Time Volume Training

[Jay Guindon]

Anyone know about this? It's effectiveness or legitimateness, if that's a word? I've always had a hard time putting on size, especially in my arms, and I'm starting to get sick of it. I have exceptionally skinny arms despite having a pretty decent level of strength in pulling and pushing exercises. I tried Starting Strength for almost a year, did CrossFit for one and a half, and as you know am a recent convert to gymnastic style training. I'm still skinny as f**k and I think my girlfriend has bigger arms than I do (she has exceptionally big arms for a femal, but still). I've tried eating a lot and I only get fat and my arms still don't grow. I'll probably get chastised for being so concerned with size but I've reached my main goal of being able to tackle everyday random tasks with ease and it would be nice to have some looks to go with that. Any opinions on this and it's implementation with GB type movements would be great.

Time/Volume Training - A Program For Building Mass Even With Bodyweight Exercises!

By Nick Nilsson

This training style is VERY effective for building muscle even with bodyweight

training. It can be inserted into ANY training split...it can be used

as a total program or as a single training day. Powerful stuff!

This past summer, I was stumped…how could I use bodyweight training to build substantial muscle mass using exercises like push-ups where I was able to do 30 to 50+ reps per set!

Enter Time/Volume Training…

This technique allowed me to take exercises where I could do a TON of reps and turn them into effective mass-builders.

Basically, it's kind of a cross between my Compound Exercise Overload training (where you take a weight you can do 6 reps with and do 3 rep sets until you can't get 3 reps anymore, then you drop the weight and keep going - I'll give you a link to that below so you can read more about it) and Escalating Density Training (by Charles Staley - where you take an alloted timeframe and do as many reps as you can within that timeframe).

Time/Volume Training is relatively simple. I'll use back training for my example here (chin-ups, specifically).

For working back, I use a 15 minute block of time (this will vary according to bodypart - use less time for smaller parts).

First, start by doing a set of 3 reps. Then stop and rest 10 seconds. Now do another set of 3 reps. Stop and rest 10 seconds.

Keep going using 3 rep sets and 10 seconds rest until you can't get 3 reps anymore. When you hit this point, begin taking 20 SECONDS rest in between your 3 rep sets.

Keep going using 3 rep sets and 20 seconds rest until you again can't get 3 reps anymore. Then take 30 SECONDS rest in between your 3 rep sets. If you have to increase again, go to 40 seconds, and so on.

Keep going in this fashion until your 15 minutes are up.

It's just that simple! Basically, the idea here is not to go to failure on any of your reps but to manage your fatigue so that you can maximize your training volume (i.e. more reps and sets).

And, because I originally worked up this technique to go with bodyweight training (where you can't change resistance), instead of decreasing the weight (like in Compound Exercise Overload), you will instead just increase the rest periods, which gives your body a bit more time to recover in between sets, allowing you to keep doing sets with the exact same resistance.

But just because it's originally designed for bodyweight training doesn't mean you can't use it with free weights and machines as well - it'll work like a charm for that, too!

You'll find when using this technique with different exercises (especially bodyweight exercises, where some tend to be a bit easier than others), you'll be able to go longer before having to increase rest. For example, when doing chins, you'll probably have to increase rest sooner than you will with push-ups.

But rest assured, even if you can do 50 push-ups, you'll STILL get to a point where you're not able to do 3 reps sets on 10 seconds rest and you'll have to bump up the rest periods.

It's a great way to work bodyweight exercises without resorting to high-rep endurance training. With the 3 rep sets, you're still hitting the power-oriented muscle fibers, which is what allows you to make this type of training work for mass building.

Take a few minutes inbetween bodyparts for recovery.

Here are the time intervals I've been using for this type of training:

Back, Chest and Thighs - 15 minute blocks each

Hamstrings, Shoulders, Biceps, Triceps, Calves and Abs - 10 minute blocks each

I've also changed up some of the bodypart blocks so that I'm actually working 2 bodyparts at once (I did this with abs and calves).

Here's a split I've been using (based on bodyweight training) but you can certainly feel free to come up with your own.

Just be absolutely sure to keep your total workout time to under an hour (I've been shooting for 40 to 50 minutes).

This type of training concept is simple enough where you can simply insert it into whatever your favorite training split is.

My preference is for a 2 day on, 1 day off, 2 day on, 2 days off type of training split, e.g. Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday.

Day 1:

back - 15 minutes of chin-ups - I was using a regular underhand, close grip for these, coming all the way up and down to full extension.

chest - 15 minutes of dips - I was using two chairs with the back facing each other. I would set my hands on the tops of the chair backs and do dips in between the chairs. Works like a charm!

