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Crimsoncross

Chest pain from ring supports

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Sternford

Thanks! I confuse easily, especially in this area.

You WILL need to do similar work for your scapular retractors to balance out these two movements

Would this be something like a similar movement to a chest flye but going behind your back?

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Cole Dano

I think we all confuse easy when it comes to our own programing, to close to the subject i guess.

I would think pull downs, i do them therapeutically with a band, its also one of Ido's stability series.

I do the reverse flys this way to.

Keep the resistance where you can do them with straight arms.

One other nice one is the scapular fly, done like a regular fly but 'pinching' the shoulder blades together during the full movement, i really like this one.

Still don't let this keep you from forgetting the full range of motion, you can take some cues from Ido's series which is a great starting point, the more i do it, the more new ways i find to work complementary variations. This can be done with bands or light dumb-bells.

I'm sure our man Slizz will flesh this out more....

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Joshua Naterman

All of that is good, I don't worry about trying to do a duplicate movement in reverse so much as I try to do specific retraction if I am doing a lot of protraction elements like most presses are. I prefer seated rows, since that's the easiest way for me to control the retraction. I've done leaning XR body rows, cable rows, dumbbell rows, etc. I don't worry about full ROM, I just do full scapular ROM. I protract fully and then retract fully. I pretty much never go over 120 lbs on that. For me, that is really light, I can easily do 10 proper bent over rows with 225 on a barbell, but that won't help here. The pull downs are good too, I like the seated rows because I can change my body angle to simulate pull downs, straight rows, and a somewhat more upright row all in one set. 10, 10, 10 for me usually. I like how that feels, so I usually hit that twice a week and then do something else for the other two sessions weekly.

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Sternford

Oh, I just remembered. Should I do german hangs or could they make things worse

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Joshua Naterman

That really depends on your personal injury, it is certainly possible for German hangs to be too much right now.

If you are worried about it, just wait a month of full-blown rehab before trying them. If you think it's worth testing then I suggest being cautious and spotting yourself with your feet, and making progress slowly in terms of reducing the foot spot. Get to as vertical a hang as possible before reducing the foot spot.

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Crimsoncross

Hey,

The pain is almost gone right now! Now I have to turn really hard to the left to feel it and what I feel is nothing like before, it's very light.

What happened was that I took an entire month of not exercising at all, I could have done other things that weren't dips and stuff but I didn't want to.

Today it's been a month since I last did a workout. I've done some things here or there but it barely counts as anything, because it wasn't a workout and it was nothing hard or serious. It didn't involve the chest or the affected area either.

When I was close to the 3rd week I started to really notice that the pain was gone and I barely felt it, so I have been like this for a week maybe.

Now I don't know how to proceed though. I don't know if getting back on the rings will bring it back. And I don't know if exercising again will bring it back as well.

For sure I'd like to be able to do the Iron Cross one day, but now I'm scared.

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Joshua Naterman

Take your time and start out on parallel bars. No dips, just supports. Start off with maybe a 10 second support hold and do that 2-4 times each week. Every week or two you should be ok adding in 5 seconds on your support holds, and before you know it you'll be doing 45-50s supports. At that point it would be appropriate to start working on dips and perhaps some static stretches at the bottom of the dip. Again that would be starting off with very low hold times. I did this a while ago and it really goes a long way towards conditioning the chest and shoulders. If you rush through your recovery you will just get hurt all over again.

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Crimsoncross

No dips? Jeez. The first time I got this back in May dips actually helped.

You really think doing PB dips will bring the pain back?

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Joshua Naterman

No idea. I figured you're tired of getting hurt and that you figured out by now that jumping back in too soon is going to cause problems. There is no definitive answer to that question, but if you are tired of getting hurt you will just build up to a 60s PB support and maintain that for a few weeks once you have it, and then start doing PB dips. I would personally recommend starting bottom of dip position static stretches once you have that 60s support hold for a few weeks, and building up to at least 60s each day, and to maintain that for about a year. You could do more hold time, but that can be time consuming and is completely up to you.

You can rush back into things if it makes you happy, but if you're finally ready to get this behind you then you should follow the advice I have given. I follow the very same advice, and I figure if it's good enough for me then it's good enough for you, but in the end you will make your own decision.

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Crimsoncross

Well, I didn't get this thing because of dips, and they actually helped when I got it, but you may be right.

I actually have no experience of jumping in too soon and getting wrecked because this is the first time I actually take a "break" from working out because of an injury (I've taken breaks from playing tennis and soccer because of injuries but that's something else), so I don't know if jumping back in would do something. But then again what is to "jump in too soon" anyways?

