do you have any suggested reading on that?

[Razz]

For the gut and pH unfortunately no. It's just in my massive amount of biosig notes

[Rikke Olsen]

Yeah I heard that episode. The problem is almost everyone is intolerant to it to some degree. If you eliminate it for 30 days and then add it in you can see for yourself it you are tolerant or not

I don't eat grains, and I don't ever intend to

I'm pretty much Paleo; eat a little fermented dairy and occasional heavy cream + butter. I do eat starches though. Keep carbs (veggies are NOT included in this) around 100g/day.

Have you guys seen http://www.perfecthealthdiet.com yet? I think it's VERY interesting, and I'm waiting for my copy of the book to arrive!

[Razz]

Hmm haven't heard of it but would love to hear a review once you've read the book

[Larry Roseman]

Yeah sprouting destroys many of the anti nutrients too But yes, of course, everyone must figure out what works for them! Full paleo is a place that works for most people to start, they can then experiement... The problem with gluten however is not only the short term "do you feel a difference", much of it is long term damage. According to Poliquin grains lower the pH in the intestine which then kills of our good gut bacteria which leads to a host of other illnesses...Again this may not happen in all people, but it sure as hell is interesting stuff to think about

I was in the health store a few months ago and tried these sprouted wheat bagels. Great flavor, amazingly soft and

high protein, like 15g per bagel and very low carbs as well. The dough made sounds exactly like what slizzardman described above. Was very tasty!

Wonder how Poliuin measured the pH of the intestine? Stuck some pH strips up there ?

Measuring the poop is not the same as the intestine. In any event, local pH readings vary all over the body all over the

time, and are regulated accordingly. The main thing is that blood pH stays within a strict range, which is slighly alkaline in everyone. The body has multiple systems to protect this, that are extremely hard to overcome; metabolic acidosis being a condition more commonly found in diabetic patients.

[Razz]

I don't know which experiment tested it, but after seeing Poliquin in real life I'm even more of a fan/believer in like 99.9% of what he says.

[Joshua Naterman]

If you do a quick google search of "grain gut ph" you will find all kinds of results. There IS something to this, but I don't know what since I've been gardening and pruning holly bushes (argh!) all day with my dad.

Needless to say, I'm very eager to learn more about this.