gymnastics training effect on body comp

[Greg Thompson]

Hey guys,

(I apologize for the long and vain post ahead of time)

I've been snooping around the forums for a few months, but just recently decided to register and contribute. Since I can remember gymnastic type training has fascinated me. It seems very fun, and rewarding. I have not bought the BtGB book yet or rings. I'm still trying to figure out a way to hang them in my apartment(any ideas). Anyways my question is this. I have been a wrestler/grappler for almost my entire life. For the past 2 years I picked up Brazilian Jiu-jitsu. Through this whole time I have always lifted weights. In the past it has been mostly bodybuilding type splits that all the high school kids to do get a pump.(lol). But over the past year I have focused more on strength training with the big barbell movements. Squat, Dead, Bench,Press, Row along with Weighted chins/pullups/dips. I'll admit it is quite rewarding watching my numbers on the bar go up,but it can get boring.

I would really like to add gymnastics training into my arsenal to possibly replace the weight training completley, as long as it can provide a few things. Not only am I trying to improve performance on the mat in BJJ, but I'll admit I'm quite vain. Since I put a lot of time into my training/nutrition/and fitness related reserach, I do like to look like a guy who trains.

I'm sure a lot of the argument will be to just say look at what gymnasts looks like. The thing is those guys are at the top of their game, they also train many many more hours then I will. I also know nutrition is a big deal, I follow pretty strict Primal/Paleo a la Mark Sisson, Robb Wolf.

Sorry for carrying on, my question basically comes down to this. Would subbing in strictly gymnastics type training, by way of the WODs continue to improve body composition? My goals are to actually gain weight(lean mass). If i had to guess bf% Id say I'm around 10-12%. 5'8 165lbs. I'd like to get up to 175ish with single digit bf. I know from reading the site most people are more interested in performance than their bf%. But Coach's signature sums it up for me. "To look and perform like a gymnast, you must train like a gymnast" I'm just wondering if its actually possible following only what is written in the BtGB, and by following WODs.

[Alexander Moreen]

If you have a decent bench then you'll probably lose size on your chest, but your arms, shoulders, back, and core(especially obliques) should all get bigger. If chest and leg size is important to you keep bench and squats in your routine.

[JL]

If you have a decent bench then you'll probably lose size on your chest, but your arms, shoulders, back, and core(especially obliques) should all get bigger. If chest and leg size is important to you keep bench and squats in your routine.

That pretty much sums it up.

[Razz]

I must disagree about the chest. Support work, ring pushups, cross, maltese, rings planche, ring flyes and variations of all the mentioned absolutely beats up your chest and I see no need for bench press to be kept in there.

[Felipe]

After a year of not benching but only swinging on pbars I'm stronger than before (more than 70kgx5 at 64kg bw)

[Blairbob]

the conditioning wod's are pretty good for something like wrestling. most rounds tend to be 3-5 minutes in length.

i would still keep at least the deadlifts in your programming

for the most part ring strength and bw strength will be good for your upper body but it won't hurt to keep working any barbell lifts for core strength. you could simply just work bench and deadlift as your lifts only.

[Alexander Moreen]

I must disagree about the chest. Support work, ring pushups, cross, maltese, rings planche, ring flyes and variations of all the mentioned absolutely beats up your chest and I see no need for bench press to be kept in there.

Supports will give a little stimulation, moreso if you do swinging supports, ring pushups are good of course, and ring flyes are great if he can do them, however cross, maltese, and ring planches are things hes not going to be able to do(and are even recommended against training till he has other things down like back lever and correctly turned out handstand on rings) for years mostly likely, so until then if he wants to keep his chest size I'd keep the bench in. And also think about the fact that while gymnasts obviously have a very STRONG chest, many guys in a normal gym benching less than that gymnast could will have a bigger chest than said gymnast.

Even the guy on the cover the book has a moderate to small chest by barbel benching standards.

It really depends on whats important to him.

After a year of not benching but only swinging on pbars I'm stronger than before (more than 70kgx5 at 64kg bw)

Same for me man(220 to 280 over the last 2 years), but we are talking size not strength.

[Greg Thompson]

Well my Chest has always been one spot that has been lacking for me. And I don't have to be the biggest guy in the room. I'm was just wondering what kinda of composition I could expect out of doing strictly WODS because I assume it would be something totally different then a guy who focuses onthe big lifts. It sounds like it would produce a more athletic look which is what is rather have anyways. Just wasn't sure if I'd lose it because I'd e starting out so basic.

