WOD vs. training by "the book"

[Dillon Castro]

coach, or to anyone really, would you find it more effective for a relatively weak athlete (out of shape really period) to perform the wod's or to follow the formula you gave for building a routine in building the gymnastic body? or i suppose another way to put it is if someone (myself) did not possess a high level of work capacity would it make more sense to build a solid base off a "regular" workout regimen (performing a few fsp's with varying corresponding fbe's, focusing primarily on maximal strength that changes only slightly)or is the cross training nature of the wod's a better (produce the most gains) thing for an athlete's foundation? sorry if that doesn't all make sense or if it is a dumb question but i have been curious about this since i saw the contrast of Wod's compared to the advice in the book. Thanks to whoever wants to address my problem; it will help me enormously.

[Cole Dano]

It makes total sense.

I'd say just on personal experience that if you can comfortably scale the exercises in the WODs then that is the best way to go.

One way to think of the WODs is like the program you suggest, because for you the scaling of each WOD would turn it into more basic exercises. Only it would revolve around a bigger cycle than a week. This gives more recovery time between exercises and begins building a broader base of strength and to some extent skills.

It is actually surprising the progress that is made from cycle to cycle, but this is the hard part, because i know it does feel like you have to be up to some 'basic' standard to get started.

I started as reported on another thread being able to do 0 pull ups, i think i was at about 3 when i decided to do the WODs seriously rather than dabble, and it wasn't a problem.

So as you fit your basic standard workouts to the WOD cycle you will get familiar with the exercises and progress without really knowing it.

[Eddie Stelling]

As a beginner you WILL NOT design a better routine on your own. You will more than likely design an un-balanced routine, get hurt, and eventually realize you should have started the WODs a looong time ago after you wasted a year playing around with different stuff. They are completly scaleable to even the low level beginner. Use the book to help you scale with moves in the same family. Trust everyones advice, bite the bullet and commit to the WODs and the FSP steady state cycle. Just get started and be smart. Shoulder prehab before and after every workout. Look up idos scapula routines.

[Mehmet Yuce]

I think I'll join the crowd here, just because I felt like Eddie was describing me in his post. I bought the book as soon as it came out, designed a plan for myself using it, and stuck with that plan more than a year. Needless to say I have nowhere near the insight and understanding of programming details that Coach has. I did make some progress, but now that I think of it, I think I had also started to hurt myself as well. My shoulders had started to bother me. About 4 months ago I decided to go with the WOD's. I was following them a week behind. This way I knew how everybody was scaling things and I had the material to study in advance. It's hard for me to know what would have happened had I stayed with my original plan, but I really really doubt that it would be as enjoyable and productive as the WOD's. I still find stuff that I don't know how to scale, but I do what I can. For the most part, though, it's working out great.

Now having said all that, I have a suggestion to make: Do you guys think it would make sense to get the WOD's weekly rather than daily? I want to be absolutely sure that this is something Coach also finds to be advantageous. He gives us everything on Monday morning for the week (or Sunday evening), and then he is free for the rest of the week. We go over the material, dreaming and drooling over what we will be doing during the week and get pumped up...Again though, I don't completely know what it entails to give us the daily program. I believe it is, for the most part, a repeating structure. But if it's going to be a burden for the Coach at all for any reason, or if there's a disadvantage to doing it like that that I can't see, I don't want it. I just wanted to know how everybody would feel about this.

[Cole Dano]

Now having said all that, I have a suggestion to make: Do you guys think it would make sense to get the WOD's weekly rather than daily? I want to be absolutely sure that this is something Coach also finds to be advantageous. He gives us everything on Monday morning for the week (or Sunday evening), and then he is free for the rest of the week. We go over the material, dreaming and drooling over what we will be doing during the week and get pumped up...Again though, I don't completely know what it entails to give us the daily program. I believe it is, for the most part, a repeating structure. But if it's going to be a burden for the Coach at all for any reason, or if there's a disadvantage to doing it like that that I can't see, I don't want it. I just wanted to know how everybody would feel about this.

