Started by Crimsoncross, May 23, 2010 · 106 Replies · 41,413 Views
like the Coach said in the PL and FL progressions article: "you just won't be able to do it but you're not going to get injured", that's how I thought it was with all the rest.
There is a tremendous difference in the required physical preparation between FSP performed on the floor/parallets/single bar and even the most basic ring strength elements.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
Coach Sommer said:like the Coach said in the PL and FL progressions article: "you just won't be able to do it but you're not going to get injured", that's how I thought it was with all the rest.There is a tremendous difference in the required physical preparation between FSP performed on the floor/parallets/single bar and even the most basic ring strength elements.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
Yes, that's why I said I thought it was that way even with the rings, but of course it isn't.
I tried doing pullups and chinups today to see if they bothered me, because I can't stand doing nothing anymore, and they don't, and then I tried doing dips in the space where the attic stairs go because I only have the rings and I didn't want to get on them yet, and it turns out they don't bother my chest either, I actually felt a teeney bit less pain after doing them when I moved sideways to compress the chest, so I'll just try and go with these 2 exercises for now, see if a little poison helps like Blairbob said.
I did feel a little sort of pressure in my chest after I did them, it was harder to breathe, but it's not the same pain.
Well, actually it is the same pain, just less. Less!
Blairbob said:Well, actually it is the same pain, just less. Less!
Well, what I meant was that I felt less pain after I did them when I triggered the pain (not that I felt less pain from doing the exercise or something like that), because normally it doesn't hurt, like I said only when I turn and twist the chest and things like that; and the pressure that I felt after I did them was very different, like if it inflated a bit.
Those creams don't do anything you say?
No idea, I've never used any or looked into it or heard any feedback when it comes to fixing anything like tendon or bone issues.
Yep, even basic PB support and dips and upper arm work besides ring strength work will tax the connections of the breastbone. I've heard horror stories about incidents with young gymnasts but many adults occur similar strain (though I haven't heard of any having such severe injuries).
A better idea is to just work RTO plank/pushup/prone supports. See how these feel. I remember I had to start at the ground up, including PB supports though I never had to limit myself to only straight arm planks.
Blairbob said:Those creams don't do anything you say?No idea, I've never used any or looked into it or heard any feedback when it comes to fixing anything like tendon or bone issues.
Yep, even basic PB support and dips and upper arm work besides ring strength work will tax the connections of the breastbone. I've heard horror stories about incidents with young gymnasts but many adults occur similar strain (though I haven't heard of any having such severe injuries).
A better idea is to just work RTO plank/pushup/prone supports. See how these feel. I remember I had to start at the ground up, including PB supports though I never had to limit myself to only straight arm planks.
I wouldn't want to get on the rings just yet, even for pushups, because I think they bother me. I did a few some days ago, just to try, but I don't know right now, we'll see.
But, do you think that, doing some exercise might actually help and make it heal faster? Or would it be best to just wait it out doing nothing at all?
I've tried to do nothing and yes the pain was less but it didn't get any better.
Thus I had to use a little bit of poison to cure myself.
Too much will kill you or put you back into the bed or on the couch, i.e. out of action.
Try the pushup from your knees if necessary or get on something stable like PB or regular floor pushups.
Blairbob said:I've tried to do nothing and yes the pain was less but it didn't get any better.Thus I had to use a little bit of poison to cure myself.
Too much will kill you or put you back into the bed or on the couch, i.e. out of action.
Try the pushup from your knees if necessary or get on something stable like PB or regular floor pushups.
Today, I will first go with a set of pullups and dips, see how that goes, and then later, I'll try some declined pushups.
Handstands and HSPU's mess me up right now, I really feel the pain with those, so I won't do any yet.
Getting on the rings again is obviously out of the question, even for very short periods of time, I'm not even going to try that.
I haven't tried the frog stand yet, but I suspect it could do more damage than good.
Dips seem to really help, for some reason, so I'll keep doing those. I did 6 before I went to bed last night (which is the max I can do right now because I haven't done any for like 6 months).
Blairbob said:I doubt any ointments will help.
What about those icy/hot patches of the shaq commercial? Those any good?
Blairbob said:I've tried to do nothing and yes the pain was less but it didn't get any better.Thus I had to use a little bit of poison to cure myself.
Too much will kill you or put you back into the bed or on the couch, i.e. out of action.
Try the pushup from your knees if necessary or get on something stable like PB or regular floor pushups.
I started doing pushups again 3 days ago, and they don't bother me anymore. I've only done them declined with my feet elevated though, I haven't tried on the rings yet.
So these last few days I've just being doing pullups, dips and pushups. The pain has gotten better but it's still there; I have more ROM than I did before I started exercising and it feels like sometimes the pain moves around: where it hurts the most is still right in the center but like I said sometimes I feel it more to the right.