Combination of Calves and Abs - 10 minutes - NO rest in between bodyparts or sets. I would just go straight from one-legged calf raises (5 reps on each leg using no weight) then right into (5 reps on that exercise, too) then back to calves. Because they're such unrelated bodyparts, their getting rest while you're working the others, so you don't need specific rest for them.

Biceps - because I was doing 15 minutes of Chins, biceps already got a lot of work. I would just finish the workout with one set of flexed arm hang.

Total workout time: 45 minutes

Day 2:

Thighs - 15 minutes of Bench Step One Legged Squats - Basically, this exercise is a one-legged squat done standing on a chair or bench. Because you're standing up off the ground, you can drop down a lot further, increasing the overall workload. I also recommend hanging onto something for support. This exercise for this long will really beat the crap out of you.

Hamstrings - nothing for me here - the deep bench step squats were PLENTY of work for the hamstrings, believe me. In a normal split, you would do 10 minutes of hamstring work for this type of Time/Volume training.

Shoulders - 10 minutes of Pike Handstand Push-Ups. This is a great exercise for shoulders - it's a bodyweight exercise, making it very effective for functional strength AND it's easy enough where if you've got decent shoulder strength, you should be able to get good training volume. In that same link above, you'll also find Horizontal Push-Ups, which is an easier version of it.

Triceps - 10 minutes of Close Grip Push-Ups - even though I can normally do about 40 to 50 of these in a row, after about 8 straight minutes on 10 seconds rest, I had to increase to 20 seconds rest. The fatigue catches up to you and you'll really be feeling how effective this training is. I again finished with one set of the Flexed Arm Hang here.

Total Workout Time: 40 minutes

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That's the scoop with Time/Volume Training! Like I mentioned, you can insert this methodology into pretty much any training split and any program. It's one of THE best ways to get a mass-building effect out of bodyweight training (when you can get high reps with an exercise) that I've ever found.

Give it a try in your next workout to test the concept then try a couple of complete workouts with it. Then take the concept with you next time you travel and apply to some bodyweight training. You'll look at the hotel gym (with the stationary bike with no seat and the squeaky hydraulic resistance machines) and Laugh

[Neal Winkler]

Truth #1 - Hypertrophy = progressive increase in tension + sufficient protein + sufficient calories + volume (sufficient fatigue)

Truth #2 - All training systems work for somebody

What is your height/weight?

Have you ever tracked your protein and calories? If so, how long? Which methods did you use (eyeball, weigh, or volume measurement)?

Some people don't get adequate arm development with compound only exercises. Have you tried any isolation training?

How much added weight can you use on chin-ups?

[Jay Guindon]

My height is 5'7" and weight is 152lbs.

I have tracked protein based on measurement from serving size info. i.e I know eggs are about 6 grams of protein so three is 18g, and just added up like that over a day. I go for one gram per pound of bodyweight. Then calories roughly the same way was around 3000/day.

I have not used isolation exercises as the general consensus seems to be they are next to useless and compound exercises are much better for creating real world strength.

I believe my 1RM on chinups is 60lbs if I remember correctly.

[Neal Winkler]

60lbs. for a 1RM at your height and weight is not that strong. Biceps have a very high EMG during pullups. But some people do need direct work for arms too. Maybe that's the case for you.

People who believe that isolation exercises are bad for hypertrophy probably think that hypertrophy is stimulated by systemic factors like acute hormonal response to exercise but it's actually stimulated by LOCAL factors at the muscle itself which is why isolation works too. Also, isolation is bad is just a internet meme. Everything has it's proper place.

Are you trying to put size on your legs too? If so, how much can you squat?

[Rafael David]

Jay, really "60lbs. for a 1RM at your height and weight is not that strong". My height is 5'6'' and weight is 134lbs, my 1RM is 100lbs,but I'm not big, my arm measures only 13in, do not know why ...

[Jay Guindon]

Ok, well it seems I'm not very strong, and I would desire much more hypertrophy. Should I try this approach or just work on getting stronger and the hypertrophy will follow?

I don't need anymore hypertrophy in the legs, I have pretty large legs, making my small upperbody even more awkward. I dunno what my 1rm squat is anymore. I can one leg squat a 70lb kettlebell held at my chest for five reps if that says anything. Maybe that's not strong either but I am definitely satisfied with the size of my legs.

[Rafael David]

dude... do this: http://www.menshealth.com/men/fitness/m ... 0013281eac

you will gain strength and hypertrophy you want. :wink:

[Razz]

I hate those programs claiming to give you a gymnast physique by just using pushups, dips and pullups

[Rafael David]

me too! however, it seems that the guy here does not follow the BtGB ... what can I do? :?