That could go either way, i suppose having the WODs come out each day keeps it more fresh, but for someone really committed it might be nice to be able to plan ahead.

For us who are ahead in time, this would also be nice, but the truth is Coach must never sleep because they are usually posted before 9:00 am my time. With my schedule i wouldn't be able to work out before then anyway.

In any case what you are doing running one week behind is perfectly ok and it essentially does the same thing. The way the WODs rotate it really doesn't matter how many days behind you want to run as long as you keep it consistent.

[Scott Malin]

I concur with the "scale the WOD" line of thought. You would be amazed at how far it is possible to regress many of these exercises. There are even ways to adapt some of these to water for the extreme low end and still feel the exactness of muscle work, losing none of the essence. If you ever are not sure, ask. Chances are one of us on the boards will know a regression already or be able to guide you in scaling.

[Dillon Castro]

As a beginner you WILL NOT design a better routine on your own. You will more than likely design an un-balanced routine, get hurt, and eventually realize you should have started the WODs a looong time ago after you wasted a year playing around with different stuff. They are completly scaleable to even the low level beginner. Use the book to help you scale with moves in the same family. Trust everyones advice, bite the bullet and commit to the WODs and the FSP steady state cycle. Just get started and be smart. Shoulder prehab before and after every workout. Look up idos scapula routines.

wow, i think you misunderstood my post friend. i have no intention designing a routine that is better. Recall if you will that in the book there is a version of a full body workout 3-4 days a week that goes through the following

Warm up

embedded BL + pulling FBE

" " PL +pushing FBE

" " FL + core FBE

Legs FBE's (deck squats,sls etc.)

These things were written by Coach in his book, so to put my question in a way you will understand better, what was the intention of including these workout guidelines. I figure coach wouldn't have put them in a book people pay their hard earned money for if they were false so i suppose i simply want to know the thought behind it. Obviously workout variation is good but even Ido, who you yourself seem to look up to as well, wrote once briefly about some the benefits of following a regular routine

saying something along the lines of (i'm very much paraphrasing here but) "a lot of people try to do too many different things and have never stuck to a routine for even a modest amount of time". Believe me, I am not silly enough to think i can create a routine better than coach's wod's, but i would like to know what he has to say about what he wrote in the book. What are the differences in results for each schedule of workout? do those results differ depending on one's current level of fitness? Is one flat out better?or are they accomplishing different goals? these are the questions that it would be cool to know the answers to. Just as it doesn't make sense to reject the Wod's, it doesn't make sense to hold them with so much regard that you don't analyze all the available options. Different strokes for different folks, you know.

[Julekman]

People often have confusion about program in the book compare to wods and I think that next edition of coach new book will clear that. This is not problem for people who participate in sport for a while, but for beginners is hard to recognize what to do. They saw wods but cant do any of them, so they must scale exercises, but offten have many question about it and lots of confusion, and this is the reason why many of them look back for the program in the book. There is nothing wrong with the program in the book to start with, especialy if you are currently weak and you want to build a strength base with somehow easy tempo and clear approach (Yeah, I know, you want full control). That doesnt mean that wod dont have clear approach, but on first sight and without explanation it is hard to get wider view. Whatever you decide, I suggest to look Prerequisites on the forum, don’t rush for example to back lever if you cant do german hang for at least 30-60 sec with ease and cant do “skin the cat†for at least 10 repetion with proper form and so on. Also look for the warm up, and Slizzardman give some great tips about that but also for wods.

[Joshua Naterman]

The basic thing people are saying here, and they are right, is that the WODs are going to be your best bet. You have the book, so you are able to scale things down as much as you need. If you just run the WODs a week behind, you will be able to see exactly how many of us are scaling things.

