start from scratch

Hi there,

I first introduce myself, I'm italian, 36yo retired rugby player 177cm (5'8) 77kg(172lb) 17% body fat. I used to be fast and powerful, I still retain some of it (last saturday I was electronic timed 11:71 100m) but very prone to injuries, 22years of competitive rugby were tough on my body (here's my nickname)... as someone said before, ballet is a contact sport, rugby is a collision sport...

Anyway, in my wandering for fitness, as I focused myself on recreational motocross lately, I've realized that commercial gyms sucks and crossfit model is not exactly what I was expecting (I don't like to compromise form and quality for quantity - blairbob may remember my post on CF forum...) plus I don't have all the gear and the flexibility to learn the oly lifts (olympic lifts - snatch, clean and jerk). Any crossfitter intersted watch the: "all black in bonsall" vids from the journal.

So here's why I want to stick with this gymnastic strenght program. Flexibility and Strenght are top priorities in my journey to score 3 in all the suggested tests on the great website by steve low (braindx in this forum I guess) and chris salvato

http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2009/12/s ... -athletes/

I scored 3s and 4s on running tests but 1s when not 0s on all others..

I'm at 8 dips on PB (parallel bars) and 7 strict Pull Ups (PU) at the moment, friends think I'm superfit but I don't feel so and just few attempts at Hand Stand (HS) really proved my feelings, though I used to perform well in quadrathlon test back in rugby days. Anyone interested this site is amazing.

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/quad.htm

Now to the point, as I've found Killroy70 original program far too advanced for myself and I don't want to overdo or get injured, I've begun on september 10th with the following:

20' active stretching and mobility (have a look at this site as practical flexibility resource are very scarce indeed http://www.trickstutorials.com/index.ph ... lexibility he's another cool fella)

around 10'' every minute on the minute for 8 minutes of each: (just counting to ten or so in my mind)

A. Hand Stand (HS) - back against wall

B. Planche (PL) - frog stand

C. Front Lever (FL) - tuck

D. Back Lever (BL) - tuck

I just use the KISS principle (keep it simple stupid!), which means that I perform 8 sets for HS then 8 sets PL and so on. It takes me around 40' for the static positions alone.

20' minutes static passive stretching.

I'm planning of doing this 4-5 times a week and to stick to it for at least 8-10 weeks before change anything, as based on the perceived exertion of the moment I find it already quite hard even if it seems so little and not well structured or time efficient on paper. Anyway in case I feel like on the moment and I have time to manage it I'll add an 8 sets of L-sit - PB tuck at the end, always on count to ten on the minute every minute for eight minute.

Scaling the WOD it's a hassle, I'm too far back from it, still, performing them as prescribed, it's another of my long term goals.

Well, I think it's all, any advice or comment is very much welcome.

Alberto.

Ps

Sorry for the long post, I'll be shorter from now on.

You definitely want L sit in there. That is the core of the statics.

Welcome to the forums!

That's a reasonable starting point with the statics, but you should start working the easier FBE as well! If you don't feel like you are ready for the WODs yet then I would suggest a 3-4 day per week split with your FBE.

I think your easiest and most complete program would be

day 1- vertical press, pull and core (higher reps)

day 2- horizontal press, pull and legs(3-5x5 reps)

day 3- vertical press, pull and core (3-5x5 reps)

day 4- horizontal press, pull and legs(higher reps)

I'd keep each workout to 20 sets total or slightly under, so maybe 3 rounds of 5-6 exercises.

This should keep you fairly well-balanced and help you build whatever base you are looking for. I would suggest that when you feel up to it you take either your second strength day or your second higher rep day and replace it with dynamic work, like bounding, clapping push ups or wheels, clapping pull ups, etc. Just make sure you have a decent base before you do that, and as you say keep your scaling slow!

thanks for the nice welcome and the advices slizzardman, I will definitely integrate some FBE as soon as I feel strong enough. I tried killroy70 famous program with both FSP and FBE but it was really too much. Just to sum up 60'' holds for the mentioned FSP takes me 40min.

I wait for improvement on strenght to make more time efficient sessions, maybe in a few weeks I'll be able to accomplish 60'' holds in 2-3 series and ready to follow your tips.

cheers mate.

dude 100 m in 11:71 is pretty awesome 8) good luck with your training

@soren

nice to hear that, hope it means that I'm still athletic and able to master other fitness domain, hopefully.

thanks.