[Neal Winkler]

Ok, well it seems I'm not very strong, and I would desire much more hypertrophy. Should I try this approach or just work on getting stronger and the hypertrophy will follow?

I don't need anymore hypertrophy in the legs, I have pretty large legs, making my small upperbody even more awkward. I dunno what my 1rm squat is anymore. I can one leg squat a 70lb kettlebell held at my chest for five reps if that says anything. Maybe that's not strong either but I am definitely satisfied with the size of my legs.

Let's look at the hypertrophy equation a little differently:

Assuming adequate protein and calorie intake...

Hypertrophy = progressive increase in tension (strength) + fatigue (enough but not too much).

So, if you want to get bigger, you have to increase strength, or increase or decrease fatigue.

Not being strong enough will lead to poor results.

Not enough fatigue will lead to poor results, and overly fatiguing yourself beyond your recovery will lead to poor results.

So, what you need to do, training wise, depends on what is lacking for you. I would say that you need to keep getting stronger. On fatigue, I really don't know. That's a very individual thing, it's something that you have to play around with and figure out what works with your genetics.

The above program you referenced is a program that focuses mainly on the fatigue portion of the equation, although it's possible you could get some strength increase out of it as well. Whether or not it works just depends. If your volume is too low, and it doesn't make you weaker, and the above program represents an increase in volume that is not too much, then it will probably make you bigger. If your volume is too high, and the program doesn't make you weaker, and it represents a lower volume that is still sufficient, then it will make you bigger. But how can I predict beforehand? I cannot because I don't know enough about you and your training history, and even if you told me your recollection might not be accurate.

[Joshua Naterman]

It's a great way to work bodyweight exercises without resorting to high-rep endurance training. With the 3 rep sets, you're still hitting the power-oriented muscle fibers, which is what allows you to make this type of training work for mass building.

Just so you know, that isn't true. Your muscle fibers have never watched Sesame Street... they do not know how to count.

The only way to activate your high threshold fibers is to force your body to create enough force to where those motor units MUST be activated to handle the force. You could do this by dropping as fast as you can and pushing up as fast as you can. THAT would hit higher threshold fibers. There is no such thing as a power-oriented fiber. There are higher and lower force-producing fibers. That's it. SPEED, which is half of the power equation, has nothing to do with the muscle fibers themselves. Speed is all in the nervous system.

The reason this type of training works for mass building, regardless of intensity, is that you quickly run out of Creatine Phosphate and are forcing your muscles to burn glycogen. This type of work runs through quite a lot of glycogen, which forces the body to adapt by making space in the muscle cells to store more glycogen. This is done primarily by adding sarcoplasm, which gives this type of hypertrophy its name: sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. This type of growth has a relatively small impact on strength.

This isn't all bad, because the more room there is in the muscle fiber the easier it is for more myofibrils, which are the contractile proteins, to be added if you do strength work as well. The training you're doing also causes increased capillarization, which means you'll have better bloodflow and therefore faster healing. Finally, to deal with the waste products your body will put more mitochondria in the muscle cells, which help process lactic acid and pyruvate. That's a good thing, they are energy sources as well.

What you are doing will make you bigger, but not much stronger. To get stronger you're going to need to lift heavy one day a week per muscle group. How you do this is up to you. I'd suggest one upper body day and one lower body day to minimize fatigue.

Your goals will be best served by following the WODs here and doing specific weighted strength work once every 7-10 days. The WODs will take you through maximal days and dynamic days for upper body, lower body and core. Followed to the letter and properly scaled for your ability you will be training all of your energy systems and will be building strength on a regular basis, while adding whatever sarcoplasm you need, so you will get the size you NEED to do the WODs. You need to look at the pictures of Coach's athletes again. They are all in fantastic shape and have excellently proportioned bodies. This isn't an accident!

[Joshua Naterman]

60lbs. for a 1RM at your height and weight is not that strong. Biceps have a very high EMG during pullups. But some people do need direct work for arms too. Maybe that's the case for you.

Biceps don't work all that hard during pull ups, because they are primarily a forearm supinator, and only perform significant elbow flexion at the very top of the ROM. On top of that, the biceps are simply not in a good position to do much work during regular pull ups. Chin ups work the biceps much harder. I WILL say that when I first started working out, wide grip pull ups made my biceps get HUGE! I was mostly concentrating on looks, and was there fore doing the top 50-60% of the ROM, which is where the biceps work the hardest in the wide grips.

So, if Jay's looking for bigger biceps he should be working on chin ups and wide pull ups, at least in the pull up category. Regular and close grip won't give him what he wants on his arms, though they'll do more for his back and forearms. This is why I end up recommending that people use all the basic grips, they literally work different areas. Sigh...