The big advantage to doing this is that you won't be missing anything. A weekly program just can't cover every movement your body needs with enough volume or intensity to give you the most benefit for your time. Because the WOD is a 28 day cycle, there is time to perform everything that must be done, and this leads to exceptionally good results. In my opinion, if you feel like you need to start off with just 2 rounds, do that! When you are ready, do 3 rounds, then do the full WOD (many are 4 rounds). From there you can start moving through different exercises as your strength and endurance increase.

If there are particular areas you are super weak in we can help you modify certain parts of the WODs to build you up to the point where you can perform them as prescribed.

Bottom line, I think that overall the WODs are much less stress, much more fun, and much more effective than trying to do your own programming. Of course, they are the exact conditioning regimen that Coach's athletes perform, so the effectiveness is no big surprise.

[Neal Winkler]

Obviously workout variation is good but even Ido, who you yourself seem to look up to as well, wrote once briefly about some the benefits of following a regular routine

saying something along the lines of (i'm very much paraphrasing here but) "a lot of people try to do too many different things and have never stuck to a routine for even a modest amount of time".

The WOD is a regular routine. Ido is talking about program hopping.

[Coach Sommer]

The workouts in BtGB are designed to build basic levels of strength in the FSP and FBE only. My original intention with the GB Forum was not to release the GB WODs in their current form, with the subsequent exposure to all of the GB training components, until all of the supporting GB volumes (The Handstand Chronicles, All Muscle No Iron, The Dynamic Physique etc.) had been released. To my mind, this would have greatly eased many of the scaling issues that now occasionally crop up.

However many forum members lobbied for the release of the full GB WOD schedule and hence we find ourselves in our current situation; exposure to the full GB WOD schedule but with a limited selection regarding elements to implement for some of the training components. In retrospect, this has still proven to somewhat advantageous as it exposes everyone to a broad range of training options right from the beginning, but also somewhat more difficult as more direction and supplementation is required as well.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Blairbob]

Most people, if not all people new to BtGB should just do the WOD at start. Much simpler and thorough than anything most people would come up with. Even if they aren't new to gymnastics, they should take a look at them if not a cycle or two to get an idea of what they really are before you start trying to amending them to your own needs.

Bare in mind, even the best homebrew BtGB program made by a user, the Killroy70 program, does not fit the bill like the WOD. It can also be a severe headache trying to include everything into a weekly program besides being very time consuming. I know, I've tried for myself and my gymnasts.

However, doing the WOD pretty much means you have to have the book because even when I have looked at the WOD without my book sometimes, I have needed to call upon my friends with the book to fill me in. This is why I probably never am without it anymore.

[j4b]

In retrospect, this has still proven to somewhat advantageous as it exposes everyone to a broad range of training options right from the beginning...

that AND the WODs are f-ing awesome and epic and perfect, so thank you

[garythenuke]

I am starting the WODs finally. I'll be scaling like crazy, and I'll probably spend an extra hour a day learning what all the moves are and what the proper scaling will be.

I am just getting past being able to do the statics and not be dead from them. My goal was to be able to do the statics for 60 seconds total (not at once) before I hit the WODs. I'm just about there. I'll use the statics as my warmups and then hit the WODs as best as I can from there.

[Mats Trane]

I did the "integrated training" from the book for about a year. I then went to the seminar in Mallorca and have now been doing the Wods for about a month. I have now completed a cycle and the Wods are realy complete!

[Gerald Mangona]

I <3 the WODs. Been working them way scaled down and at low volume for the last two weeks, trying to work out the kinks before I come asking questions. I think I've got it pretty much figured out now, but I have a question on scaling.

Should we:

(1) scale the WODs so that they are relatively easy in the first set and then we get to just before the point of failure in the final sets?

(2) scale the WODs so that they we are barely finishing the first set, and then scale the movements downward so that each set is progressively easier, but just to the point before failure.

In other words, do I stay at the same progressions, making the sets easy in the beginning but max effort at the end?

Or are the sets always at maximum effort to get the prescribed number of reps, but adjusting the progressions easier as we go?