Which would you say is the best exercise I could do to make it go away quicker? Minimal rings holds, like you did? Ring pushups?
Hard to say. We both are different. Start off with the ring pushup supports and test pushups. Test the minimal ring support holds. It's not a clearly defined method but I was at wit's end.
I was about 165@5+ with an armspan of about 5.5'. I had built up to some ok ring strength but nothing stellar compared to what I used to do 5+ years ago which still wasn't anything special. I was also working on long straps rings which of course made things harder besides doing max effort strict and swinging dips besides seeing if I could do russian and korean dips. Dip crazy stupidity.
I was doing ballpark 15-20 dips then besides being able to do my MU but I had not tried it weighted or wide arm though I could do a forward roll to MU and bulgarian dips.
Blairbob said:Hard to say. We both are different. Start off with the ring pushup supports and test pushups. Test the minimal ring support holds. It's not a clearly defined method but I was at wit's end.I was about 165@5+ with an armspan of about 5.5'. I had built up to some ok ring strength but nothing stellar compared to what I used to do 5+ years ago which still wasn't anything special. I was also working on long straps rings which of course made things harder besides doing max effort strict and swinging dips besides seeing if I could do russian and korean dips. Dip crazy stupidity.
I was doing ballpark 15-20 dips then besides being able to do my MU but I had not tried it weighted or wide arm though I could do a forward roll to MU and bulgarian dips.
Yeah, you got injured differently, with dips, me with supports. But you didn't start doing dips until when? You said you started with ring supports, which wasn't how you got injured, so I wouldn't strictly see it as poison if you do exercises which weren't the ones that got you injured. Using a little poison would be doing the same exercise that got you injured, not different ones, but that's just what I think.
I'm too scared to get on the rings yet. I'm afraid it might make it worse, even if I get on for a few seconds. And I wouldn't know if I should simply get on, or go as wide as I can, or turn out the rings and go wide, I don't know. Simply getting on like I'm going to do dips probably wouldn't affect me, since I've been doing dips obviously (but not on the rings).
What's the science here? Doing the same exercise that caused the injury at a lower intensity will strengthen it over time?
The dips and the pushups I'm doing are certainly building my chest, but I don't think they get in the center, directly in the sternum where the pain is.
You are attempting to train through the healing process. This is a mistake. All it will accomplish in the long run is to delay the process.
My recommendation is that you use this time to focus on other areas of conditioning that do not utilize the injured area.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
Dipping and supports on rings can cause tears in the sternum. Both stress the sternum. Even doing them on Parallel Bars can do that as well as Upper-Arm supports. You get injured during wide ring wide straight arm supports. I did upon doing an inordinate amount of dipping, including plyometric dipping coupled with challenging dip variations for myself.
Note on 4-14-2009, I noted chest soreness and the beginning of the sternum tear. I gave myself a clean bill of health on 6-5-2009.
On 5-22, I was able to do PB dips (dips on barstools) without any problem. On the 15th, I was able to do 3 PB dips. (1 month later) It wasn't a matter of not being able to do them, but at that point I felt comfortable. Bare in mind, my ME PB dips was probably 20-30 before all of that. On 5-4-2009, supports were fine on PB but dips were not, nor were even basic baby swings on PH or PB.
The point of detailing all of this is that it was about a month before I was able to support myself even on a set of PB. Back then, I may have been able to do wide arm supports as I would occasionally work crosses on my cross trainers.
So after a month and a half then I started doing the short ring support holds. It would have healed faster if I omitted the BL work but I scaled it down back then to the point it wasn't trying (like doing it in a tuck position).
Coach Sommer said:You are attempting to train through the healing process. This is a mistake. All it will accomplish in the long run is to delay the process.My recommendation is that you use this time to focus on other areas of conditioning that do not utilize the injured area.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
So doing any other upper-body exercises that don't bother me is ok? Like Blairbob said dips affect the sternum, but they don't bother me at all when I do them, and they actually made me feel a little bit better.
This has me worried Coach. Tomorrow it's going to be exactly 3 weeks since I did the supports and the pain started, and it doesn't look like it wants to go away. Maybe that's just what I think but it will go away, I don't know. Maybe 3 weeks isn't too much time, I don't know.
I've just limited myself to dips, pullups and pushups, nothing else. But today and yesterday I was moving some heavy things and that triggered the pain again.
What about the icy/hot patches? Would that help?
Tomorrow it's going to be exactly 3 weeks since I did the supports and the pain started, and it doesn't look like it wants to go away.
While it has been three weeks chronologically, it has not been three full weeks of healing time due to the additional upper body workouts.
There is no escaping the inevitable. Work legs. Work core. But allow the injury to rest and heal without further aggravation.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
Coach Sommer said:While it has been three weeks chronologically, it has not been three full weeks of healing time due to the additional upper body workouts.