Welcome to the forum!

swarovski said:

thanks for the nice welcome and the advices slizzardman, I will definitely integrate some FBE as soon as I feel strong enough. I tried killroy70 famous program with both FSP and FBE but it was really too much. Just to sum up 60'' holds for the mentioned FSP takes me 40min.

I wait for improvement on strenght to make more time efficient sessions, maybe in a few weeks I'll be able to accomplish 60'' holds in 2-3 series and ready to follow your tips.

cheers mate.

I agree with you Swarovski When i used to finish my FSPs & get to the end of my FBEs on KillRoy derived workout.. I felt like wow! ..i felt really worked out.. even though i'd done so few exercises ... compared to weights etc.

And yes.. I agree FSPs alone take so much time to do.

To help you.. I found something that made that a little time efficient. (Anyone with an Android phone or iPhone / iPod Touch can use this to make a perfect workout scheduler that makes sure you finish in time..and dont rest too long.. or too little and it does so with perfect Audio Cues in all possible places... I need to set up my workout completely on it though.. )

http://www.plainandsimplesoftware.com/P ... Timer.html

slizzardman said:

You definitely want L sit in there. That is the core of the statics.

Welcome to the forums!

That's a reasonable starting point with the statics, but you should start working the easier FBE as well! If you don't feel like you are ready for the WODs yet then I would suggest a 3-4 day per week split with your FBE.

I think your easiest and most complete program would be

day 1- vertical press, pull and core (higher reps)

day 2- horizontal press, pull and legs(3-5x5 reps)

day 3- vertical press, pull and core (3-5x5 reps)

day 4- horizontal press, pull and legs(higher reps)

I'd keep each workout to 20 sets total or slightly under, so maybe 3 rounds of 5-6 exercises.

This should keep you fairly well-balanced and help you build whatever base you are looking for. I would suggest that when you feel up to it you take either your second strength day or your second higher rep day and replace it with dynamic work, like bounding, clapping push ups or wheels, clapping pull ups, etc. Just make sure you have a decent base before you do that, and as you say keep your scaling slow!

I like this. I might cut my KillRoy down to this... since I've been off for a bit. Lets see how much Capacity I can manage.

@cashnburn

thanks for the advice, still some time ago I bought a gymboss for interval training, which at the moment works just fine (even if it reset itself from time to time...) to keep pace with sets and series. I'll keep in mind for future reference.

@mrbrady

thanks for the welcome!

Now, after 4 days of workout some logs.

#WO1. 2010-09-10

Not able to complete all HS series. Lost balance on PL frog stand few times. BL very hard on my bicep tendons. FL seems impossible to pull legs to chest and keeping 'em there.

keeping pace with the timer is very taxing.

#WO2. 2010-09-11

Still unable to kick to HS on every set, I usually skip to the next after 4 failed attempt in the minute. PL my elbows are pretty bent, awful form. BL no more bicep soreness. FL pain on my left shoulder from one of my many old injuries due to a wrong pull movement.

I love to skipping rope, so I integrated 20 DU (double unders) and 20 CC (criss cross) after a couple of minute of ali's style.

#WO3. 2010-09-13

HS missed a couple but generally felt better. PL are making my wrists sore. BL fine. FL still sore left shoulder.

2010-09-12

sport day - motocrossing.

#WO4. 2010-09-14

HS I managed to kick and hold all 8 sets. PL really hard on my wrist as I'm striving to straighten my arms. BL fine. FL left shoulder is making me worry. Able to introduce (a little more time available) L-sit - tuck, completed 8 series.

Some skipping rope and stairs climbing (up & down six storey). Pretty exausted at the end.

I think it's all for now, happy to have some rest tomorrow...

Hope this post will help some other raw beginner just like myself.

After the very good advices from slizz and many many hours spent reading the forum, I came to the conclusion that the beginner routine construction suggested by steve low on his enlightening document

http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2010/03/t ... -training/

that I used as a guideline, was still too advanced for myself... it's gonna be a very long journey to coach WOD as rx'd!!

Maybe one of you experienced guy could take the time to write an ON RAMP BtGB program for real newcomers, because even if I can almost comply with the supposed requirements outilned somewhere on the forum (10 strict Pull Ups, 10 dips PB, 10 hanging leg raises) to start with some basic FSP and FBE, it takes much more than that, I believe some half star rated exercises are still too advanced for adult newcomers.

Ok, now with the practical stuff.

