Kung Fu and Gymnastics

[kombatmaster7]

The first time I came to this site I read a couple of

articles and threads and came across somethings

that seemed relatively new and interesting to me, but

a lot of the people on this forum seemed to have it down.

These ideas were:

-It is not necessary to work till failure to progress

-Avoid overworking yourself

-The idea of cycling (I believe thats what it's called) which I think dealt with recouvery and times you should work with heavy, medium, or low loads.

Being from a Martial Arts backround I found this unbelievable that you gymnasts could progress without overworking yourselves or always going to faliure like I did.

I still don't completely understand the ideas I listed above and a lot of things about this site, but I hear that Coach Sommer is comming out with a book about gymnastics when the site is fully functional (what does the "site being fully functional" mean?).

Main questions:

Will doing Kung Fu (pretty damn exhausting) 3x a week affect my recouvery process and will in turn "stunt" my progress with some

of the exercises Coach Sommer reccomends beginners doing?

Any good books you guys reccomend me reading to understand

the best times to workout, progress, achieve greater strength?

Anything else really important that I should know about progressing in strength in gymnastics?

I do have a few more questions regarding kung fu and overworking yourself (which is basically how you feel after a class), but I'll see if anyone even replies to this thread

pce,

-kombat

[Raizen]

I believe Coach Sommer actually has a preferance for putting the hold progressions at the end of his workouts (which are no doubt very hardcore much like your martial arts training), so you should be ok training your martial art and gymnastics skills at the same time, so long as you're smart about it. Aside from Coach's book once it's available, I would also suggest you look into Power To The People by Pavel. It's an excellent resource on strength training, and has extensive information pertaining to some of the topics you're having trouble understanding. It is geared towards barbell training, but you can easily adapt many of the principles to bodyweight strength training, as they both serve as means to the same end. his other book, The Naked Warrior, might also be useful to you. When I started training the planche and front lever holds I was doing Muay Thai classes 3-4 days a week, sometimes more than once a day :twisted: and was never really too burned out for strength training, though I am an odd one. Just start off slow with your strength training focusing on just the essentials at first, and then work your way into progressively harder core training.

[Blairbob]

You could variably train in kung fu and strength train during the same day. I'd reccomend splitting them far enough to recuperate and eat between ( morning/evening ).

This will also depend on how long your kung fu training times are and of course, what type of training ( and style ). Would this include your styles S&C/physical preparation or just warmup/basics/dummy/partner/forms/weapons. I think you see where there is going.

I wouldn't try to do the S&C after Kung fu as you will more than likely be glycogen depleted.

I prefer to do the specific strength early on in a workout ( skill training meets strength ) and the dynamic strength at the end. At times I will do a workout that consists of both dynamic and static strength in a circuit.

[kombatmaster7]

Thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated.

I'll definetly look into the 2 books raizen mentioned.

ANy other important books I should read?

Hey Blairbob, my style is actually Hung Gar

which has a lot of emphasis on those damn

low horse stances !! I never work out

after Kung FU because it's already night time

by the time it's over, so no worries there.

That's a good idea on splitting them apart

because I usually do strength training 1 or 2

hours before Kung Fu.

Best Regards,

-kombat

[Blairbob]

Split as much as your schedule allows. Endurance training before strength is an exercise in futility.

Kudos for the Hung Gar.

[kombatmaster7]

thanks blairbob,

so this thread is almost concluded, but I

have one more question.

Since we deal a lot with the horse stance training (and sometimes

have lion dance practice after class which kills my arms

because I'm head) and we fight--I get really drained

after class.

Now being very fatigued is normal after a class because

I bounce back the next day.

So my endurance training will NOT affect my strength training

progressions?

I was always under the notion that it would affect my recovery times

and screw with my progressions.

And thats pretty much all I have to say, thanks guys.

I'll look into those 2 books you reccomended Raizen.

pce,

-kombat

[Raizen]

I agree with Blairbob, I'd definately put your strength training before your martial arts work if you get wiped out by the end of class normally.

[kombatmaster7]

What do you mean by putting strength training ahead of

martial arts? (taking less MA classes?...)

My Kung Fu schedule goes like this:

Monday: 6:15-8:30 PM

Wednesday: 6:15-8:30 PM

Saturday: 12:45-2:30 PM

What I'm worried about is that the gap between

Monday and Wednesday may not be enough time

to recover or make strength training progressions.

I'm going for my Wednesday class for Kung FU in an hour

and still feel a little fatigued from Monday.

Is that bad?

[Blairbob]

No, I did not mean that you had to train less MA in deference to S&C.

Simply put, do your strength training in the day before your MA training. Don't train for strength after MA training.

It does sound that you would be best suited by developing a lot of work capacity ( training for high reps at lower weight or intensity ) if you are still tired 2 days after. Perhaps you have not ate enough or slept enough since your last MA training session or maybe you are ill. Dunno.

Start your strength training slow and don't train anywhere near failure.

Sometimes we all fatigued a couple of days after workouts simply because we are at an inactive state. Determine your readiness by how you feel after the warmup ( since your body will be turned on in a sense by the blood and hormones pumping ).

To end, I'd say do your strength training at least 4, if not 8 or 12 hours before your MA training. On your weekdays, perhaps that can be before you go to college or school or maybe after you get home ( cutting it close ).

You could also strength train on an off day from MA training ( Tues, Thur, Sun or Sat evening ).

[kombatmaster7]

thanks for the advice blairbob, i'll keep that

in mind.

There's a lot about the human body so I'll definently

read into Raizen's reccomended.

pce,

-kombat

[Felipe A]

Well, if it's Gymnastics and kungfu, Wouldn't that be like tricking?

[Blairbob]

Not necessarily because it could be some modern kung fu like San Soo that is somewhat MMA-like or traditional kung fu like hun gar, animal styles, choy li fut, wing chun, etc.

Most trick'n could be said to have some relation to modern wushu, which is like the Extreme Karate/Kenpo systems that do form competitions that lends itself to open forms and tricks ( and really tasteless outfits and cheap weapons ). Sometimes this is done alongside traditional kung fu but what is considered modern Wushu is not really considered traditional Kung Fu ( though they have similar meanings and characters ).