Thx, JM

[Cole Dano]

The general idea is to scale so you can get through the full workout with that scaling.

However one ca use a sliding scale, and ramp an element up or down as required.

I tend to use a mix of each method depending on the day.

[Gerald Mangona]

The general idea is to scale so you can get through the full workout with that scaling.

Cool. That makes sense to me...it just means I'll be scaling down...WWAAAYYY down.

Push-ups on the floor take on a whole new meaning after doing a few consecutive minutes of plank work, support holds on the rings, then throw in an embedded back lever and XR rows to get you winded, then finally, do a 15s L-Sit on the rings to get your chest muscles activated.

So, uh, yeah.

But I do love the WODs, much more interesting, it goes on a 28 day cycle, and it definitely gets my heart pumping too. Hopefully I'll have some exciting progressions as the months go!

Thanks - J

[Longshanks]

I know this would probably get me hung drawn and quartered on this forum but I prefer just doing a simple whole body workout 3 times a week, sticking to the same 8 or so exercises for a whole SSC, as supposed to the WOD's. For one, I'm still quite weak with BW exercises, two it's a massive time saver not having to research scaling exercises all the time, and three I have to monitor volume and work capacity very stringently so I don't get any injury flare ups. Plus by following Coaches giant set models like circuit training I get quicker throughout the cycle so there's another time saver. I work a lot of hours at a hospital so time saving is very important. I'm not saying I never will try them, but it seems to me you need quite a substantial foundation of strength to do the WOD's even with scaling.

[Scott Malin]

The primary thing you need to worry about is getting results that move you injury free through the progressions. I love the wod but I don't force it down my clients throats. You'll also notice Coach has never stated that the wods are the only way we should ever train. Will you benefit from scaling them? yes. But again focus more on the quality of your execution for your workouts.

[Joshua Naterman]

I know this would probably get me hung drawn and quartered on this forum but I prefer just doing a simple whole body workout 3 times a week, sticking to the same 8 or so exercises for a whole SSC, as supposed to the WOD's. For one, I'm still quite weak with BW exercises, two it's a massive time saver not having to research scaling exercises all the time, and three I have to monitor volume and work capacity very stringently so I don't get any injury flare ups. Plus by following Coaches giant set models like circuit training I get quicker throughout the cycle so there's another time saver. I work a lot of hours at a hospital so time saving is very important. I'm not saying I never will try them, but it seems to me you need quite a substantial foundation of strength to do the WOD's even with scaling.

I have to disagree with your last statement more than anything else. Don't let your creativity die on you! if it is a pull WOD you can scale all the way back to foot supported rows and foot supported pull ups or negatives if you need to. For dynamic work, if you can do dynamic foot supported rows that's fine as an early progression but your best results will come from just building your strength to where you can do explosive pull ups and later clapping pull ups. If it's a pressing WOD same thing applies... push ups from the knees or on a wall and wall handstands are accessible to nearly everyone. If you can't do multiplanar yet, don't! Try to break things up into components but if you're on a time crunch just do what you know how to do. Legs are similar. Multidirectional squats and single leg progressions are good places to start. The more motion your body gets exposed to the better, it doesn't have to be for extended periods of time.

You shouldn't need to research scaling more than once a month since you really aren't going to make strength gains of multiple progressions in a month! Once you know where your pulling, pressing, and lower body/core work is you are pretty set.

As far as the health effects go, whatever you can do is better than nothing. Ideally you would be switching stimuli fairly often, which is reasonably well implemented into the WODs. Lateral movements and rotational movements are not as pervasive and should be a part of warm ups anyways, especially for the general population. Gymnasts do so many twists, cartwheels, etc that they get all the movement they need. We, the general population, typically do not.

