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Edward Smith

is the warrior diet good for gymnastics

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Edward Smith

of course by ori hofmekler's description it is the way we were meant to eat, i have nothing against him but does every/anyone think it is all he says it is? does it live up to his description? is it good for gymnastics?

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Wade

Hey Ed x

I have posted some comments under the 'general guide to nutrition' Post, about the Warrior diet.

wade

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Robb Wolf

That general write up is pretty good. Try to get things moving towards protein, veggies and good fats. If you want further refinement star weighing and measuring in some kind of format like the Zone or cyclic low carb. THEN you might think about some of the intermittent fasting approaches like the Warrior diet.

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Guest Ido Portal

I have to say, I'm not a big fan of the warrior diet. Even though it comes from a fellow countryman...

Some of the problems I have with Ori's plan:

1.It is certainly not optimal for maximal performance. Even psychologicly - you walk around hungry and deprived half a day and too full to move the other half. You may feel good for 10 min in between both states... If this is a warrior diet, I sure hope your war falls during those 10 min.

2.Insulin is still a factor here - and it will skyrocket even if you eat only veggies and meat in your one meal - because you are going to eat too much. Research shows a large meal have a big glycmic response even if the food has a low glycmic load. After a couple of hours of fasting, your blood sugar will go down and here you go on top of the insulin roler coaster.

3.Because of reason 2, people wont eat the good stuff in their only meal of the day. Most people will feel deprived and eat anything in sight, and especialy those items that will allow them to increase their low blood sugar - from a day of fasting, and FAST.

If you think paleolithic people ate this way, check your science again. I do not believe this to be true, not when they had a choice. Also, when your only options are natural foods that you have to hunt, or gather from the ground, you can make a lot less mistakes than in our modern 'enviourment'. Believe me, Fred Flingstone had it easy.

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kbryk

I'm going to try the Warrior Diet for awhile, seems like it will be pretty hard, and Ido for your insulin factor, I think Ori meant that you should have only one insulin spike and that is your one true meal a day, and that your body is very responsive at that time and it will roller coaster but not as much as peoples normals diets do a day. The only thing I truly dislike about Ori is that he relates it all to animals, and he thinks we are all Spartans at heart(seeing how Sparta is the new hip method of training for fitness, lol). Other than that most of his stuff makes sense in theory, like most diets, but I hope it actaully fuels me through the day.

All I know is this diet is going to be different. Of course I am going to make a few adjustments, I need my protein so I picked up a bag of Whey to help me with my energy woes in the morning, and maybe munch on a few carbs. to give me more added energy in the morning.

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Raizen

Hey kbryk, how long do you intend to practice this diet for? Keep me posted on how it affects you, I'm curious as to its effectiveness.

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Robb Wolf

Ido and i have talked at length about intermittent fasting. I THINK one might get some life extension benefits from IF but no one really knows. I do find it difficult to meet nutritional needs for hard training athletes. Establish a sound, multi-meal per day paleo type diet. Get your performance screaming...then, maybe tinker with some of this other stuff.

Ido has stunning levels of performance and he is NOT a fan of IF...might be something to be learned from that.

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braindx

Caloric restriction in theory should promote longer life. This is evident in most mammals we can experiment with and control caloric intake. It *should* apply to humans as well but I don't know if anyone wants to do a real long running study like that. Generally speaking though the people that live the longest don't eat a lot though (or it may be a product of slower metabolism). Wouild be interesting at least if they took a survey of like nonagenarians.

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Coach Sommer

Ido, would you mind sharing your nutritional plan with us? I, for one, would be very interested.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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Guest Ido Portal

My nutritional plan in a nutshell:

A. Eat like a caveman.

B. If it flies, swims, runs or is green - eat it.

C. Eat frequently: 5-9 meals a day, every 2 to 3.5 hours during waking time.

D. Never go hungry. (difficult)

E. Never reach full. (difficult)

F. Move beginners in the nutritional game from specific (a sample menu) to the general. (rules to follow and constructing their own meals)

H. Read and listen to Jonny Bowden, dr. Eric Serrano, dr. Mauro di Pasquale, Charles Poliquin, Loren Cordain, Robb Wolf.

I. There are essential fats, essential Amino Acids (Protein). There is no such thing as essential Carbohydrates. Living without protein and/or fat is impossible in the long run, living with no carbs is an historical fact.