You're right. And I think 2 or 1 days later when I stopped getting on the rings because of the pain (saturday 22 was the last day I got on them, so this was either monday or tuesday), I did 5 sets of chinups and HSPU's, and the latter really bothered me but I still completed them, although I did 1 or 2 reps less because the pain wouldn't let me.
Coach Sommer said:There is no escaping the inevitable. Work legs. Work core. But allow the injury to rest and heal without further aggravation.
That's what I've been doing, although I'd like to do l-sits for core but I haven't tried if they bother me yet. I would either do them on the rings or on the pushup bars.
But back to what I had asked you: is it ok if I still do upper-body exercises that don't bother me? As I said dips and pullups don't bother me.
But back to what I had asked you: is it ok if I still do upper-body exercises that don't bother me? As I said dips and pullups don't bother me.
I, in that time period continued to work HeSPU and Pullups and levers and planche (on floor) besides HS. I could even work MU into the transition but it was the support that hurt (not the MU).
Looking back at it, it would have better to just stay off it; but when in doubt, I tend to be dumb. I could have healed up possibly much quicker instead of a month and a half maybe 2-3 weeks before starting the rehab process instead of stretching it out to 6-7 weeks.
If you are concerned about your L-sit, I'd work holding your V-up position for time. You could also work seated pike leg lifts for time. Sit on butt, hands by knees and hold heels up for time like an L-sit.
I may be having to do the same thing for my shoulder soon. I'm not sure if it's a lack of working mobility or that the joint needs time off as I've just started doing the shoulder mobility stuff I was doing again (and more from the GB seminar).
If you look at the post of George at the stickie here at ring strength you will see that after 3 weeks off(due to a rotator cuff) he almost lost no strength , and we are talking of a ring gold medalist at the European cup!! :shock: .
omegant said:If you look at the post of George at the stickie here at ring strength you will see that after 3 weeks off(due to a rotator cuff) he almost lost no strength , and we are talking of a ring gold medalist at the European cup!! :shock: .
Don't take this the wrong way, but what you said makes no sense.
If your point was that he's very good/strong/whatever since he took 3 weeks off and lost no strength as you said, then what you said would make sense, but I don't know why you would say that given the subject of this thread which isn't about that.
But if what you wanted to say was that even he (a ring gold medalist at the European cup) took 3 weeks off and lost almost all his strength, it would make sense because you would be saying that if someone such as him (a gold medalist) would lose almost all his strength in 3 weeks, someone like me would obviously be worse off (a simple fitness enthusiast).
So, what did you want to say? 'Cause as it stands, I don't get it.
Blairbob said:But back to what I had asked you: is it ok if I still do upper-body exercises that don't bother me? As I said dips and pullups don't bother me.I, in that time period continued to work HeSPU and Pullups and levers and planche (on floor) besides HS. I could even work MU into the transition but it was the support that hurt (not the MU).
Looking back at it, it would have better to just stay off it; but when in doubt, I tend to be dumb. I could have healed up possibly much quicker instead of a month and a half maybe 2-3 weeks before starting the rehab process instead of stretching it out to 6-7 weeks.
If you are concerned about your L-sit, I'd work holding your V-up position for time. You could also work seated pike leg lifts for time. Sit on butt, hands by knees and hold heels up for time like an L-sit.
I may be having to do the same thing for my shoulder soon. I'm not sure if it's a lack of working mobility or that the joint needs time off as I've just started doing the shoulder mobility stuff I was doing again (and more from the GB seminar).
So the "maybe a bit of poison would help" thing actually stalled the healing? You said it helped you.
I am sure doing the ring supports after the month and a half is what helped them heal after that.
Doing the HeSPU and pullups and levers probably lengthened the amount of time it took to heal. These things did not directly irritate or aggravate my chest but they would have hampered the healing process and speed/rate thereof.
What I mean is that you can stay without training for a month and loose no strength(or almost) in the moves that you don´t train, even George(although his problem is a different one) who is at pike of his strength lost almost nothing (I asked him about this and expected more strength drain but...). I´ll do what Coach Sommers says and avoid a chronic injury.
Read the post
Blairbob said:I am sure doing the ring supports after the month and a half is what helped them heal after that.Doing the HeSPU and pullups and levers probably lengthened the amount of time it took to heal. These things did not directly irritate or aggravate my chest but they would have hampered the healing process and speed/rate thereof.
Well 3 more weeks and it's going to be a month and a half for me, and who knows if I'm going to be fine by then. It's been 2 weeks exactly the same, with no signs of improvement (only when I did dips, but I haven't done in the last 2 days. Today I will).
omegant said:What I mean is that you can stay without training for a month and loose no strength(or almost) in the moves that you don´t train, even George(although his problem is a different one) who is at pike of his strength lost almost nothing (I asked him about this and expected more strength drain but...). I´ll do what Coach Sommers says and avoid a chronic injury.Read the post
Ok now I get it.