If you really believe you have to do what you're doing and there isn't time to alter it, that's cool! At least you're getting a good workout! I just think that if you really look at it, you already know what to do for the WODs. You know what your horizontal and vertical press and pull abilities are, and I'm sure you know your legs and core as well. All you do is hit the same planes of motion the WOD asks for. That's all scaling is, you don't have to go nuts trying to flip through the book. Just look at what is being asked for and give it! You also don't need to do all 4 rounds in a time crunch! 2-3 rounds won't be terrible, and sometimes just 1 round is enough. When you work long hours sometimes that's all you have in you, and any more will make you feel like crap. Other times it is therapeutic to do all 4 rounds, but either way you are giving your body what it needs.

[Gavin Strelitz]

Slizz, I hear what you are saying and I think the WOD would be a better solution to a SSC.

I am going to finish my current SSC and then move over to the WODS to get a greater range of exercises, metcon and maximal training etc...and take advantage of the general programming benefits.

My biggest problem is in relation to push/pull days when multiple exercises are involved. E.g the WOD has XR dips followed by Russian dips. Due to my SSC I know what my dipping strength is, but I don't have a feel for combining multiple forms of dips in one session. My concern is injury due to not knowing how to combine multiple push or pull exercises in a single session.

Does that make sense? If so, can you explain how to best approach this? Should I start with just one round?

[Gerald Mangona]

but I don't have a feel for combining multiple forms of dips in one session.

Nothing wrong with starting with one or two sets IMHO. I will tell you this, though, I've found that with the increase in volume, you'll likely going to have to scale down one or two progressions or more. If you're used to doing 3 x 5 XR Dips for your normal work sets, you'll probably be working on PB dips or dips with your feet elevated on a platform for assistance. The quantity of reps gets too high.

A WOD from the first week of february called for you to finish the set with 15 single clap pushups. I can probably normally 3 or 4 but the WOD asks you to do this after 20' of L-Sit walks, 3 HSPUs, and 5 XR Dips. And then 4 sets?!?! I did them on my knees on a 30 degree angle.

You're probably going to scale down a lot at first, but I guess the rotation of the WODs will make sure you hit each exercise type with both low-rep stuff to build strength, higher rep stuff to build endurance, etc. in some kind of systematic cycle. Not sure how it all works, but there's a very consciously designed system of periodic nature of the rep sets so that you hit all modes of all of all exercises in 28 days. I guess that's why Coach is so adamant about scaling the exercise to the rep quantity he specifies.

Like I said, it was pretty humbling for me. I'm curious to see how it ends up for you.

[Coach Sommer]

Due to my SSC I know what my dipping strength is, but I don't have a feel for combining multiple forms of dips in one session.

If you are unable to combine multiple forms of dips into single round, then consider having pushup variations take the place of some of the dip variations.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[David Beckerman]

I only started BtGB training at the start of the year after coming from doing weight training. When I started I followed the WODs but had to scale down to the basics. I followed the idea of what Slizz and others have put and some WODs I had to think whether it was a pulling or pushing day and then adapt the WOD down to rows, dips, pull ups etc. On multi-planar days I broke up the planes. So for example a muscle up becomes a pull up and a dip. Actually initially I was only able to do negative dips and pull ups.

It's hard thinking you can't do the exercises but as the two months have gone on and I've read these boards I find all interesting ways of scaling back. Some of my ideas might not be exactly correct but I try my best and I enjoy a workout that changes all the time. And hey if the my scaling is not quite correct I try not to worry, I am still getting a work out and moving my body around in a space.

Funnily enough I went for a run on a off day and I was thinking about what was the best lesson I've got from swapping from weights to gymnastic exercises. Nothing like some oxygen deprivation to inspire philosophical introspective thought ! I basically found that patience and perseverance was the best lesson I have learnt so far. I am enjoying my time in the WODs and not just moving onto the next exercise but discovering that 1 second where I might get a better hold. Next time it might happen it will be 2 seconds or 1cm closer to doing that muscle up.

Hopefully you enjoy the WODs and you can give your imagination a workout too whilst you have a play with the scaling

Hope no one minds just some thoughts from a newbie