J. Untill you go through the initial metabolic shift, dont come complaining. Things will get better, push through!

I can go on, let me know if you want more.

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Edward Smith

ido what do you mean by eat like a caveman? If it flies, swims, runs or is green - eat it?

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Guest Ido Portal

Yes.

The human race is estimated at ~2.4 million. (it is debatable, since - how do you define human is in question here)

50,000 years ago, we were all living in Africa.

30,000 years ago races were created.

10,000 years ago agriculture started.

100 years ago Mcdonalds started.

The farther back you go, the better. Eat like 5,000 years ago humans ate, you are better than eating by todays standards, but go before agriculture and you are realy taking it up a notch.

You cant go wrong with meat, sea products and fish, eggs, veggies and some fruits, nuts and seeds.

Some people tolerate neolithic carbs better, some can handle dairy, soy and large quantities of fruit, but with meat and veggies I havnt seen anyone, in years of nutritional counseling, having problems.

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Coach Sommer

Ido,

Excellent, that is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you.

If I am understanding correctly, you are recommending paleo "snacking" every two to 3.5 hours. I use the word snacking rather than meal, as snacking to me implies a small comfortable portion, rather than the much larger portions that I am used to with the traditional 3 "meals" a day.

Would you mind providing a sample menu of how such an approach would be implemented? Is the amount of preparation and fuss that much more with so many more small meals?

One of the benefits of IF that I had found for a busy lifestyle, was the drastic reduction in meal planning and cooking required. However, I did notice the drop in performance that you had previously noted. Is there a happy medium?

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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kbryk

Yes unfortunately I couldn't last more than 4 days on the warrior diet, I need my wonderful carbs. at least 2 times a day, now I stick to something that seems align to my level of activity and such.

Morning:Some type of fruit, apple usually sometimes banana what ever is fresh at school or at my house. And the days I hit up the weight room, since we do that every other day in P.E., I'll have a protein drink or something of that sort.

PE: I also eat another apple after P.E, I want something in my stomach when I take my multivitamin, fish oil, and all my other little stuff. I grab a gatorade in school for P.E.

Lunch: What ever they are serving at school, I try to eat light, but everyone always ends up offering me their left overs, which is nice, but also releases my inner pig, sometimes I buy another gatorade or use my bottle and fill it up with water. I have about 5 gatorade bottles full of water through the day.

Before gymnastics: Gymnastics is usually 45 minutes after school, I have a bottle of water along with some fruit, I'm beginning to love fruit more and more, thats one thing Ori was correct about, you begin to love this stuff.

Dinner: I pig out many of the times, but I never forget to my veggies first, then meat then carbs. since Ori suggested that.

This diet is perfect for me, it isn't hard to follow and it gives me what I need so I'm not fasting for food by 5 p.m.

Oh and to stay on topic, Ido I would like to see a diet plan, to maybe see if it reflects some of my stuff, or things I could change.

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Edward Smith

i sort of road tested the warrior diet on the summer holidas (christmas holidays) for about 2 weeks and it seemed fine, i use the words road tested as i don't actually have the book but ori's webite has enough info to get a good idea of it. anyway once school started again (one and a half weeks) it seemed a lot harder to maintain and i lost concentration and energy.

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George Launchbury

I totally agree with Ido ...you do have to push through it, especially if getting used to IF as well as Paleo. Some people refer to it as becoming "fat adapted" ...i.e. the process of switching fuels. It sucks.

I have been eating Paleo for a while now, and using a random IF protocol ...i.e. if there's nothing healthy to eat, or I don't have time ...I don't eat. Every couple of weeks I actually skip most of the day. I always train when I am hungry, and wait an hour after before eating. There's a lot of documented evidence kicking around that reports the many benefits of Intermittent Fasting, and in all aspects of health, not just from a weightloss/performance standpoint.

I like to think that "Hungry is now my friend". I believe that we often forget what hungry is like, and how to tell it apart from feeling thirsty or "nice" hungry! :) I personally feel a lot sharper and switched on when IF'ing - even compared to Paleo alone. I also agree that it is not for everybody, although probably more for lifestyle than purely evolutionary reasons.