I took PL off as clearly I'm not up to 3*30s L-sit FX yet.

I took BL off as clearly I'm not up to 3*30s German Hang XR yet.

I took FL off as clearly my left shoulder was telling me that I can't handle it yet.

Here's how my program have evolved:

1. Dips PB; Pull Ups; V-ups tuck FX

2. Push Up XR; Row XR; Deck squats FX

3. Dips PB; Pull Ups; V-ups tuck FX

4. Push Up XR; Row XR; Deck squats FX

just as slizzardman suggested

vertical press => dips

vertical pull => pull up

horizontal press => push up

horizontal pull => row

legs => deck squats

core => v-ups

My active stretching warmups are far too long (25-30m) but I think they'll work well at this stage.

here an example: (obviously some are just fantasy names... just ask if you're interested)

circles (neck, shoulders, wrists, hips, knees, ankles) 10*

dowel OH squats 30*, dowel OH lunges 20*, high knee lift 20*

spiderman 10*, mountainclimber 10*, seal 10*, ladder 10*

reverse push ups 3*10s, bridge 3*10s, arch 3*10s, hollow 3*10s

HS FX 8x10s

L-sit tuck 8x10s

German hang bottom hold 8x10s

dips PB 5*5 (push up on horizontal day)

pull ups 5*5 (row on horizontal day)

ring support 5*30s

v-ups tuck 5*10 (deck squats on leg day)

static passive stretching (15-20m)

and now with the WO

#5. 2010-09-16

aimed to do L-sit tuck - german hang as 8 supersets ((8*(10s+10s)) but from 4th serie on I could only hold bottom german hang for 3-4s in order to be able to avoid jumping off XR.

aimed to do dips - pull ups as 5 supersets ((5*(5+5)) but from the second serie on I was able to complete just 3+3 and I had to skip the fifth.

nothing was left for the planned XR support...

Pretty beaten up but happy as it worked well.

Any advice or comment is very much welcome.

#6. 2010-09-17

usual warm up

HS FX 8x10s

L-sit tuck 8x10s

German hang bottom hold 8x(3-5s)

push up XR 5*5 (not very good form)

row XR 5*5

ring support 2*10s (no chance! nothing left in my arms)

deck squats 5*7

static stretching (a bit shorter, it was going to be late)

perceived exertion: 16

I'll rate WO from now on.

[http]

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Perceived Exertion (Borg Rating of Perceived Exertion Scale)

The Borg Rating of Perceived Exertion (RPE) is a way of measuring physical activity intensity level. Perceived exertion is how hard you feel like your body is working. It is based on the physical sensations a person experiences during physical activity, including increased heart rate, increased respiration or breathing rate, increased sweating, and muscle fatigue. Although this is a subjective measure, a person's exertion rating may provide a fairly good estimate of the actual heart rate during physical activity* (Borg, 1998).

Practitioners generally agree that perceived exertion ratings between 12 to 14 on the Borg Scale suggests that physical activity is being performed at a moderate level of intensity. During activity, use the Borg Scale to assign numbers to how you feel (see instructions below). Self-monitoring how hard your body is working can help you adjust the intensity of the activity by speeding up or slowing down your movements.

Through experience of monitoring how your body feels, it will become easier to know when to adjust your intensity. For example, a walker who wants to engage in moderate-intensity activity would aim for a Borg Scale level of "somewhat hard" (12-14). If he describes his muscle fatigue and breathing as "very light" (9 on the Borg Scale) he would want to increase his intensity. On the other hand, if he felt his exertion was "extremely hard" (19 on the Borg Scale) he would need to slow down his movements to achieve the moderate-intensity range.

*A high correlation exists between a person's perceived exertion rating times 10 and the actual heart rate during physical activity; so a person's exertion rating may provide a fairly good estimate of the actual heart rate during activity (Borg, 1998). For example, if a person's rating of perceived exertion (RPE) is 12, then 12 x 10 = 120; so the heart rate should be approximately 120 beats per minute. Note that this calculation is only an approximation of heart rate, and the actual heart rate can vary quite a bit depending on age and physical condition. The Borg Rating of Perceived Exertion is also the preferred method to assess intensity among those individuals who take medications that affect heart rate or pulse.

Instructions for Borg Rating of Perceived Exertion (RPE) Scale

While doing physical activity, we want you to rate your perception of exertion. This feeling should reflect how heavy and strenuous the exercise feels to you, combining all sensations and feelings of physical stress, effort, and fatigue. Do not concern yourself with any one factor such as leg pain or shortness of breath, but try to focus on your total feeling of exertion.