[AlexX]

If you put the effort into the work I doubt you would lose much if any muscle mass. As long as the muscles are being stimulated they'll stay. At 165 I doubt you would have any atrophy because you switched from one method of training to another. I started ring work at 160 while still doing a mix of weights and bodyweight no change, eventually changed to just bodyweight (for upperbody) and once again no change, for a variety of reasons eventually I decided to work on the bodyweight lower body progressions (switched from deadlifts and squats to ghr's and single leg squats) no change in body mass. Even though I haven't lost any muscle mass certain areas have increased in hypertrophy ex: hamstrings, traps. I suppose this is because they are stressed a lot more directly now vs just as helpers.

Even better examples would be Demus and Slizzardman, to my knowledge they both built their original muscle mass from more traditional weightlifting approaches and then later switched to a more rings/bodyweight approach with no significant losses in muscle mass. I hope they'll post in this thread for a more detailed version of their experience as I am going strictly going by what they have said briefly mentioned on the forums and videos. Sllizardman in good example in particular as he is well above 200+ lbs.

[Joshua Naterman]

Yes sir! Even with a very low calorie diet I am still right around 210. The only reason I dropped down from 225 over the past 2 months is that I didn't have much money for a little bit so I couldn't buy as much food as I wanted, and I have been focusing on taking care of my nagging shoulder issues, which of course prevents a lot of training so I haven't been using the muscle. I actually got bigger by a little bit on the GB program, I gained about 10 lbs over the course of 6 months or so. Pretty good for an already big guy who wasn't really looking to gain weight.

Now that I can slowly start training a little more "for real" I should be able to pack it all back on.

[Razz]

Yeah I wasn't recommending training malteses or crosses. Ring planches could still be tucked or wtv, in reality it's just a harder variation of support. The reason gymnasts chests are small by barbell benching standards are probably these: 1) Barbell benching will focus an awful lot on horizontal pressing. I believe you can get the same hypertrophy (or better) if you did the same amount of lets say XR bulgarian pushups as you normally do in bench. 2) very generalized gymnasts are often leaner.

[Greg Thompson]

Thanks for the info guys. Looking forward to reading through btgb. Does the book explain how to set up programing for different goals? If not is there a thread or site somewhere I can read to learn how to properly put together a good program. I think I might keep squat and deadlift in my program and focus on gymnastics for upper body strength and physique improvements.

[Greg Thompson]

Also what is the best way to hang XRs in an apartment setting?

[Blairbob]

Easiest way is off a doorframe pullup bar. Think IronGym or one of those in between the doorframe ones.

[Greg Thompson]

I thought about that but then I wasn't sure if they'd be high enough or if I'd have enough room side to side

[Newguy]

Depending on the type of roof you are going to put your rings under you could do what I did, simply take a 2x4 and cut some thin holes for the straps to go through and nail that to your ceiling.

[cccp22]

If you have a decent bench then you'll probably lose size on your chest, but your arms, shoulders, back, and core(especially obliques) should all get bigger. If chest and leg size is important to you keep bench and squats in your routine.

******* Would that be true if you were doing supports,various ring dips(bulgarian,RTO), push ups of various kinds(ppp,maltese,ring flyes) etc.

Brandon Green

[Joshua Naterman]

If you were doing heavy weighted dips you would not be losing much chest size if any, so long as you are making sure to focus on the chest by flaring the elbows to 45 degrees or so and concentrating on using the pecs for a good portion of the sets. That's about the only thing I am confident in saying as far as this bench press thing goes. There are probably other things you can do, like weighted tuck planche push ups at a 45 degree below horizontal instead of horizontal, which is really more of a chest-oriented dip.

[Razz]

I still must say I believe it is 100% possible to keep all your chest size. It may require more horizontal pressing such as bulgarian pushups and deep ring flyes until you are strong enough to work crosses. But seriously, if you're worried about it you should be able to keep the size by adding some specialized chest work. Of course no one has said that you have to stop working weights either, you can keep doing that a few times per week aswell if that's what you want

[Joshua Naterman]

Agreed, unless you have over a 2x BW bench you should be able to maintain chest size with appropriately selected BW work. I think once you start getting up there that you would probably have to add weight to the movements, just like the really strong rings guys do their strength series with weighted belts. For most of us, I don't think that's an immediate concern!