A silly question on gymnast hypertrophy

[muj]

Hello,

Similar to other athletes, gymnast care more about performance than looks. The goal of their training is to increase strength - bodyweight ratio, so their routines are basically strength training routines that aren't aimed at hypertrophy, but I've seen that gymnast's sport incredibly muscular bodies with no hypertrophy training. Can someone explain this to me?

Thanks

[cathal]

there are two types of hypertrophy-Myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic. people like bodybuilders train for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. this is where the muscle increases in size and mass by increasing the amount of sarcopasmic fluid in the muscle with only slight gains in strength, this is done by training with weights in the 7-15 rep range.

athletes like gymnasts and olympic powerlifters train for maximal strength (1-6 reps) and this results in myofibrillar hypertrophy. myofibrillar hypertrophy is when the amount of fibers in a muscle increases and thus increases maximal strength. increased muscle size from maximal strength training usually takes longer than from bodybuilder training, however the amount of strength gained will be substantially more.

[Ari]

there are two types of hypertrophy-Myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic. people like bodybuilders train for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. this is where the muscle increases in size and mass by increasing the amount of sarcopasmic fluid in the muscle with only slight gains in strength, this is done by training with weights in the 7-15 rep range.

Woah. Some bodybuilders seek to develop sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, some seek to develop myofibrillar hypertrophy, while others seek to develop a combination of the two. They use whatever meets their ends.

Muj, see this thread. It should answer your questions.

[Guest Chiflado]

Uh Ari, I think you forgot to post the link to the thread...

[Raizen]

Haha, look closer Chif.

[Edward Smith]

I've heard that at a point a muscle must eventually get bigger to get stronger

[Guest Chiflado]

Oh... hehe sorry Ari. They should make hyperlinks a different color than the regular text. I know it turns a different color when you mouse over it but still.

[Ari]

I've heard that at a point a muscle must eventually get bigger to get stronger

Eventually that is the case, but I think most people, especially men (more test = more muscle growth), are far, far away from being able to use the potential of their muscles. Gymnasts would be much closer to this point than most people, however.

Check out this:

Her leg development is almost non-existent, yet she's squatting 355lbs. I've never lifted weights because my name is Tyler, only ever done pistols, but that is 1 3/4 of my bodyweight and I'm doubting I'd be able to squat it, despite having legs which I'd say (hope!!!) are more developed than hers.

Sorry about the confusion with the hyperlink - on my browser it is a different colour from that of the text and I'm guessing that is the case for most people.

[George Launchbury]

Hi Ari,

Sorry about the confusion with the hyperlink - on my browser it is a different colour from that of the text and I'm guessing that is the case for most people.

...I think that it's a different colour if your browser deems it a visited link?

Cheers,

George.

[Nic Scheelings]

Hi,

Sorry to get off the topic but i checked out the youtube link and although that was a lot of weight i thought the form was pretty average. There is no way that would have been acceptable in a powerlifting comp. The girl is clearly strong but in a squat suit with a weight belt on i don't really see the point. She would be better of squatting her bodyweight butt to the floor, or better yet front squatting, or even better pistols! Sorry that's my rant

[George Launchbury]

Hi muj,

There seems to be an undertone that gymnastic training is purely strength work (in the vein of 1-5 reps, etc), which I feel is not the case - I would say that gymnastic training is the training necessary to improve gymnastic performance. Granted, for most of us here it's mainly about getting strong enough to perform the movements/skills we so desire ...and since it's not our physiques we're discussing (definitely not mine ), but those of competitive gymnasts, the answer to your question will most likely lie with their training.

Now I'm speculating a little (as a non-gymnast), but I would guess that a) they spend a lot of time working on skills that require a lot of strength, and b) that they also need the endurance to remain strong throughout their event(s). Therefore I would expect the significant strength-endurance component to their training (both intentional and unintentional) to cause an increase in glycogen storage ...and therefore some sarcoplasmic hypertophy in addition to the myofibrillar hypertrophy/neural capacity required for those levels of strength.

I'm sure their aim is not sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, just that it's going to happen through the rigors of hard training.

That should cause some discussion!? :shock:

George.

P.s. Just remembered this great thread by Ido which gives some insight into higher level training:

> Podkatchka - Russian Strength Circuit - http://gymnasticbodies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1508

[Ari]

Demus, I agree, her form was pretty terrible, however, I think squat form in powerlifting comps is generally pretty terrible anyway. I am not a fan of the "must be parallel" rule. The only time I can see squatting to parallel being a relevant exercise is if you are training for powerlifting comps. Why else would you do it? Also, I'm really not down with all the assistive gear. Still, she does demonstrate how strength can be built without significant hypertrophy.

I'd also like to add that front squats are not necessarily better than back squats and that bilateral movements are not necessarily better than unilateral movements. They all have their place (for example, if I remember correctly, the hormonal response to heavy back squats {a bilateral movement} is much more favourable than that to pistols {a unilateral movement}), though harder variations of exercises are normally safer (less overload of connective tissue, joints, the spine etc.).

George, I think you pretty much covered everything that needs to be covered. There's not really much more to say.

Also, about links, is there some sort of protocol to follow to avoid confusion? Should we underline the text of the link or simply always post the actual URL of the link?

[muj]

Thanx a lot for the help guys ... everything is clear now and i rilli appreciate it

[Paul]

My own training is all Myofibrillar hypertrophy and I think as long as you do enough sets and don't go to failure then you can gain a good amount of muscle. I do 4 workouts per week at the moment, two pushing and two pulling movements with two days on, one day off, two days on and weekends off. Each workout is based on three movements and I see how many sets of 2 reps I can complete in 20 minutes for each exercise. That means the workout lasts for 1 hour toal (3x20 minutes). On average I do around 15 sets per 20 minutes. I've gained a good amount of muscle training like this. There's some stuff on t-nation recently along these lines.

Paul.

[Ari]

Actually, I tend to think that myofibrillar hypertrophy's potential is being downplayed unreasonably. I don't really have any proper evidence of myofibrillar hypertrophy having an equal growth potential to that of sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, but I've noticed we don't really have any evidence that sarcoplasmic hypertrophy has a greater growth potential than that of myofibrillar hypertrophy either.