Look at the rating scale below while you are engaging in an activity; it ranges from 6 to 20, where 6 means "no exertion at all" and 20 means "maximal exertion." Choose the number from below that best describes your level of exertion. This will give you a good idea of the intensity level of your activity, and you can use this information to speed up or slow down your movements to reach your desired range.

Try to appraise your feeling of exertion as honestly as possible, without thinking about what the actual physical load is. Your own feeling of effort and exertion is important, not how it compares to other people's. Look at the scales and the expressions and then give a number.

6 No exertion at all

7

Extremely light (7.5)

8

9 Very light

10

11 Light

12

13 Somewhat hard

14

15 Hard (heavy)

16

17 Very hard

18

19 Extremely hard

20 Maximal exertion

9 corresponds to "very light" exercise. For a healthy person, it is like walking slowly at his or her own pace for some minutes

13 on the scale is "somewhat hard" exercise, but it still feels OK to continue.

17 "very hard" is very strenuous. A healthy person can still go on, but he or she really has to push him- or herself. It feels very heavy, and the person is very tired.

19 on the scale is an extremely strenuous exercise level. For most people this is the most strenuous exercise they have ever experienced.

Borg RPE scale

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Never heard of the Borg Scale before, its really interesting. I sure use my own internal scale all the time, and it sounds like its set where Borg wants it.

I will very often ask my students how hard they feel they are working on a scale of 1-10 and it does elicit some useful information.

hey mr brady,

I used to rate my team training session on exertion and enjoyment as well, I'll post that scale for you in the next few days. Hope you'll find it useful.

In case someone find it useful, here's how I used to rate team practice, based on quality and Intensity delivered. Coaches around here are hopeless...

Quality:

A- Squandering

B- Boring

C- Unsatisfying

D- Improvable

E- Fair

F- Enjoyable

G- Cool

H- Exciting

Intensity:

6- No exertion at all

7- Extremely light

8

9- Very light

10

11- Fairly Light

12

13- Somewhat, moderately hard

14

15- Hard (heavy)

16

17- Very hard

18

19 Extremely hard

20 Maximal exertion (Exhaustion)

sunday 2010-09-19

no motocrossing due to yesterday's heavy rain, so I opted for a running WO

10' steady run (to track & field facility)

20' rope (double unders, crisscross, skip, heels,toes)

4X400 under 80s 3' rest each on tartan track.

15' stretching

10' steady run (back home)

perceived exertion: F16

(afterall track running on a nice morning is more enjoyable than working out part at home and part in the garage starting at 5am before work)

#7. monday 2010-09-20

warmup

circles (neck, shoulders, wrists, hips, knees, ankles) 10*

high knee lift 20*, spiderman 10*, mountainclimber 10*, seal 10*, ladder 10*

reverse push ups 3*10s, bridge 3*10s, arch 3*10s, hollow 3*10s

HS FX 8x10s (much stronger)

ring support 8*10s

¦-L-sit tuck 8*10s

¦-German hang bottom hold 8*5s

5kg bar OH full squats 30*, 5kg bar OH lunges 20*

¦-dips PB 5-5-5-4-3

¦-pullups 5-5-4-3-3

v-ups tuck 5*10

static stretching

perceived exertion: E15

I generally feel better then when I started, moving my body around requires less efforts, I finish wo pretty tired but I don't feel sore or exahusted the day after. I'm keeping meals small and loosing weight as well, I'm planning of finishing this introductory mesocycle on 2010-12-10 at 73kg 12%bodyfat, strong and flexible enough then to start with a full FSP-FBE program.

sorry, I've just discovered that attachment features has been disabled. I will upload the workout.jpg somehow.

That's a very reasonable beginning cycle.

slizz, nice to know that I put your advice at work properly, it took me few sessions to figure out a good starting point.

Someone else at my level may find it useful.

thanks once again.

I'm finding it useful. nice journal. I'm new to this so expect I'll be checkin in here and there.

jakaro, you're welcome anytime, I'll keep an eye on your log as well.

last night (monday) I had my first ever training with a gymnastic team (societa' ginnastica lugano). I rather enjoyed it, though I found challenging even the simpliest things. Hope they won't kick me out any time soon as I look pretty much out of place, They don't have any adult classes to enroll so I asked them to let me join the competitive (the only one available) training sessions!!