People who believe that isolation exercises are bad for hypertrophy probably think that hypertrophy is stimulated by systemic factors like acute hormonal response to exercise but it's actually stimulated by LOCAL factors at the muscle itself which is why isolation works too. Also, isolation is bad is just a internet meme. Everything has it's proper place.

So true. Doing more isolation work than compound work is bad for developing the ability to handle real world random tasks when compared to doing lots of compound work and fairly little isolation work, but for growing big muscles they are both powerful tools.

Besides, it's hard to do true isolation... you really CAN'T without a machine or e-stim. Jay should look into thick bar bicep curls once a week to beef up his upper arms and forearms. Although I still firmly believe he'll get what he wants by eating well, sticking to the WODs, and doing some specific weighted work once every 7-10 days for the muscle groups he is lacking on.

The WODs are literally just as sophisticated as the most advanced and cutting edge complex training that elite athletes use. The format is literally exactly the same. Coach is giving us FOR FREE a training template that most athletes have to relocate AND pay money to have access to. Why everyone on here isn't wetting their pants over this is beyond me!

[Jay Guindon]

Basically the only reason I'm not "wetting my pants" is that I don't have the space to do everything. I don't have anywhere to do shuttle runs that is also close to my rings and pull up bar. I don't have a sled to sprint with and even if I did, again, I have no where to use it and have access to my rings and bar. I don't have rope for the rope climb stuff. I'm lucky enough I found a place to mount my rings. If all that was different I would for sure follow the GB WODs but right now I just don't have the space or all of the equipment to work with. Therefore I'm trying to find something that works with my space and limited equipment, and find something else to add with my strength program so I can also gain some mass.

In the next 4-6 months I'll be moving and will have somewhere I can build everything I need like a sled, rope, paralell bars and have all the space to run and I am planning on following the GB WODs at that time, until then I am in search of a temporary solution.

Slizzardman, again, thanks for the thorough and very helpful response, and trianglechoke too, I think I have enough info to fill in the blanks until I can get onto the GB WODs.

Also, I think there may have been some confusion from the original post. All that stuff about body part splits and day 1 is this and day 2 is that, etc. is not my writing that is all still from the article by Nick Nilsson. My comments are the first paragraph only, everything after the line "Time Volume Training" is his. I do follow BtGB but I do the 12-10-8-6 pyramid style coach outlines in the book for those who need more hypertrophy, pairing push/pull and legs/core just as he suggests in the book. I was asking about this approach because it reperesents even more volume which is what I thought might be missing for me. I've been doing the pyramid style for six months and have seen growth in my upper arms by only a quarter of an inch. Therefore I wondered if more volume might be the missing link for me.

[Neal Winkler]

60lbs. for a 1RM at your height and weight is not that strong. Biceps have a very high EMG during pullups. But some people do need direct work for arms too. Maybe that's the case for you.

Biceps don't work all that hard during pull ups, because they are primarily a forearm supinator, and only perform significant elbow flexion at the very top of the ROM. On top of that, the biceps are simply not in a good position to do much work during regular pull ups. Chin ups work the biceps much harder. I WILL say that when I first started working out, wide grip pull ups made my biceps get HUGE! I was mostly concentrating on looks, and was there fore doing the top 50-60% of the ROM, which is where the biceps work the hardest in the wide grips.

I wouldn't say that biceps don't work hard during pullups, just not as much as chin ups, and the difference isn't that big. Bret Contreras has found this in his EMG studies. He also found that wide grip pullups work biceps less than regular width. If you have some peer-reviewed EMG studies that look at the difference please post the links, I'd like to take a look.

[Joshua Naterman]

Really!? Crazy!

I seriously didn't see my biceps getting bigger until I did mostly wide grip pull ups. I don't have any EMG data on what I am saying about the wide grips, honestly. Just my personal experience. That is truly strange, but I can't argue with EMG unless I find a good body of contrary evidence showing different EMG results!

Perhaps the discrepancey lies in my form? I wasn't using my back much.

[Neal Winkler]

Just looked at the article again. He never looked at close pronated grip, just parallel (close and wide), supinated, and wide pronated. Never mind.

[Yeti]

Hey man, just wondering if you're still having problems with gaining muscle mass. I got some tips that have helped me through the years. Also the whole time/volume training I find it to be effective. I haven't gotten the building the gymnastic body book yet but I've been a bodyweight only athlete for over a year now and I've gained sufficient strength and size and keep gaining. I added Nick's volume training just recently and it helps with my bodyweight program I already have. Try adding more complex carbohydrates to your diet. Up the oatmeal and up the whole milk. And if you need to shed the fat do some HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) and the best HIIT protocol I know only takes four minutes and its the Tabata.