I obviously won't be doing the same reps/times as before. I figure I would take my max time of each static I was doing and the same with the FBE's and go from there (Not to start working with the max I get from that obviously! But to cut in half what I get from the FSP's and something else for the FBE's). Wouldn't that be alright?

I don't know how much I can hold a PB hold, I've never tried that. I'll do that tomorrow.

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Joshua Naterman

I would try it, and realistically I think that if you get to 20s without feeling anything that will be a good place to stop even if you feel strong. 2-3 sets of 20s would be really good. If that doesn't bother you for a week increase it by 5s, and do that every week or two until you're doing 40-45s holds. At that point dips should really be a pretty good idea. Just don't try and max out. 3-5 will probably be a good place to start, I like to be cautious and add a rep every week or two.

I don't know what too soon is, but I can guess that dips are too much right now. You will get too confident and push too hard, I think. I know I probably would. Some of this is guarding against your own excitement at being able to work out with dips again. I'm dealing with the same thing with my elbows and pull ups/muscle ups. My forearm muscles and tendons are still healing from all the muscling up in early September, so it's the waiting game for me as well. That's why, for now, I'm just focusing on building up my volume with easier stuff.

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Crimsoncross
I would try it, and realistically I think that if you get to 20s without feeling anything that will be a good place to stop even if you feel strong. 2-3 sets of 20s would be really good. If that doesn't bother you for a week increase it by 5s, and do that every week or two until you're doing 40-45s holds. At that point dips should really be a pretty good idea. Just don't try and max out. 3-5 will probably be a good place to start, I like to be cautious and add a rep every week or two.

I don't know what too soon is, but I can guess that dips are too much right now. You will get too confident and push too hard, I think. I know I probably would. Some of this is guarding against your own excitement at being able to work out with dips again. I'm dealing with the same thing with my elbows and pull ups/muscle ups. My forearm muscles and tendons are still healing from all the muscling up in early September, so it's the waiting game for me as well. That's why, for now, I'm just focusing on building up my volume with easier stuff.

I tried PB supports today. I did a few warm-up ones but I didn't count the time, they were probably around 20s, not much.

After a little while I decided to see how long I could hold it. I was able to hold it for 60s. It was a little hard but no big deal, I still did it with perfect form. I felt I could have still gone for more time but I stopped at 60s.

So, what? I could go ahead with dips right now then?

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Joshua Naterman

If you can do that for a week and not feel anything in your chest I would think that dips are perfectly safe. See if any pain builds up in the chest. If you feel really confident, go ahead and start the dips. Just keep the volume low and increase it slowly!

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Crimsoncross

No good, I tried out some pb dips yesterday after like 3 1/2 months of not doing any and the pain just came back.

It's kinda different from before right now though, the pain. It's more like a pressure feeling, it doesn't really hurt when I turn sideways like it did before but it still bothers me a lot.

Someone told me that if i messed up a tendon or ligament or something like that that it takes like 6 months for the pain to go away, provided you don't do any exercise that hurts the area, and then 1-2 years for it to be 100% healed.

Well, i took like maybe 3 months of no dips, so should i just do that? Don't do any dips for a year?

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Alexander Moreen

I would suggest doing pushups against a wall to start. Find a height where they don't hurt or aggravate the injury and stick with that for a while.

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Crimsoncross
I would suggest doing pushups against a wall to start. Find a height where they don't hurt or aggravate the injury and stick with that for a while.

You mean like the ones in the book in which you are like horizontal? Aren't those wall planche pushups?

The pain is pretty much gone right now, well not really but it barely bothers me, I felt really bad in the morning but maybe because I was in class and it was kinda hot and I just wanted to go get some air but didn't; since the afternoon i've been fine.

What i did yesterday was, first, in the day, 5 sets of 5 bodyweight dips with 45s rest between sets. I could do them fine, so later, in the night, I did 5 sets of 6 reps and could do that too. I don't think i would've been able to do them with 7 reps, or if i could, i bet i would have barely done them and with a lot of effort. That's all i did for dips yesterday, just trying out after some months of not doing them at all. But i probably went too hard with that.

I don't know if i should try to do that but start out with like 4 reps or something, start out low. At the moment i feel fine but i don't know if i keep doing that it'll just keep getting worse and worse or if that will cure it in the long run.

EDIT: no type of pushups have ever bothered me, at least not HSPU's, PB pushups, ring pushups, declined regular etc. The problem just seems to be dips and the support position because going as wide as i could on the rings was what messed me up in the first place.

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Alexander Moreen

I actually meant the other way around; hands on wall, feet on floor. But if pushups don't hurt it at all then disregard I guess. Have you been doing any pushups while you were waiting the last 3 months? My idea was just to get some blood flow to your chest.