Ido ...I assume (and forgive me if I'm wrong) that you sound as though you are a full-time trainer? If so, your activity levels, and intake needs, would differ greatly to mine (I am a desk-jockey). Cave-Ido would be expending more energy than me, but have more kills/foraged food to in order to support that. Cave-George would only go out when starving and then sit on his jacksy until he was starving again! :)

I also naturally tend to snack instead of eating large meals ...but oddly, I tend not to feel like eating veggies alongside protein/fat!? I guess I end up with "animal meals" and "veggie meals". Some days I don't feel like veggies at all, and some days I don't feel like meat/fish at all. Weird. I guess that the body tells you want you need, if you're prepared to listen (and quit the carbs).

I have experienced nearly none of the illness my wife and kids have had over the winter, I am losing fat, gaining muscle and strength. I have plenty of energy. With no breakfast I was able to run (no walking) a 10 mile charity race a while ago (1:34:10) with no running training at least 6 months prior to event (I am not a runner, I believe it's bad for you). I was not winded at any point, but my legs didn't forgive me for a week!

Cheers,

George.

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Guest Ido Portal

Sample Menu

Meal 1: Organic-omega-3 enriched eggs, a handfull of almons, cup of green tea

Meal 2: Organic beef jerky with no additivies, spinach salad with a bit of olive oil, lemon and balsamic vineger, water with a dash of lemon and mint leaves for taste

Meal 3: Wild salmon steak with a side dish of steamed brocoli sparkled with some red chili pepper flakes, a small organic espresso coffee (you read it right)

Meal 4: Post workout shake consisting of: Whey protein isolate, glutamine, glycine

Meal 5: Grass fed beef steak with a side dish of wild mushroom soup (Just a variety of fresh and dried mushrooms, some chili, spices and water), a cup of white tea

Meal 6: Organic Cottage cheese (unless you have severe dairy issues) mixed with a bit of Riccota cheese, half a cup of blueberries, and sweetend with stevia

This meal plan is only an example, though no quantities are provided, it will vary from person to person.

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Edward Smith

i've been re-reading all the posts in this topic and thought I'd report my diet at the moment.

It's pretty much a small breakfast of some toast(either soy and linseed, rye or wholegrain) sometimes cereal something like weet-bix. maybe an egg on toast or something healthy.

Throughput the day I snack onsome fruit and nuts (genrally two bananas, two apples and some almonds_ pretty much every 75 minutes (thats how long my classes are :shock: ) on about one or two fruits and some nuts. i feel good through school, I feel sharp and i can concentrate, i feel a little hungry but in a good way.

when i get home I tend to snack on nuts and maybe have a tuna sandwhich with tomato and lettuce. then dinner is whatever mum or dad cook's :D which can vary greatly it's generally a healthy main with the side dish varying from salad to chips (i eat little of these). Hardly ever dessert and if we do have it it's something like a block of chocolate shared between the family.

Pretty much I just want Ido's or even Robb Wolf's (not that I value your opion any less) opions, ideas or improvements on this.

Ed

owww and also i wanted ask Robb, Ido or both your opions on full style paleo (mainly completely cutting out grains and such) is it a good idea, personal preference or perhaps just cutting down on them? and dairy products? are they ok or bad or depends?

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Shoeless

Hey guys i know im new here but ive been on the warrior diet since oct 07.

The first week was the worst head aches and a lil nausea.BUT After that i started getting more energy and felt fantastic.After the inital few weeks your not as hungry during the day time.Im a active hiker and i can hike all day wo any problems from not eating.It just gives me more energy.For food I vary my intake.

Like Ido said if its meat or green ill eat it.Some nights ill stuff myself other nights ill just eat a little.Likewise some nights ill eat only meats no vegies other nights just veggies and some nights ill mix them both.

Im a huge fan of warrior diet.I dont follow it to the tee though. Since cutting most carbs out and eatting once a day ive lost 21 lbs gained in energy/stamina and my headaches went away.

This is just my intake on the warrior diet.

ps if i do workout in the morning or noon then yes i do eat post workout protien and snack the rest of the day.Btw im 6.1 ft weigh 204

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Edward Smith

hi Shoeless,

Do you feel the post-workout protein really aids in recovery?

I'm glad you gave your two cents it's just no-one on this forum has really tried it, so it brings another perspective.

Ed

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Shoeless

My post recovery meal is always raw goat milk.15-30min after workout.Yes i definatly can tell if i dont drink it right after the workout the next day.I feel slugish.But i also think that has allot to do with what i eat that night to.

If i dont eat for 1-3 hrs after my workout but still get the right foods then i dont really feel different.With enough water ive went 3 days on a hike wo food.But lemme say that ive been doin this for awhile also so im used to it.I fast on a very regular basis.