If this thing will going on I may have to reduce my own planned workout from 4 to 3 or 2 as 4+2+1 sport day really seems to much at the moment. Anyway tonight I'll try to squeeze another workout as I'm so revved up.

as I was too tired to train before work on tuesday morning (sleepless night), I postponed it after work. I wasn't able to finish it all before diner, so I splitted in two parts, with a light diner between.

I'm happy as things are going, without the strains and collisions of competitive rugby on my body, I can feel (and see...) that I'm getting in shape pretty quickly. I've been able to manage 6 training sessions a week so far, without feeling exhausted or overwhelmed, something never happened before with rugby.

Courious to see how far I can get, usually my good form didn't last (or improved) longer than 1or2 months due to injuries. Tonight gym practice!

as for the BtGB workout:

#8. tuesday 2010-09-21

warmup

circles (neck, shoulders, wrists, hips, knees, ankles) 10*

high knee lift 20*, spiderman 10*, mountainclimber 10*, seal 10*, ladder 10*

reverse push ups 3*10s, bridge 3*10s, arch 3*10s, hollow 3*10s

HS FX 8x15-20s

ring support 6*12s

¦-L-sit tuck 8*15s

¦-German hang bottom hold 8*7s

5kg bar OH lunges 30*, 5kg bar OH full squats 30*

¦-push ups XR 5-5-5-5-5 (unable to turn rings outside)

¦-rows XR 5-5-5-5-5

deck squats 5*10 (have to use vigorous arm swing)

static stretching

perceived exertion: E13 (probably 'cause I splitted the session)

wow... I'm training pretty intensively now. Team session last night and BtGB this morning, but as far as I don't feel too tired I think it's ok, my body seems to cope well with this kind of training as I recover quickly.

#9. thursday 2010-09-23

warmup

circles (neck, shoulders, wrists, hips, knees, ankles) 10*

high knee lift 20*, spiderman 10*, mountainclimber 10*, seal 10*, ladder 10*

reverse push ups 3*10s, bridge 3*10s, arch 3*10s, hollow 3*10s

HS FX 8x15-20s

ring support 3*30s

¦-L-sit tuck 8*15s

¦-German hang bottom hold 8*7s

5kg bar OH lunges 30*, 5kg bar OH full squats 30*

¦-dips PB 5-5-5-5-4

¦-pull ups Bar 5-5-5-4-3

v-ups 5*10

static stretching

perceived exertion: E15

had to take a day off on friday, I felt too tired to train in the early morning and I didn't manage time in the evening.

I did workout on saturday morning instead.

#10. saturday 2010-09-25

warmup

circles (neck, shoulders, wrists, hips, knees, ankles) 10*

high knee lift 20*, spiderman 10*, mountainclimber 10*, seal 10*, ladder 10*

reverse push ups 3*10s, bridge 3*10s, arch 3*10s, hollow 3*10s

HS FX 8x10-15s

ring support 3*30s

¦-L-sit tuck 8*15s

¦-German hang bottom hold 8*7s

5kg bar OH lunges 30*, 5kg bar OH full squats 30*

¦-push ups XR 5-5-5-5-5

¦-rows XR 5-5-5-5-5

deck squats 5*10

static stretching

perceived exertion: B15 (I did it because it was in the plan not because I wanted)

sunday I went motocrossing and crashed badly, my right wrist needs some rest. Hope to get back to training soon!!

I skipped monday and tuesday morning training, still I tried to manage monday night team session. Surprisingly I was able to do most of it, so tonight I'll try to start my weekly routine anyway.

last night I did started the weekly schedule, I'm thinking of doing tue-thu-fri-sat instead of mon-tue-thu-fri because of tiredness from mon and wed team practice

#11. tuesday 2010-09-28

warmup

circles (neck, shoulders, wrists, hips, knees, ankles) 10*

high knee lift 20*, spiderman 10*, mountainclimber 10*, seal 10*, ladder 10*

reverse push ups 3*10s, bridge 3*10s, arch 3*10s, hollow 3*10s

HS FX 10x5-10s

ring support 3*30s

¦-L-sit tuck 8*15s

¦-German hang bottom hold 8*7s

5kg bar OH lunges 30*, 5kg bar OH full squats 30*

¦-dips PB 5-5-4-3-3

¦-pull ups HB 5-5-4-3-3

v-ups 5*10

static stretching

perceived exertion: B16 (I felt wery weak)