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Joshua Naterman

I think you are trying to do way too much volume for just starting back. 2-3 sets of submaximal dips once a day 2-3 times a week is plenty right now. Do that for 3-4 weeks and then bump up the reps to where you are closer to your limit for 3-4 weeks, and then start doing max reps on your last set of the day for 3-4 weeks. From there you can do 3-5 sets per day until you hit 5 sets if you like, there isn't a whole lot of purpose in doing more than that. This whole progression should take 4-6 months. At that point you should be adding weight 5 lbs at a time, not more than twice a month. I leave the details to you, but this is my general suggestion.

Of course if your chest is hurting you need to scale back to whatever doesn't hurt, and if that's just supports then you should just do supports for a while. I would suggest trying ring supports if you can handle them without pain, since PB is relatively easy for you. I would not attempt ring dips for at least 6 months, just to be safe.

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Crimsoncross
I actually meant the other way around; hands on wall, feet on floor.

I have no idea how you would do these lol.

Have you been doing any pushups while you were waiting the last 3 months? My idea was just to get some blood flow to your chest.

Yes, I was always doing pushups the whole time, they never bothered me. The only thing I stopped doing completely were dips and ring supports.

You would think ring pushups would bother me because the support position at the top is kinda similar, at least i think it is, and i even go a little wide sometimes when holding it, but somehow it doesn't bother me at all.

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Crimsoncross
I think you are trying to do way too much volume for just starting back. 2-3 sets of submaximal dips once a day 2-3 times a week is plenty right now. Do that for 3-4 weeks and then bump up the reps to where you are closer to your limit for 3-4 weeks, and then start doing max reps on your last set of the day for 3-4 weeks. From there you can do 3-5 sets per day until you hit 5 sets if you like, there isn't a whole lot of purpose in doing more than that. This whole progression should take 4-6 months. At that point you should be adding weight 5 lbs at a time, not more than twice a month. I leave the details to you, but this is my general suggestion.

Of course if your chest is hurting you need to scale back to whatever doesn't hurt, and if that's just supports then you should just do supports for a while. I would suggest trying ring supports if you can handle them without pain, since PB is relatively easy for you. I would not attempt ring dips for at least 6 months, just to be safe.

Ok, i'll try that out, thanks.

I think last friday or something i tried a ring support, see where i was at and if it bothered me. I could hold it for 60s after almost a year of not doing it. I felt a little pressure on the sternum but it was no big deal, it didn't bother me like the dips did sunday, i mean monday morning.

We'll see how this thing goes.

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Blairbob

It's not a good idea to just try to start back where you used to be after 3, 6, 50 months.

Build up doing 1-2 sets of easier progressions before you hit your work set.

The load you are dealing with during ring pushups, even pseudo or bulgarian is not nearly the same amount as doing PB dips, bulgarian PB dips, ring dips, bulgarian ring dips, etc.

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Crimsoncross
It's not a good idea to just try to start back where you used to be after 3, 6, 50 months.

Build up doing 1-2 sets of easier progressions before you hit your work set.

That's what i'll do then.

Like i said i was able to do 5 sets of 6 reps, i think i could be able to squeeze out 5 sets of 7 reps but i'm not sure.

So with how many reps should i start? 4?

The load you are dealing with during ring pushups, even pseudo or bulgarian is not nearly the same amount as doing PB dips, bulgarian PB dips, ring dips, bulgarian ring dips, etc.

Oh :shock:

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Joshua Naterman

One final thought is that you may want to try partial ROM with your dips and slowly increase it as the weeks pass.

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Crimsoncross

Hey there.

The last 3 weeks or so the pain has almost disappeared; i no longer wake up feeling the pain like i did almost everyday (this would wear off after a while from waking up). I also haven't stopped exercising either, i've been working out all the time but of course anything but ring supports, dips, pb dips and supports.

I've been itching to try PB dips again because the bench dips i'm doing right now are getting too uncomfortable; today i added 22lbs to them so i'm now doing 66lbs and i still only did 1-2 reps less than with 25kg. I now have 4 plates on my legs and i could add even more weight than 66lbs but i'm scared either the wooden bench i do them on will break or something or the plates will fall to the side or on me or who knows what else could happen. Weighted PB dips would be so much easy because i have a dip belt.

I barely feel the pain and i have to turn very hard sideways now to barely feel it, normally i don't feel anything.

I was thinking of trying the dips this friday, i'll only do 5 sets. If all goes well i would only do them twice a week, since i just changed my routines when i found out i was doing too much.

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Joshua Naterman

You should only do 1 set. Start off slow and add a set each week.

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