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Ortprod

Hey guys,

Thought I might contribute here.

I was a bit surprised to see the warrior diet mentioned here but, since a lot of us spawned off of dragon door, I guess it makes sense.

I have been doing the warrior diet for about 2.5 years now... well at least my own variation. The first 2 months I did nothing but water during the day and I dropped about 10 lbs over time, not that this was my goal. I had been doing 6 "meals" a day before this and I got tired of spending so much money and relying on food all the time so it was a nice change. I was also 230lbs before I switched to 6 meals a day. I dropped to 200lbs doing 6 meals and down to 178lbs the first time on the warrior diet. I am 5'6" by the way.

Right now I am at a point where I pretty much get a protein shake or fruit at around noon time, wait till im hungry again and then have which ever I didn't have the first time (which is depends on if I went shopping or not) and then wait till around 7 or 8 to have dinner.

Dinner is a big salad (14-16oz, hummus for dressing, a few beans (pinto), peppers, feta cheese sometimes, little olive oil or avacado. I then have about 2 lbs of chicken (sometimes more) and then if I am hungry I will have some oats or other carbs. Late night snack is another shake with my multi-v, calcium, glucosamine and EFA pills. I also have some nuts like cashews at this time.

I have done many variations of this kind of diet and I have found what tends to make me fat and most of the time try to stay away from it, lol.

OH, and I also take a preworkout supplement (superpump right now).

I have had some side effects from not eating my meal till later (around midnight was the worst night cause I had to work late) but its to be expected that when you workout hard you must eat and I simply didn't eat enough solid food. There is big difference by the way, at least from what I had found. For a few days I ate all fruit during the day and discovered that.... most of it "left" quite quickly when I didn't have anything else with it. My take on juice is this: juice is a lot of sugar and if you don't have pulp to fill you up you may end up eating too much too quickly (sugar that is). How many apples can you eat compared to how many juice boxes can you glug down?

I would say post workout meal is the most important and you NEED protein from what I have seen between my own training and my clients (I am a personal trainer). I have noticed that people that have basically starved themselves tend to recover very slowly and don't adapt as fast. I don't know if it is ONLY from this but this is what I have noticed. Even if you just have a good meal after you train instead of just a shake or some supplement, just make sure you don't starve because you will be just waiting for your body to collapse.

Hope this helps. Sorry if I blabbed too much.

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StevenL

In my own opinion and from my own personal experience, the Warrior Diet is great. I never feel hungry of deprived during the day, at least not to the point where my performance suffers. The Warrior Diet isn't really about having NOTHING but water all day. You must read the book to fully understand it. I will frequently have a bowl of blueberries or some fresh carrot/apple/ginger juice or anything else from the fruit/vegetable category. The main idea is that when you actually have a "meal", it is once a day and at night, usually about 2 hours before bedtime. Also, if you exercise intensely(as I'm sure all of us do here), you are to have a recovery meal consisting of protein and carbohydrates(eggs and oatmeal, etc.) immediately following your workout. Ori's recommendations for food choices are phenomenal. The main meal is to begin with a large green salad or occasionally some tropical fruit(mangoes and the like). Next, you eat your protein, followed by fats(usually nuts), and finally carbs(brown rice, oatmeal, sweet potato, etc.), which are optional. I feel great on the Warrior Diet and it keeps my weight normal. I haven't gained a pound or lost a pound since on it, and I am usually prone to fluctuations in weight. If you have any questions on it, I highly suggest you buy the book.

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Blairbob

Interesting, Ido. I really enjoyed reading your meal plan. Mine is similar with the inclusion of a lot of whole milk, because I am poor and it's easy.. I will be switching to grass fed, hopefully from a cow share or local dairy farmer when I can afford it and figure out how to transport ( currently riding a bike around, getting a car within a few days ).

Now, I wonder, if a girl I hope to start dating realizes how I eat and will not laugh or go into shock. Most of my friends and family think I'm nutty when I tell them what I eat. I basically see meat, eat it besides some fruit, veggies, fish oil and lots of milk.

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venobre

there's something i dont understand...

How can Ido maintain such a bodymass with such a diet cause even if ido didn't talk about quantities his sample menu seems to be low on calories. since ido is pretty muscular with big arms,shoulders and legs i really dont understand how he can keep his muscles with such a low calories diet...

any ideas would be great, thanks

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