Keto Diet Question

[Philip Chubb]

I have a question about keto diets if anyone has had experience with them. I recently went into fat adaptation and after the first week, felt better than I had in my entire life. And that was only week one! I think carbs weren't so great for me. I only really eat vegetables now. However, I have read that you occasionally need to refeed, or consume a big amount of carbs, every so often to keep hormones in check. Is this true? I can't imagine our ancestors were able to schedule massive refeeds and the idea of trying to control another carb binge is..unsettling. Does anyone have any idea if this is true?

[Nicholas Sortino]

This is not necessary at all. A good friend of mine is zero-carb and has been for over 2 years now I think. She does not eat anything but meat, eggs and butter. Nothing from outside of the animal kingdom, and the only dairy is grass-fed butter. She seems to be in very good health to me and has the energy to work out 4x/week (amateur body builder/figure athelete - whatever that all means).

There is also a whole community of these people online, although a lot of their views somewhat radical and not entirely substantiated, they seem to be in good health. You can find them here.

[Philip Chubb]

Thanks Nick! In this case, abstinence is much easier than moderation and the thought of even trying to control a limited amount of carbs was not pleasant. Happy to know I will be fine without them.

[Uzeeh]

I am also one who doesn't eat anything outside the animal kingdom. Mostly organs (all kinds, like brains, liver, kidneys etc.), fish and venison, with some butter, as well. I have really much energy for workouts and really hard endurance running. Haven't been ill in a long time.

EDIT: Wrong thread for the later part of the post, too much multitasking

[Newguy]

...Mostly organs (all kinds, like brains...

Oooh??? A real live zombie??? With an appetite for brains??? And on the forums as well!!

Who would have guessed!

[Uzeeh]

Brains are really fatty and contain a lot of minerals and vitamins (And I am not going to start eating any multivitamins, if I don't eat vegetables, I eat organs; same micronutrients). Inuits ate them, too, and they lived pretty well. in fact, my whole diet is a replicate of inuits' most wonderful and healthy way of living. Brains are delicious, anyway.

[Newguy]

Relax, it was a joke (Hmm maybe I should get a better sense of humor )

Although just to me the idea of eating brains and kidneys sounds disgusting

[Philip Chubb]

Haha! Actually Newguy, I think I read that before, people saw the meat we eat today as the boring part and the organs as the main course. I love organs myself as well though a steak is just as nice.

[Newguy]

Hmmm I'll stick to my steaks and roasts ect..

[Philip Chubb]

That is probably a better idea. You don't get any benefit out of things you throw up.

[Newguy]

Haha Good point!!!

[kbryk]

Before delving into a real true ketogenic diet please, please read and understand what this diet is.

If you have been doing the keto diet for a week you should feel fatigued and foggy, this is because you are finishing off the remainder of your glycogen stores and beginning the process of your body working off ketones.

I myself have wondered about trying low-carbohydrate/keto diet but a few things that raise red flags for me, the simple fact that your body is now using ketone bodies as energy. To be in full ketosis will take some time, and I know those who have had ketone urine tests and you have to be very-very strict with your diet and it turns out the benefits don't not outweigh the costs.

I would advise against a keto diet and stick with complex carbohydrates and lots of vegetables.

Sorry if I may seem one sided but there are many arguments against a true keto diet.

[Philip Chubb]

That is interesting that you would say that. What would be the cost? The benefits of more energy, losing fat and keeping or increasing muscle mass, and not having to worry about meals going to your fat cells is quite nice. The carb level is also not difficult to work with. All the green veggies you want which makes it really easy. The only thing you really count are fruits or starchier vegetables like sweet potatoes. If it sends you above your carb limit, it probably isn't real food anyway.

[kbryk]

The notion of my body using ketone bodies as energy is worrisome. I haven't forced the whole philosophy and science of Keto to memory but I remember at first the idea was attractive but I eventually came to the conclusion that eating cleanly and conscious will be more effective in the long run.

There is always two sides of the argument and I so happen to be an advocate of complex carb, lean meats and lots of vegetables nutrition rather than the extreme(keto). Of course things like CKD may have its uses and I would suggest you try CKD out.

I'd like to see a log of your diet regimen, because until you reach ketosis you should really be feeling sluggish at least for your first few weeks. And those veggies may be throwing you out of ketosis, and then micronutrients become an issue.

Also to raise another argument is the ancestral view in terms of diet, many will argue for the ancestral view with ideas such as the Warrior diet and I have seen it raised for the Keto diet(which really doesn't have a connection). The simple fact that we have evolved as a species/organism and so have our life styles so we can't compare now to then especially if you are looking at this diet with the idea of efficiency, it wasn't efficient for them to eat just once a day(Warrior Diet) or to just get their hands on meat, the environment called for it.

Sorry I can't have a more educated discussion about the specifics of Keto, but I do know before you hop into it you should get your hands on Lyle McDonald's book, very useful.

[Tarun Suri]

I'd like to see a log of your diet regimen, because until you reach ketosis you should really be feeling sluggish at least for your first few weeks. And those veggies may be throwing you out of ketosis, and then micronutrients become an issue.

The effects are slightly different for everyone.

When I first tried it, for a period of 3 weeks, I experienced no "sluggishness", however it was almost impossible not to sleep at least 10-11 hours a day.

[Philip Chubb]

I would be happy to give you a log but I never kept one. I already have finished the keto adaptation as well. It took about two weeks. And after the first one I began feeling much better. As I said before, I consume unlimited green veggies. Micro nutrients are not an issue. I also take a good multivitamin to seal the deal. There are also plenty of low carb berries to enjoy. As for being knocked out ketosis, you can be knocked out just by chewing a stick of gum. Ketosis isn't what matters. The end result of fat adaptation does.

[Animalonfire]

^Well said. I found I was energetic enough but that I got headaches during the first week or so.

As for the original question, Poliquin has written on it http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Articles ... lp_Yo.aspx

For the time being I'm sticking loosely to a lights out type seasonal approach, so more carbs in the summer than in winter. I've heard of people doing poorly on high carb and low carb approaches over sustained periods of time, so IMO switching every 6 months makes perfect sense. Although I've yet to test out a full cycle, and I'm doing it all unmeasured

[Philip Chubb]

I would enjoy hearing the results of that. A more seasonal approach would be interesting. And fun as well if you enjoy the caveman feeling.